Grizzly 2012

[Ryan Hellmer]

I got my grizzly catalog yesterday. I was flipping through it over breakfast and noticed that many of the machines are now labeled "Made in Taiwan." While Taiwan has been known for higher quality than mainland China, I was wondering if this is a product of moved production facilities or an attempt to capitalize on favorable country of origin sentiments (perhaps both). Personally, I'm trying to buy more American, it's nice to see the inclusion of some Baldor and South Bend stuff, but it's still super pricey. Lobbying for more "Made in USA" in that catalog.

So here's the question, would the "Made in Taiwan" put a check in the "pro" "con" or "I don't care" column for you?

Ryan

(who just realized he sounds like a market researcher, which I can assure you I am not)

[Van Huskey]

First since Grizzly bought South Bend is it still made in the USA? I think they are built in China and Taiwan using some German and Japanese parts, correct me if I am wrong.

For me Taiwan means "a little", since I won't afford the VAST majority of US built machines today buying a new machine means it will be Taiwan or China, although I try to buy the machine as opposed to brand or country of origin, all other things equal I would buy the Taiwan built machine.

[Matt Meiser]

South Bend stuff

Well kind of. The original South Bend is out of business. Grizzly bought the name, logo, and other assets of the original company. As far as I can find, the South Bend is just a premium brand of Asian-made equipment. For example, the South Bend 8K late is made in China.

More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Bend_Lathe_Works

[Cary Falk]

I think it is great that Grizzly is openly stating the country of origin instead of hiding it like a couple of companies that hide behind their old image of made in the USA. It is a bid deal to some people whether it is China or Taiwan. My China Grizzly planer does not quite have the same level of fit and finish as my Taiwan Grizzly table saw or bandsaw. I have not received my catalog yet. I always seem to be the last on the list.:(

[Mark Ashmeade]

If the product is in every way identical, made of the same grade of iron, cast in the same way, machined identically, etc then country of origin is one of the last items on my list to check for. If it means I can afford a better/more capable machine that's made in the Far East, or I can have an inferior specification machine made in the west, I'll go for the superior machine every time.

That said, I'd rather have a Delta machine in my shop than a Central Machinery one. The above doesn't apply though, the Delta will be better regardless of where it is made. My Bosch jigsaw was made in Switzerland, that put a smile on my face. I'd still have bought it if it were made in Vietnam though.

China or Taiwan? Makes no difference to me, it's the quality of the product.

Not interested in any political issues, if they want to work for slave wages and work in a concentration camp, and produce items of the quality of the iPhone etc, then that's up to them. I'll happily buy the product. If they live in 5* hotels and make items of the quality of the iPhone for the same price, I'll buy that product too. If they live in a normal home, earn normal wages and make poor products, I won't buy them.

[craig greene]

I have not received my 2012 cat yet either. Can you tell me, are they still carrying the Polar Bear line? If they are, has the price on the 14" Polar Bear band saw gone up? I'm also looking to try the 10" belt sander. Has that one gone up as well? Thanks for any information. I would not ask except there are only 2 more days left in the year.

To answer your question, I'm an "I don't care" coming from Grizzly. I have the Polar Bear hybrid saw and I think it is made in china. The fit, finish, and most importantly, operation is great.

[Tony Zaffuto]

When looking at equipment on the Grizzly site, check the "specifications" box and scroll down through data on the machine you are looking, among other things, it states the country of origin, as well as size & weight, electric requirements and all kinds of stuff.

[Dean Chapel]

I absolutely care where my machinery is made. I will support free, democratic country's manufacturing before that of socialist, communist, fascist, dictatorships countries, etc. I have bought things from Grizzly, and probably will again. I will not buy Chinese made tools, period. Tiawan is only moderately better. I'll pay the extra for American made goods, because it matters to me if Americans are working.

[Mike Metz]

Craig,
2012 catalog prices are
g0555p $495
i don't see a 10" belt sander, did u mean the drum sander? if so g0716 is $415

hope that helps you out!

[Van Huskey]

Craig,
2012 catalog prices are
g0555p $495
i don't see a 10" belt sander, did u mean the drum sander? if so g0716 is $415

hope that helps you out!

The G0555P is listed on the website as $425 currently, the G0716 is listed at $375 just FYI for anyone interested.

