Foot brake or a motor brake

[Rick Cicciarelli]

Looking at the 17" Grizzly bandsaws. What is generally considered 'better': foot brake or a motor brake? Also, I notice that they have two variations of the foot brake 17" bandsaws now....one that just says "foot brake" and the other which is labeled as "Foot brake with micro switch." What is this micro switch vs. just a plain foot brake?

[Peter Quinn]

The mico switch will turn off the saws motor when depressed, the other probably will not. This is nice in an emergency situation, or for just basic set ups when you want to stop the wheel quickly.

I have never used a BS with a motor break, but we have a few tools at work with motor brakes and I really like that feature. So unless its cost prohibitive it seems like a decent option to me.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

Actually looking at the website in a little further detail it seems that the "motor" brake version is the most expensive. But then there is the "foot brake with micro switch" version which apparently has a motor brake which is either engaged when you turn it off, or when the foot brake pedal is activated. This seems like the best of all, but I don't understand why it is actually LESS expensive than the version that ONLY has a motor brake.

[David Kumm]

Does anyone know what type of motor brake is used? There are DC injection brakes and brakes that apply friction to an arbor on the backside of the motor to slow it down. There is a lot of inertia to overcome so I would check if there is a limit to how often they can be activated in a given period of time. Many euro machines have DC brakes and many are undersized so they crap out after a while. I would go with a simple footbrake and micro switch and spend the extra money on a heavier saw. Seems like Grizzly makes ranges from about $800-2800 in the same sizes. Dave

[Peter Quinn]

Actually looking at the website in a little further detail it seems that the "motor" brake version is the most expensive. But then there is the "foot brake with micro switch" version which apparently has a motor brake which is either engaged when you turn it off, or when the foot brake pedal is activated. This seems like the best of all, but I don't understand why it is actually LESS expensive than the version that ONLY has a motor brake.


I went to look at the Grizzly site, and I too am really scratching my head on that one. Looks like the same basic saw in several different formats. Why the breaking motor/foot pedal model is a bit cheaper than the motor brake only, I'll never guess? You get more, you pay less? Perhaps they had some extra breaking motors, they threw them on the frame set up with the foot brake, oops, better sell those out quick? Perhaps the chinese factory screwed up and put breaking motors on the models with the foot brakes, the mistake was discovered, they are selling them out cheaper? The whole "Lets you have two hands on the work piece and stop the saw with your foot" sales pitch makes sense if you are a fourth degree black belt wood worker who normally uses his bandsaw in the Fighting Crane stance, but otherwise it smells fishy to me. In an emergency the last thing I want to do is stand on one foot while both my hands are on the work piece. Plus, the BS doesn't kick back, so if things get weird, letting go is a pretty solid option, or using one hand to hold the work, the other to shut off the saw. But, it might be nice to be able to just tap the saw off with a toe at the end of a normal cut.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Peter,

I use the foot brake on my MM-16 all the time. I don't have to take my eyes off my hands and look or feel for the On/Off magnetic switch. I just step out with my right foot, depress the pedal..the blade stops and the motor shuts off.

Could I live without it? Of course! But I'd prefer not to live without it.

[Ryan Mooney]

I went with the traditional foot brake under the theory that it was less stuff to break. Its very simple/fixable and I can replace the motor easier/cheaper as well when it goes (assuming you wanted to replace the motor with another motor brake motor...). This was actually the deciding factor for me between the 513 and the 514, I could get the 513 with cast iron everything and a foot brake but couldn't get the 514 in the same config (at the time at least... in hindsight I probably should have just sprung the extra $$ for the B20 :rolleyes: ).

Maybe in 5 years I'll be kicking myself when all of the motor brakes are still working great and I was just overly paranoid and the foot brake has had some unexpected metal fatigue failure... or maybe not.. I certainly don't claim to know enough about motor brakes to know one way or another for sure .

