Getting a very dark finish on Walnut

[Jerome Hanby]

I'm going to take a shot at building a replica of a Seth Thomas Drop Octagon 8 day clock. I want it to look like the one my grandmother had. Looking at some pictures online, I think it was probably made from Walnut and it was stained to be very dark, in my memory almost black, but it had been my Grandmothers for more than a few decades, so I'm sure it had darkened over the years. Attached is a picture I found online that matches my memory. What would be the best finish to give me a deep very dark color/

Thanks!





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[Scott Holmes]

Walnut is one of the few woods that actually lightens with age; generally it doesn't get darker.

That clock could be walnut, mahogany or most likely some lessor wood made to look dark.

Your grandparent's clock may have been mahogany.

Walnut and mahogany both take stain and dye very well. I would use dye so I didn't hide any of the grain.

[Jerome Hanby]

I was looking at more pictures and I think you could be right, mahogany looks like a better guess. Think I've seen a dye color called Espresso that looks like a good start. Any recommendations on a brand or Transtint recipe to get that color?

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Walnut reacts well with Ferrous sulfate. It will ebonize the wood nicely. You can also use the old time tested method of ripping up some steel wool and soaking it in white vinegar. That will give the same results. Try it on scrap wood.
faust

[Jerome Hanby]

Wow, I found a link to the JoeWoodworker site that talked about this mixture and showed some before and after results with Walnut. I'm just mad scientist enough to want to give this a try.


Walnut reacts well with Ferrous sulfate. It will ebonize the wood nicely. You can also use the old time tested method of ripping up some steel wool and soaking it in white vinegar. That will give the same results. Try it on scrap wood.
faust

[Jim Rimmer]

Jerome, I just used dye for the first time and I'm really pleased with the way you can control the color. Just get some cheap measuring spoons and a measuring cup and take good notes on your mix and I think you will like what you can do with it.

[Scott Holmes]

Walnut reacts well with Ferrous sulfate. It will ebonize the wood nicely. You can also use the old time tested method of ripping up some steel wool and soaking it in white vinegar. That will give the same results. Try it on scrap wood.
faust

This is an old school method; before they had all the wonderful; more colorfast, more consistent, dyes that we have today. Dyes will give you better and more consistent color.

[Lee Schierer]

I'm going to take a shot at building a replica of a Seth Thomas Drop Octagon 8 day clock. I want it to look like the one my grandmother had. Looking at some pictures online, I think it was probably made from Walnut and it was stained to be very dark, in my memory almost black, but it had been my Grandmothers for more than a few decades, so I'm sure it had darkened over the years. Attached is a picture I found online that matches my memory. What would be the best finish to give me a deep very dark color/

Thanks!





218149
It's probable that your Grandmother's clock was finished with shellac which turned dark over time to become nearly black. If you were to remove the shellac the walnut under it would be the same brown color we see today.

[Jerome Hanby]

It's probable that your Grandmother's clock was finished with shellac which turned dark over time to become nearly black. If you were to remove the shellac the walnut under it would be the same brown color we see today.

I'm definitely pro-shellac. Is there a good method to get that dark look with shellac. Other than dyeing then top coating, I can figure out that one <g>.

[Jerome Hanby]

This is an old school method; before they had all the wonderful; more colorfast, more consistent, dyes that we have today. Dyes will give you better and more consistent color.


Do you have a commendation for a dye (or a recipe) to get that dark color? I'm totally up for spraying a dye then top coating with Shellac...

[Scott Holmes]

Shellac is colorfast! it does NOT darken over time as varnish does. It may pick up some dirt, grease and grime but the shellac doesn't darken.

TransTint dyes and TransFast dye work well. You can also add [EDIT:] TransTint dyes to shellac to make a "toner" to spray on the project.

[Jerome Hanby]

Shellac is colorfast! it does NOT darken over time as varnish does. It may pick up some dirt, grease and grime but the shellac doesn't darken.

TransTint dyes and TransFast dye work well. You can also add Transfast dyes to shellac to make a "toner" to spray on the project.

So If I wanted a really dark almost black but not quite finish, would I use the Dark Walnut with a higher concentration of dye in the mix?

[Todd Burch]

I like ML Campbell's Acetone based Dyes. MICROTON is their trade name. Spray only. Whatever color - the more you put on - the darker it gets. No stain required, but can be used with stains. Another option is a pigmented lacquer - you can get any color you want, pretty much. Two coats, maybe 3, you're done. It's ready to shoot out of the can too (speaking for ML Campbell products, anyway).

Todd

[Jim Rimmer]

So If I wanted a really dark almost black but not quite finish, would I use the Dark Walnut with a higher concentration of dye in the mix?
I will defer to Scott if he comments, but, yes, you would increase the ratio of the dye to the alcohol/water to make it darker. Is there a Woodcraft near you? Look at Jeff Jewitt's site for colors and then visit WC to get a look at the dyes. They all look dark because they are concentrated. make a sample board, log your dilution ratios and find one you like.

[Scott Holmes]

Jerome,

Go look at the pictures of the walnut in my album... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=349&attachmentid=172850 This walnut was 30% sapwood when I got to the job site.

TransTint Dark Walnut in alcohol; sprayed (no wiping) then sealed with dewaxed garnet shellac, then top coated.

I used ~ 2-1/2 oz per gallon of alcohol. You can make it in smaller batches. You don't need to get the darkness in one shot. Using dye allows multiple coats; each making the wood darker... because there is no binder in dye to seal the wood. You can also add a stain after the dye, if needed or wanted.

[John Coloccia]

Shellac is colorfast! it does NOT darken over time as varnish does. It may pick up some dirt, grease and grime but the shellac doesn't darken.

TransTint dyes and TransFast dye work well. You can also add Transfast dyes to shellac to make a "toner" to spray on the project.

One small thing, Scott. I think TransTint dyes are generally better in shellac than TransFast. Transtint can basically mix in anything except oils. There are two different Transfast dyes: water soluble and alcohol soluble, and I think they're phasing out the alcohol soluble ones. Transtint is happy in water, alcohol (i.e. shellac), lacquer and acrylic (i.e. waterborne "lacquer").

Was that just a typo or have you actually had good results using the water soluble Transfast in shellac? I've never tried it.

[Jerome Hanby]

Thanks for the pics and the mix, exactly what I was looking for!


Jerome,

Go look at the pictures of the walnut in my album... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=349&attachmentid=172850 This walnut was 30% sapwood when I got to the job site.

TransTint Dark Walnut in alcohol; sprayed (no wiping) then sealed with dewaxed garnet shellac, then top coated.

I used ~ 2-1/2 oz per gallon of alcohol. You can make it in smaller batches. You don't need to get the darkness in one shot. Using dye allows multiple coats; each making the wood darker... because there is no binder in dye to seal the wood. You can also add a stain after the dye, if needed or wanted.

[Matt Day]

I've only used it for test pieces so far, but have been very happy with Fiebling's Leather Dye. I'm going for black, so am using USMC black and it has worked great. Go to your local leather craft store and you'll see there are lots of colors to choose from if you're not going for a true black. Cheap too - I got unpackaged jars of it for $2.50, which is plenty to do your clock.

[Scott Holmes]

John, Good eyes that is a typo. TransTint in shellac... I don't think TransFast would work well at all.