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View Full Version : Hand tool shipment lost .. what should I do ?



Rick Fisher
12-30-2011, 4:38 PM
Hello..

I ordered some chisels and a plane on November 3 of 2011.. I wont name the supplier because its not relevant.. they have been very helpful.

The order was shipped USPS and hit the border on the 5th of November..

The package sat in Canadian Customs for a month, at which time I was told to hire a customs broker to clear the package. I got an email from the broker on December 7th saying the package had cleared customs.

I also got a call from the retailer in the USA saying they had been asked for further information and supplied it, everything seemed okay and I should be receiving my goods soon.

Its 3 weeks later and no package. I called Canada Post and they suggested opening a claim for a lost package.

Its too bad, the package contained a Lie Nielsen plane (first one for me), 3 Tasai push chisels and a few simpler items..

I am not really sure what to do next ? Stuff happens.. I am irritated with this, but accept that there is nothing I can do about it.

I paid with a Visa Card.. its been almost 2 months.. not sure if that is relevant.. The supplier is reputable .. been around a long time .. The package has a tracking number .. It could be that Canada Post will actually find it too ..

What does someone do in this case ? Do you just wait ?

Chris Griggs
12-30-2011, 5:01 PM
Ouch! You still don't a have it. I am so frustrated for you. That hardcore sucks!!!!!

If they lost it, will the post office reimburse you? Is the package insured? I think most the handtool retailers insure their packages? I would go ahead and start the lost package claim process, assuming it doesn't take a lot of additional time or money. It may very well still turn up, but at this point I'd be inclined to file a claim.

Good luck with this Rick. Keep us posted

Brian Kent
12-30-2011, 5:08 PM
It sounds like you have taken the reasonable steps. I appreciate your protection of the identity of the supplier since they acted in good faith.

Recently UPS lost my lawn mower. It had checked in to the local distributor but was not seen after that. Home Depot's relationship was such that I could state that it was undelivered and cancel the order. Then I could re-buy the same thing with my money returned. I imagine that they were able to do this because of the size of their operation and the number of UPS orders they have. A smaller supplier might not be able to help in the same way.

You could certainly call the Visa customer service and ask them if they could help. Good luck to you. I am impressed that you have kept such a level head.

Brian

Chris Vandiver
12-30-2011, 5:25 PM
The supplier should be able to check on the whereabouts of the package by calling the 800# on the customs form they filled out with the USPS. The good thing about customs forms is that they function as a tracking tool. Your package is probably stuck in customs, somehow. You shouldn't have to get a broker to get your package, as far as I know. The supplier has some responsibility for this(they sold you the goods and shipped the goods via USPS)so hopefully they'll stay on top of it and do what is right. Have faith!

Joel Goodman
12-30-2011, 5:27 PM
I would think the supplier should resend the items or credit you with the amount. I always assume that unless specifically stated the supplier is responsible for losses in shipping and for insuring the package -- after all they are in the mail order business. In fact I had an item lost in shipment from LV and they sent me another. Months later the original package mysteriously appeared and I shipped it back to them. The paid for the return shipping. I assume that "shipping and handling" charges are designed to cover things like that. Failing a satisfactory resolution with the vendor I would ask Visa to cancel the charge -- after all you paid for something you didn't receive. You have been more than patient and if months from now the original package appears then it can be returned.

Chris Vandiver
12-30-2011, 5:40 PM
I am pretty sure I know which retailer shipped you your tools. From my experience with them, I would say you need to be persistent in getting them to make it right(ship out a replacement order or give you a full refund). You should contact your credit card company right away, there are time limits for filing a claim.

Mike Henderson
12-30-2011, 5:49 PM
I would think the supplier should resend the items or credit you with the amount. I always assume that unless specifically stated the supplier is responsible for losses in shipping and for insuring the package -- after all they are in the mail order business. In fact I had an item lost in shipment from LV and they sent me another. Months later the original package mysteriously appeared and I shipped it back to them. The paid for the return shipping. I assume that "shipping and handling" charges are designed to cover things like that. Failing a satisfactory resolution with the vendor I would ask Visa to cancel the charge -- after all you paid for something you didn't receive. You have been more than patient and if months from now the original package appears then it can be returned.
In the law, I'm pretty sure that the shipper only has responsibility to deliver the package to a common carrier. The risk of loss is then on the buyer (see here (http://barnespc.com/news-risk-loss-shipments-governed-ucc.php)). The buyer can pay for insurance if they want it and the seller then has to provide insurance. Of course, the shipper has to be able to prove that the package was actually delivered to the common carrier.