[Fred Belknap]

I recently purchased the 17" Griz BS with the foot brake that has the micro switch. Before I purchased I called tech support and ask about the difference in weight between the f/b and the m/b models and he couldn't give me an answer. I went with the G513X2fb and I'm happy with it. It will stop the blade in 3 seconds or less but you need to put some pressure on it. The more I use the machine the better it works, probably wearing to fit the brake drum better. Sometimes I think their price is based on inventory.

[Van Huskey]

This is my post in the thread that started this:

Most newer saws that have foot brakes have a micro-switch, the micro switch cuts the power to the saw and lets you breake the saw to stop using just your foot. Some older saws do NOT have a micro-switch and you have to hit the stop button with your hand then brake the saw. With a micro-switch you get safety and production speed, without you just get production speed. Occasionally you see a saw advertised and they do not mention a micro-switch with the foot brake, if you want a micro-switch you may want to check since some actually have the switch it just isn't listed.

A motor brake that is just engaged via the off button is mainly a production speed enhancer, one tripped by a foot pedal also affords some safety along with production speed. I am not a fan of motor brakes because they take a couple of seconds to stop the saw, a GOOD machanical foot brake will stop a saw much quicker. My MM20 stops so fast it was scary the first time I used it.

Personally, I perfer the machanical foor brakes because they are cheaper and very simple and properly implemented ones are faster than any of the motor brakes I have seen. A motor brake that is just activated by the hand switch is the least appealing since I would have to take one hand off the work and be in a position to hit the switch.


Addition:

Based on the catalog this is what is going onn in the 513 line: after looking at the website and reading the catalog closer:

G0513X2 no brake $1095
G0513X2B motor brake (no foot control, controlled by the switch) $1295
G0513x2F foot brake alone, have to press stop then brake mechnically with the foot $1195 my guess is I am incorrect, it probably has a micro-switch even though it does not mention it
G0513x2BF foot brake w/micro switch stop with foot alone $1225 this one has a foot operated motor brake

Even with the comparison chart it is difficult to determine what the actual braking system is but maybe I am correct now. My confusion was aided by the fact in the catalog the 513x2B is more expensive than the 513X2BF which would seem unusual if the X2BF had both the motor brake with foot control (more for less usually doesn't happen). If one looks at the web site the pricing is different but the X2B is cheaper than the X2BF which makes more sense. I would like to see Grizzly spend some time and make a clear explanation of their 513 line. I think it is rather simple but they are leaving it a little confusing.

Out of those options for ME I would pick the G0513X2B, I want a foot operated brake with a micro-switch so I do not have to use my hands to stop the blade.

I have not used the 513 with a footbrake yet, but Fred's comment concerns me a little, a good foot brake should stop a bandsaw in well under a second all the Italian saws I have used and own take amazingly little pressure (see the MM video where it is stopped with one finger) and they slam the wheels to a stop that gives you the impression that if the saws weren't so heavy they would bounce across the floor. I see three seconds as a production speed issue, useful for not having to wait minutes for the wheels to wind down but outside what I would consider much help in the safety arena. If it truely takes near 3 seconds to bring the saw to a stop I would suggest Fred's brake may need some fine tuning or the lining needed some initial prep but when I have replaced brake linings on other saws they worked perfectly after a couple of initial "stops"

edits in red

[John Coloccia]

B models have an electronic brake (i.e a dynamic brake). It activates when you shut off the bandsaw.
BF models add a foot switch that shuts off the band saw...it's still a dynamic brake
F models have a mechanical foot brake...there is also a microswitch that shuts off the saw when you hit the foot brake.

I have an F model 514X2. It works fine, but not nearly as well as the MM brake. I suspect the electric brake works at least as quickly as the mechanical brake on these saws.

The only option I would NOT have in a saw this size is no brake. It takes absolutely FOREVER for the saw to spin down, especially with a large blade. There is just no way I'm going to sit there and wait for this thing to spin down between setups, and I'm certainly not going to leave a bandsaw spinning unattended. A brake of some kind is pretty much mandatory for me.