[Ryan Hellmer]

I'm pretty bummed to learn about South Bend being outsourced. And I certainly didn't mean to turn this political. I value "Made in USA" because I want to support our economy and because we have a good reputation for very high quality manufactured goods. The same can be said about England, Germany, Italy (to some extent) and most of the rest of europe. Japan has traditionally done a great job too. China entered the industrial market on the very low side of quality. I will be the first to say that Grizzly has really stepped that up.

The labor market issues are serious and shouldn't be overlooked. There was an interesting news article on the radio recently about a rash of suicides in the industrial complex that produces much of Apple's equipment (in China).

I continue to be disappointed in virtually every toolmaker for the choice to cheapen and outsource tools. Craftsman, Porter-Cable, DeWalt, South Bend... the list goes on and on. Hopefully (new) companies aren't trading in the hard-earned goodwill that these venerable old players built up through years of innovation and quality. It takes a long time to build the reputation but one bad production run to ruin it.

Ryan

[Van Huskey]

I continue to be disappointed in virtually every toolmaker for the choice to cheapen and outsource tools. Craftsman, Porter-Cable, DeWalt, South Bend... the list goes on and on. Hopefully (new) companies aren't trading in the hard-earned goodwill that these venerable old players built up through years of innovation and quality. It takes a long time to build the reputation but one bad production run to ruin it.

Ryan

The bottom line is the customer. When the average woodworker can't or won't afford the cost of an American made table saw, bandsaw, etc what good does the company do itself producing these products. Tough position but that is the cards we are playing with.

[craig greene]

Mike & Van,

That is the equipment I was looking at and hoping to get after the first quarter. Now it looks like I may have to purchase sooner. Thanks......

[Peter Quinn]

Me, I don't care where it's made. I care how well it's made, and how well it's supported. Unfortunately it's often difficult to ascertain the true quality of a machine until you have purchased it, and I don't know of any sellers offering unconditional satisfaction guarantees on large machines. I'd love to háve " Made in Germany" on all my machines, or Made in Minnesotta for that matter, but that's not in the budget. There hasn't been a major woodnworking machine manufacturer at the small shop level making all of their machines in the USA in my adult life, so Made in Tiawan is not a new concept. I'm largely forced to be indifferent, I don't have the luxury of forming convictions and sticking to them relative to country of origin. I buy whatever stuff I can afford and accept it's origins as a forgone conclusion.

[Van Huskey]

Me, I don't care where it's made. I care how well it's made, and how well it's supported. Unfortunately it's often difficult to ascertain the true quality of a machine until you have purchased it, and I don't know of any sellers offering unconditional satisfaction guarantees on large machines. I'd love to háve " Made in Germany" on all my machines, or Made in Minnesotta for that matter, but that's not in the budget. There hasn't been a major woodnworking machine manufacturer at the small shop level making all of their machines in the USA in my adult life, so Made in Tiawan is not a new concept. I'm largely forced to be indifferent, I don't have the luxury of forming convictions and sticking to them relative to country of origin. I buy whatever stuff I can afford and accept it's origins as a forgone conclusion.

That sums up very well what many of us feel.

[Shiraz Balolia]

Lots of interesting comments. Some clarifications below:

1) No, we did not move production to China and then back to Taiwan. The ones noted as "Made in Taiwan" have always been made there.

2) Grizzly does not own South Bend.

3) South Bend has not made machines in USA for well over 15 years.

4) All South Bend lathes, 10" swing and above, are made in Taiwan and generally include Japanese/German bearings, Japanese Inverters and US made Allen Bradley controls.

5) Grizzly has stated the country of origin in its specifications online for many years.

6) All things being equal, Made in Taiwan is better than Made in China. There are a few companies in China that we trust and offer products from them.

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

That sums up very well what many of us feel.

+1 here. Hit the nail on the head I believe...

[Van Huskey]

2) Grizzly does not own South Bend.



Semantics for us, but you own the brand, correct?

[Victor Robinson]

Nevermind Asian manufacturing...lately I've developed quite an affection for German engineering.

[Van Huskey]

Nevermind Asian manufacturing...lately I've developed quite an affection for German engineering.

One could make a good argument the German's are the best engineers, look what they can do with the rediculous layout of a 911. Turning a REAR engined car into one of the best sports cars in the world requires and AMAZING amount of engineering.