I've had problems shipping to Canada and generally will not do so any more because of the problems involved with Canada customs. When I do have to ship to Canada, I make sure the buyer knows that the risk of loss is on him or her, and I get a certificate of mailing from the post office to show that the package was actually delivered by me to the post office.

Mike

Jack Curtis
12-30-2011, 7:34 PM
...I've had problems shipping to Canada and generally will not do so any more because of the problems involved with Canada customs. When I do have to ship to Canada, I make sure the buyer knows that the risk of loss is on him or her, and I get a certificate of mailing from the post office to show that the package was actually delivered by me to the post office.

Same here, I hate Canadian customs. I sent a software package to a potential reseller gratis. The stupid customs guy called me, spent 15 of my minutes on whether I'd send him a free package, and on and on. Ultimately, they kept/trashed it, didn't inform me or my client, cost me about $100. After than, the only way I'd ship to Canada is via FedEx or UPS and charge extra postage.

Jack

Joel Goodman
12-30-2011, 7:51 PM
I've had problems shipping to Canada and generally will not do so any more because of the problems involved with Canada customs. When I do have to ship to Canada, I make sure the buyer knows that the risk of loss is on him or her, and I get a certificate of mailing from the post office to show that the package was actually delivered by me to the post office.

Mike

I'm not familiar with shipping to/from Canada, perhaps I should have said that. But if I was the OP I wouldn't have been so patient. I certainly would and do differentiate between a large established business (which I assume the OP was referring to) and an individual or one man shop. Was the OP told that loss during shipment was his headache?

Michael Moscicki
12-30-2011, 8:02 PM
That's why a lot of sellers don't ship internationally. Stuff will usually sit in customs(same goes for US, Canada, UK, you name it) for at least 2 weeks if not more. Sometimes it's the result of the seller not properly filling out the customs form. Other times, they just like to keep it in customs for no apparent reason. I don't know what they do with the package for so long.

I mean seriously. Just upon the package up. See what's inside and determine what the buyer has to pay in custom duties.

Chris Vandiver
12-30-2011, 8:02 PM
Really, for mail order retailers and especially online retailers, customer satisfaction is all important.

Steve Branam
12-30-2011, 8:34 PM
To echo what Chris Griggs said, Ouch! I don't know anything helpful, but I can at least lend moral support. I vaguely expected customs flow between the US and Canada to be smoother. Hire a broker to get your package released?!? Ugh!

Not to make light of your pain, but it does remind me of an episode when I was a new Boy Scout 40 years ago. I had saved up all my newspaper delivery earnings and ordered a down sleeping bag from the same outfit in New Zealand that had supplied Hillary. I was so excited (because in the mind of an 11-year-old, the wilds of suburban Pennsylvania are not so far removed from the Karakoram), but between snail mail to the other side of the globe and currency fluctuations, it took forever. Winter was long gone by the time I had made up the difference and received the sleeping bag. I think I got to use it once the next year on a real winter campout.

ray hampton
12-30-2011, 8:39 PM
I order some tools recent and UPS claim that it were delivery to my door but no package I could see so I reorder the tools , UPS deliver the package to one of my neighbors and the neighbors finally call UPS to pick the package up and deliver it to the correct address , the second package arrived the next day after I received the first package, I hope that your order matter are resolved

Joel Moskowitz
12-30-2011, 9:03 PM
I have no idea who your vendor is (not us) but as a retailer this is what we do for a living. You can't collect the insurance. The shipper (vendor) has to. You might have to provide a letter saying you didn't get the package but it's the shippers job. Contact the vendor. If they have been in business for more than 20 minutes they know this stuff happens and they should have a procedure. Most companies will just send out a replacement. Incidentally but not irrelevantly a big company might not want to insure the package, and in fact self insure. Or they might use a third party insurance company which is less expensive than the USPS. In any case it should not be your problem. You're the customer, part of the vendor's job is to sort out problems like this.

Brian Kent
12-30-2011, 9:08 PM
Thanks for the good info, Joel.

Rick Fisher
12-30-2011, 10:31 PM
I don't really want to involve Visa until I get a response back from the vendor. The package was valued at over $1600 Canadian which is the red flag for Canada customs. It means the package is automatically stopped and analyzed ..

I spoke to my lawyer about it briefly today and he said at the end of the day, you made a purchase which was not delivered or signed for .. He asked if I arranged to have it shipped or if they did .. I did not go to the lawyer about this.. it was a real-estate matter, while I was there, I asked him about it off hand. He said if its a reputable vendor, he would not be at all concerned..

