No more Norton sanding disk at my Home Depot......

[Bill Huber]

I needed a few sanding disk for my little Dewalt ROS so I went up to my local HD, and to my surprise all of the Norton disk were gone, all the shelves were red with Diablo sanding disk, no others of any type on the shelves.

So I had to get them, I am not at all happy with them, yes they sand but the dust collection is not good at all. They do not have holes to match the 8 holes my sander has. What they have is a bunch of small hole that really don't work very well, there may be one or two little holes over the ones on the sander but that is about it.

So I guess I will be ordering all my disk online now, I liked the Norton 3x and they did a good job. I hate to see Frued put out something like this, junk as far as I am concerned. I like their saw blades and router bits and I think that is were they should stop and leave the sand paper to someone else.


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[David Kumm]

don't blame Freud, blame HD. They demand the price point they are willing to pay, require the vendor to stock the inventory, and generally force the manufacturer to use cheap stuff if they want to sell to them. Dave

[Harry Hagan]

Actually, the blame lies with the consumer. If we didn’t buy that junk—Home Depot couldn’t sell it.

Bill. Take that junk back to Home Depot for a refund, find the general manager, and tell them the quality is unacceptable. If we won’t buy it, they can’t sell it.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I think I saw this tip in Shop Notes.....sandwich the new discs between two pieces of wood; use an old sanding disc as a template to mark out locations for new holes; and drill holes into the new discs. This helps with dust collection.

[David Kumm]

[QUOTE=Harry Hagan;1838651]Actually, the blame lies with the consumer. If we didn�t buy that junk�Home Depot couldn�t sell it.

Bill. Take that junk back to Home Depot for a refund, find the general manager, and tell them the quality is unacceptable. If we won�t buy it, they can�t sell it.[/QU

Exactly right Harry, I stand corrected. Dave

[Daniel Berlin]

I think I saw this tip in Shop Notes.....sandwich the new discs between two pieces of wood; use an old sanding disc as a template to mark out locations for new holes; and drill holes into the new discs. This helps with dust collection.

That sounds like a lot of effort to fix a broken product, *and* it makes home depot think they are good sellers.
As Harry said, return these, buy sanding discs that work properly.

[Van Huskey]

Shame. Get to know Klingspor http://www.woodworkingshop.com/search.aspx?q=vd900 they don't cut quite as quick but they last longer and are about half the price. Get their VD900 discs (the ones in the link). Klingspor is the go to for excellent abrasives at great prices.

[Bill Huber]

don't blame Freud, blame HD. They demand the price point they are willing to pay, require the vendor to stock the inventory, and generally force the manufacturer to use cheap stuff if they want to sell to them. Dave

But at what point do you lower you product to sell it at HD. Should Festool start making junk just so they can sell it at HD? I guess this is there lower line of product but where is the good sanding disk?

[Bill Huber]

I think I saw this tip in Shop Notes.....sandwich the new discs between two pieces of wood; use an old sanding disc as a template to mark out locations for new holes; and drill holes into the new discs. This helps with dust collection.

I think I am just going to do what Harry said, take them back and tell them how bad they are. I don't want to have to redrill them when I can go buy ones that work just fine and I don't have to drill them.

[Bill Huber]

Shame. Get to know Klingspor http://www.woodworkingshop.com/search.aspx?q=vd900 they don't cut quite as quick but they last longer and are about half the price. Get their VD900 discs (the ones in the link). Klingspor is the go to for excellent abrasives at great prices.

Van, that is just what I am going to do, I have use them before and I guess I need to watch my stock better so I don't run out in the middle of a project.