[Peter Quinn]

Ok, Now I'm scratching my head and butt at the same time on this one. Reading the comments, thinking on it. Its a band saw we are discussing here no? Why must I have two hands on the work and a foot switch to panic stop the saw? Why must I stop the saw in under 1 second? I've cut some pretty big curves on some pretty long material, and as long as I stage it up, doing it alone is not a problem. I've actually had a full 4X8 sheet with a few cut outs for standing/feeding on each end of a 20" saw to catch the weight and cut maybe 75-100 pieces of work over 12' long this way. Never needed to "Keep both hands on the work and stop the saw". You can stop the cut just by not pushing. If you are cantilevering something very long near the end of a cut and it gets away from you, then you are already doing something silly, and I've been there too. But almost every cut I can think of on a BS is a through cut, or a very shallow stop cut that you can generally back out of under power if properly executed. Can someone describe for the me a situation where the blade is engaged in the work and the saw must be stopped quickly, and taking your hands off the work would prove perilous? The scariest thing I've encountered is blade breakage, and the brake doesn't help you much there, because no matter how hard you push on it, it won't stop the top wheel, you still have to listen to that awful sound as the spinning upper wheel spins its way slowly to a stop.

I have accommodations for panic stops on my RAS, my shaper, my TS, not brakes mind you, but a way to cut power without using my hands, and I have needed every single one of them at some point. But the BS? Really? Mine has a very aggressive foot brake with micro switch, I may push it when I I'm too lazy to reach for the button at the end of a cut, or when I don't want to wait for it to wind down to adjust the fence or set up. Maybe a micro switch with a big button on the middle of the upper wheel cover would be better, that way I could keep both hands on the work, both feet on the floor in my "Sturdy BS stance" and just head butt the thing to turn it off. Tim Taylor style!

I see the motor brake being useful in a busy multi person shop. I work in one. The biggest BS has a foot brake, no micro switch. Nobody ever uses that brake. Often you can walk past the saw just after somebody else has finished using it, its right in a main traffic corridor, and its still spinning, it spins for a while. And if the last guy had the guides up high that can be a lot of blade in play. I'm pretty sure the main reason for the brakes on many euro machines is to reduce injuries to users AND non users during wind down. There is a high enough percentage of work related injuries due to blade/cutter contact AFTER the power has been cut that they opted to solve that problem on all machine categories. Sort of like a car that turns its lights off automatically. In my home shop its just me, I have not reached the point where I can shut off the BS and forget that I was just using it and run into the blade. When or if I do I'll probably have bigger problems to deal with anyway. So the motor brake means less to me at home on a BS, though I would love to have that feature on my TS and shapers for sure.

[Van Huskey]

Peter, rarely do I find myself "out of place" or "two handed" with contour cuts or rips for that matter but when resawing I tend to be beside the saw a lot with my hands both holding wood this is where the fllot brake comes into play for me. It depends on the type of cuts and the technique you use to make the cuts. For me the foot brake is a mandatory item for a saw over 14" and I tend to use mine on my 20" Delta without a micro-switch because the motor brake is rather slow on it, but that is just because I like the blade to be stopped before moving around much even though I am just a hobbyist. The footbrake on my MM is a pleasure to use and it gives me what I think is an extra measure of safety as well as a small amount of speed advantage, the latter is much less important to me than the former.

[John Coloccia]

Earlier last year, I was cutting a chunk out of a BIG, heavy piece of 16/4 Kaya (i.e. African Mahogany). The kerf closed up behind the blade. The piece was too long to simply turn and swing out of the cut. The original plan was to bandsaw a kerf, and then back it out of the cut. That became impossible and I ended up in a situation where I was absolutely stuck. I wasn't going to go forward and ruin a huge piece of wood. I couldn't go backwards. I couldn't turn. I couldn't let go of the piece because it weighed a ton and would have probably bent my blade guard/guide mounts. I was able to hit the footbrake with my foot and bring everything to a nice, controlled stop, though. Eventually, I had to contort and struggle to hang on to the piece while I got a screwdriver in there to open the kerf, but I would not have wanted to struggle getting a finger on the off switch with the blade spinning.

I even put a foot switch on my table mounted router. I sometimes use one with my hand routers too when the beginning or ending conditions of a cut require my full concentration.