is there a logical reason to have a wagon vise AND a twin-screw end vise?

[Zach England]

I have been agonizing over this upcoming bench build for months now. I thought I had ti finalized, planning a leg vise as the face vise, a wagon vise as one end vise and a twin-screw as the other end vise.

I really am set on the leg vise because this bench will be very short and the twin-screw will take up too much of the front edge. I am also really set on the twin-screw for end-grain tasks.

I had planned on putting the wagon vise on the right side (with the leg vise on the left) in traditional fashion and adding the twin-screw to the left of the leg vise as sort of an extra. I have always loved the elegance of the wagon vise and how it is all contained below the bench top. I also like the idea of not having to extend a vise over the edge of the bench when it might not be clamped completely tight since my current end vise sags a little bit when it gets extended two-three inches. This is why I wanted the wagon vise. I admit it is also because I can re-purpose the end vise hardware I currently have.

Am I missing the boat completely? Is there any reason not to eliminate the wagon vise and move the twin-screw to the right end of the bench?

[Trevor Walsh]

It just doesn't seem practical unless you have a demonstrable and regular clamping job that needs it. Don't take me as being argumentative, but what is the benefit of that arraignment?

[Zach England]

That's what I am thinking. I have been going through operations I do or might do and deciding if there is one the wagon vise can do that the twin-screw cannot. I can't think of one, but am looking for others' input. Thanks for replying.

For folks with the Veritas twin-screw:

In your experience is there any sag when it is extended without having a piece clamped firmly between the jaws? Sometimes when I am planing the faces of long boards I will extend my end vise but not tighten it down more than necessary out of fear of bowing the board, and in my current arrangement my tail vise sags a bit when doing this.

[Eric Brown]

Hi Zack. My twin scew does not sag or drop at all when opening. The reason is simple. The nuts the screws go into act like a teeter-todder. The weight of the screws on one end and the movable jaw and hardware on the other. On mine, I have a movable jaw that is 28" wide by 8" high by 2 1/2" thick. It is mostly walnut with a maple face. Another words, it is heavier than the screws.
Therefore - no drop. Another way to limit the dropping is putting strips of UHMW or maple between the top of screws and the bench. Putting a taper on the face (thicker top than bottom) can also help keep pressure even.

Eric

[Bill Haumann]

The twin screw also serves to extend your bench length if needed, which the wagon vise cannot.

[David Kumm]

Zack, it's your bench so do what you want. A wagon and leg vise handle all my needs but life dictates that you will get used to what you have. If you want both go for it as you can build a wagon vise for next to nothing. A moxon would be an alternative to the twin screw as well. Opinions on the Veritas vs the LN would be good info. Dave

[Zach England]

I am really leaning towards the twin screw with leg vise sans wagon vise.

[Ken Parris]

Zach, I recently finished a new Roubo bench that I installed a leg vise on the left and a homemade wagon vise on the right. I really like it and enjoy using it. However, I built that bench to get a lower one strickly for hand planing, my other Roubo is a little high for me to handplane, but is a good height for other handwork and assembly. That bench has a patternmakers vise on the left and a LV Twin Screw on the right. That combination worked well for me also. As David has said whichever you choose you will make work for you. If I were building a new bench and it was my only bench I would use the leg vise on the left with a sliding deadman, a wagon vise on the right, and as David mentioned make a Moxon for dovetail work. That way your dovetail vise would be at a better height for you, more comfortable. My oldest bench which now is mostly an outfeed for the TS and the BS has a leg vise (an actual antique original, not cheap way to go) on the right corner, I can't remember why I did that.

Ken

[Zach England]

I understand all the arguments about the height and the moxxon vise, but for me this is moot because I do all detailed work sitting down on an adjustable stool. I can easily bring myself to the right level.

[Mike Holbrook]

I sort of came full circle on the Moxon idea last night. I was about to order Benchcrafted hardware and make one. Then I saw the capacity of the Benchcrafted screws was 2 1/4" vs 12 +" for Veritas or Havarter single or twin screw vises. I started realizing there are advantages and disadvantages to a vise mounted on top of ones bench. I started asking myself how convenient; clearing space, assembling and disassembling the mobile vise every time I wanted to use it was going to be long term. What if I want to use the top of my bench while I use the Moxon, how bad will it be in my way there...A Veritas or Havarter twin screw vise can actually add 12" to my bench tops capacity, but only when I need it. If I mount a Veritas or Havarter on the end of my bench I also get a gigantic tail vise and or work stop by just adding a couple dogs.

I'm not even sure a Moxon has a real height advantage either. Clamping a work rest either in the wider twin vise jaws with the work piece or to the bench top can provide the same higher work resting point. The jaws are lower on the twin screws but these vises are made to clamp tall not short work. Short work can be clamped in most any vise. I'm not saying the Moxon is a bad vise. I'm just thinking the twin screws have their unique assets as well.

The other thing I have been wondering about Ken mentioned. Why do right handed people put their vise on the left hand side of their bench? Why don't I want my vise on the same side of the bench as my dominant hand?

[Curt Putnam]

Face vise is on the left because it's primary duty is to hold long boards for edge work. Righties plane with right hand - from right to left. Think crochet and sliding deadman. Face work is handled with stops or wagon vise (or functional equivalent) while twin screws are designed for end grain work. There is considerable capability overlap in modern vises.

I'm coming off the idea of a wagon vise and coming back to a metal quick-release vise with big wood chop in the tail vise position. I need a bench top (Moxon) vise for my detail work simply because I can't function all bent over - at least for sawing. So, for the moment, my configuration is leg vise on the face, QR on the tail, and Moxon-ish for the end work. A twin screw would be nice in the tail except for two reasons: I don't know of any that are quick-release and that would put the hard ware cost at close to a grand - at which I shudder.

[Richard Francis]

You might want to look at Patrick Edwards video on his bench to reassure you or make you change your mind.
http://woodtreks.com/design-build-traditional-woodworking-workbench-tail-shoulder-leg-vises/1651/

[Zach England]

So I have decided. As much as I love the wagon vise I am not going to use one in this build. I am going to do my leg vise, a sliding deadman and a Veritas Twin-screw as the end vise.

Now the issue is deciding on metal vs. wood screw for the leg vise, but there's another thread for that.

[Jim Koepke]

I have pondered this for my bench and it all depends on how much extra cash is on hand at the time it comes together.

If the funds appear to buy wagon vise hardware my plan is to make it so the handle hardware is easy to remove. This way a regular or in Zach's case a twin screw vise could be installed on the same end. For me, the tail vise is often used for holding smaller work for cutting or planing.

Most likely my bench will end up being built without a wagon vise.

One of my plans is to have an apron. One idea is to have dog holes in the apron for using holdfasts. Another idea is to have threaded holes in the apron to allow for various ways to make my own twin screw using wooden screws. This would also allow for the use of single fulcrum arms to work like clamps for holding pieces vertically. This is something that is planned for a mock up in the next few months for a "proof of concept."

jtk