I tend to believe two things.. Bad things happen, and good people tend to work things out .. It very well could be that the package will arrive.. I don't really know, but getting all excited and dramatic about it always seems to make it worse, not better.

The vendor did not lose the package.. they shipped it out in good faith.. No reason to be annoyed with them.. I have no idea if they insured it .. I think the freight was about $50.00, so its likely that they did .. I guess I will find out .. lol

Stuart Tierney
12-30-2011, 10:39 PM
I have no idea who your vendor is (not us) but as a retailer this is what we do for a living. You can't collect the insurance. The shipper (vendor) has to. You might have to provide a letter saying you didn't get the package but it's the shippers job. Contact the vendor. If they have been in business for more than 20 minutes they know this stuff happens and they should have a procedure. Most companies will just send out a replacement. Incidentally but not irrelevantly a big company might not want to insure the package, and in fact self insure. Or they might use a third party insurance company which is less expensive than the USPS. In any case it should not be your problem. You're the customer, part of the vendor's job is to sort out problems like this.

What he said.

The shipper effectively 'owns' the package all the way to the buyer's door. Anything goes wrong, it's on the seller.

But honestly, as long as all the boxes are ticked, problems are exceedingly rare and completely lost packages are even rarer.

If it's got tracking, you have to assume it's been fully insured as well. You will need to file details with the Post Office for a lost package, basically "I didn't get my package, I live here and this is my signature". It's not 'nothing', but it shouldn't be a big hassle, and considering the sellers needs that to make a claim for a lost package, I'm more than willing to spend a few minutes helping out to make sure folks I trusted my money with are not left holding the bag.

Good luck,

Stu.

Rick Fisher
12-31-2011, 1:56 AM
Its a drag.. I did a bunch of research prior to buying those chisels.. lol I wanted something " lifetime " and special. A collectors item of sorts.. I know that they cannot simply ship the order again because they didn't have the stock...

Okay, I am pouting now.. :)

The Tasai chisels are Mokume with Ebony handles, actually pretty hard to find, and kinda expensive.. Probably 100 day wait for another batch .. I guess I made it this far in life without them .. I will make it a few more months.. haha..

Buying them was quite a process, researching, reading, emailing different vendors about different products. Learned a bunch.. I guess I will always have that .. unless I forget. I am much more aware of the vendors for higher end tools and what to expect when talking with them .. I suppose ordering again will be simple.

Okay.. big boy pants back on.. Canada Post will probably find the shipment... either way, life goes on..

Tony Shea
12-31-2011, 11:56 AM
Pouting is to be expected with such a shipment of quality tools. As Joel and Stu said, (who happen to be extremely reliable vendors) the package NEEDS to be taken care of by the company who sold you the tools. You do not have the package, therefore is not your responsibility. They have your $ and you have nothing to show for it. You really need to get presistant with the vendor and explain that they need to sort this out. That shipment was sent weeks ago. Do not settle for anything less than what you paid for.

Mike Kelsey
12-31-2011, 1:07 PM
It does seem a little bizarre that the seller is not more proactive on this. As has been said tracking responsibility is from the sellers side, unless explicitly stated in the companies terms of condition. So company A sez I"ll sell you product C for $500 with no tracking, company B sells product C for $525 includes tracking - so which company provides better customer service? Could be both as long as company A follows through with replacement.

My wife profitably sells hand-made jewelry on-line, all shipped USPS, with delivery confirmation only. A few rare times the customer claimed never receiving the product or said it was damaged. A replacement was promptly sent out.

As Joel said, contact the seller. A friend who worked for the USPS for many years said claim reimbursement is practically a joke, can be complicated & takes a long time.

Insurance or not a good company will make it right.

Rick Fisher
12-31-2011, 2:32 PM
I don't want to give the wrong impression of the vendor.. The package was held up in customs until the 7th.. it was logical that the mail would slow down coming onto Xmas.. They have been very helpful so far.
I am really hoping the package surfaces.. Hoping there are no crooked woodworkers working for the post office. lol

There is a LN #5 in the box.. that should make it a big enough box that it will be easier to find ..

Andrew Pitonyak
01-01-2012, 7:06 PM
I called Canada Post and they suggested opening a claim for a lost package.

Canada post recommended that you open a claim. In my experience, you are not able to open a claim, the shipper must do that. So, I would ask the shipper to do that. I would contact the credit card company because there may be a time limit on saying that you never received the goods. If there will be a credit to your card based on the undelivered goods, then it will not matter if you file with the CC company. On the other hand, if the shipper will simply reship, that may be a different matter.

Let us know what happens.