Stanley plane frog screws

[Joseph Maxwell]

Hey guys,

First post here, just finished cleaning up a Stanley #7C (type 15) and had a question about the two screws/washers that attach the frog to the plane. How tight do they need to be? In the past, I've heaved them down pretty good, but I read somewhere that you could actually crack the screw housing if you got overzealous. While a torque value would be great, I was hoping y'all could give me some advice.

Great forum, by the way...I'm learning a lot, but might end up spending too much money fixing up these old planes. My wife's been giving me strange looks.

[Jim Koepke]

Joseph,

Welcome to the Creek. You do not have a location listed. You may live close to someone who would be willing to help you one to one.

Interesting that a quick look at torque specifications listed on the internet tend to not mention values for #12 screws let alone those with 20 threads/inch.

My suggestion would be about 4 foot pounds (45-50 inch pounds if that is how your tool is spec'ed.)

I usually just get them what can comfortably be turned with the proper size screw driver without forcing or straining.

Usually, they are tightened just to where the frog can moved for adjustment. Then carefully torqued after the adjustment is to my liking.

Hope this helps. If not and you live in the Portland, Oregon area I will be happy to pay a visit or have a visit.

jtk

[Joseph Maxwell]

Hey Jim, thanks for the info! It sounds as though I was over tightening them so I'm glad I asked.

I appreciate the offer to help out, but it may be a drive for you...I'm in Jackson, MS.

Have a good weekend.

[Joseph Maxwell]

Another newbie question if you don't mind...

I picked up a #5 Bailey for $3 at a flea market, it looks like a Type 13 and a rusty heap all at once. But that's ok--it disassembled just fine and will hopefully make a good user. It has a bent Fulton blade and, I suppose, the original Stanley chipbreaker which looks to be in good shape. I'm going to toss the Fulton blade and was looking at the 0.095" thick Lie-Nielsen blade as a replacement.

Is it worthwhile to get one of their chipbreakers as well or would the original suffice if solid contact is made near the edge of the blade?

[Andrew Teich]

Joseph,

I am a relative newbie as well. Watch this video. It may give you some insight on using your number 5 and about chipbreakers.
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/3100/3105.html

You might consider picking up this HD blade for 3 bucks and using it with your original chipbreaker for now.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?178908-A-few-pleasant-surprises-at-Home-Depot

Down the road you could purchase one of those replacement blades with chipbreaker to have on hand and have one cambered for heavy work and one flatter for smoothing if the #5 is your Jack and Smoothing plane.

[Jim Koepke]

My vote is with Andrew to watch the WoodWright's plane use video with Chris Schwarz.

I would keep the old blade if there is anything at all left. It can be cut down to make something else like a scratch stock. I have made a marking knife from a junker plane blade. Also on some of the old blades the majority of the blade is soft iron and the business end has a lamination of hard steel on the side that meets the wood. I have straitened a few and put them to use.

If the chip breaker is Okay, it will work fine with a new blade.

Heck, I may go by Home Depot next time I am in town to see if they have any of those $3 blades.

jtk

[Joseph Maxwell]

Good video, thanks for passing that on. I watch his show sometimes when it comes on at night and hear that he does a class or two in North Carolina.

I'll take a look at that blade at HD. I always figured you got what you paid for, but for $3 it may be worth picking up one and seeing how it does. The existing blade is bent at the top where someone probably dropped the plane, but looked to have a good bit of life left on it otherwise.

The lateral adjuster was bent as well and is pretty loose at the rivet--has about 1/8" vertical movement there. I straightened it out and will see how well it does when it's cleaned up and all back together.

I'll post a picture or two when it's finished...you know, everyone likes to brag sometimes!

Thanks for the help, guys, I appreciate it.

[Bill Houghton]

Torque value: one grunt.

[Mark Wyatt]

Torque value: one grunt.

Hmm, I usually go a grunt and a quarter, but to each his own.

[Joseph Maxwell]

So a grunt to a grunt and quarter, got it!

As for the $3 #5 that I picked up, an overnight soak in evaporust revealed a 1.5-inch crack on the side parallel to and just above where the frog seats. Oh well...$3 still isn't bad for a what has turned into a few spare parts.

[Jim Koepke]

As for the $3 #5 that I picked up, an overnight soak in evaporust revealed a 1.5-inch crack on the side parallel to and just above where the frog seats. Oh well...$3 still isn't bad for a what has turned into a few spare parts.

Depending on what is on the plane when you bought it, $3 was a pretty good price. If it had the tote and knob you are way ahead.

For me, if the plane has some parts, it is well worth taking a look for such a price.

jtk

[Joseph Maxwell]

Unfortunately, the tote and knob were missing but I had extras that I had intended to use.

For $3, I pretty much got a lever cap, large diameter lbrass depth adjuster, a chipbreaker and some frog screws with washers. The adjusting screw on the frog is frozen and the lateral adjuster has seen better days.

Could've done better, but could've done worse. Maybe I'll bump my budget up to $5 and see what I can find :)

[Jim Koepke]

Could've done better, but could've done worse. Maybe I'll bump my budget up to $5 and see what I can find

If there are any pawn shops in the area check them out. Sometimes the will negotiate on the price.

jtk

[Mike Brady]

Most people will tell you to snug down those screws, but there is at least one ww guru who recommends that you leave them just loose enough to be able to move the frog with the rear adjuster screw, while leaving the blade and lever cap in place. This allow you to make quick adjustments without disassembling the plane. It is the feature that made the Bedrock plane a big winner, but you can do it on the regular Bailey planes. I leave mine tight.
Overall you are right that soft cast iron found in planes does not favor high torqueing of any fastener. There is just enough... and then there's too much.

[Jim Koepke]

Overall you are right that soft cast iron found in planes does not favor high torqueing of any fastener. There is just enough... and then there's too much.

The same goes for lapping the sole. I have one plane that is at the point of almost being over lapped. There is a small round spot of darkness on the sole were the oil has penetrated the porous cast iron below one of the frog screws.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I found what looked like a minty no 7 at an antique shop - then I realized that someone had ground and polished the sides and sole back to fresh metal. And had really overdone it - the sides weren't anywhere near the same thickenss, and the one on the left was a lot thinner than any bailey I'd ever see towards the top.. ..