[Van Huskey]

The reality is most people that buy ROS discs at the Borgs don't even use any sort of duct collection on their ROS, so fewer inventory items plus larger purchases of "universal" discs from the supplier = more profit and satisfies 90+% of their clientale. Does the box say Freud since HD has carried non-Freud "Diablo" branded circular saw blades? Most people that know the Freud Industrail line respect it but they also know the lower lines are a crap shoot. It is just a sign of the times, not all bad since the same mentality brings a HF version of the Fein Multi-master that makes a lot of people here happy. It just requires us to be more informed consumers, which is made easy by communities like this, you have just prevented a lot of people from making your error as they have probably prevented you from making their error. Chalk it up to the good of the whole.

[Mike Henderson]

I think I saw this tip in Shop Notes.....sandwich the new discs between two pieces of wood; use an old sanding disc as a template to mark out locations for new holes; and drill holes into the new discs. This helps with dust collection.
If you do this, use an OLD drill bit. The sandpaper will eat up the edge on drill bits and they won't be good for much else after you drill a package of sandpaper.

Mike

[Pat Barry]

That Diablo disk looks like a great solution to me. If the sander manufacturers were to standardize on the hole pattern it would be even better, don't you think?

[Dave Lehnert]

Like one of the other post said. Is the Diablo sandpaper made by Frued?

Take a look at the new line of Sandpaper by Shopsmith. Sold at Lowe's and some Ace Hardware store. I have not used them myself yet. (Still stocked up right now) but response from other woodworkers has been good. I understand they cost a little more than standard paper. Made by a abrasive manufacture in Dayton Ohio I've been told.

http://www.shopsmithabrasives.com/disc-sanding.html

UPDATE- I just searched on line and a rep from Frued (on another forum) said the Sandpaper is a Frued product. But also said Diablo has always been a Frued name and all blades are still made in Italy. I'm going to have to look at Diablo blades again at HD.

UPDATE (again) I was thinking Advanti brand blades.

[Van Huskey]

I am all for a standard pattern but for myriad reasons it ain't gonna happen. The problem with the collection of small holes is the amount of open space over any sanders hole pattern is going to be SIGNIFICANTLY limited, it just can't be as effective as full sized holes in the correct position.

[Kevin Presutti]

Bill,

While your sitting at the computer pull up HD's site and find the product and leave a review. State that they aren't worth the time, effort, and money. I review anything I don't have first hand experience/knowledge of, and judging by the reviews I have read there seem to many out there that are all to happy to share a bad experience and warn others. Maybe Freud will tak note as well :D

[Bruce Wrenn]

Like one of the other post said. Is the Diablo sandpaper made by Frued?

Take a look at the new line of Sandpaper by Shopsmith. Sold at Lowe's and some Ace Hardware store. I have not used them myself yet. (Still stocked up right now) but response from other woodworkers has been good. I understand they cost a little more than standard paper. Made by a abrasive manufacture in Dayton Ohio I've been told.

http://www.shopsmithabrasives.com/disc-sanding.html



UPDATE (again) I was thinking Advanti brand blades.One of life's ironies. Lowes used to sell Freud blades under the "Avanti" brand. HD sold Freud blades under the Diablo brand. Bosch buys Freud, sells HD the the Avanti name, which they assign to Chinese junk. So now HD sells blades under both names, while Lowes went to CMT.

[Bill Huber]

Bill,

While your sitting at the computer pull up HD's site and find the product and leave a review. State that they aren't worth the time, effort, and money. I review anything I don't have first hand experience/knowledge of, and judging by the reviews I have read there seem to many out there that are all to happy to share a bad experience and warn others. Maybe Freud will tak note as well :D

Done... There was only one review there on them and it was bad.

[Kevin W Johnson]

I bought 3 or 4 boxes of the Norton's before they quit selling them, and was shocked to see the Diablo's just days later and no Notron's in sight. Glad I bought'em when I did.

[George Gyulatyan]

Same with HD in my area. No more Norton. Although I found the dust collection on the Freuds acceptable with my DeWalt ROS. It's got the 8 hole pattern, so more of the holes line up with them I suppose. However, the Nortons do cut better and seem to clog less in the middle where there are no holes.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I think I am just going to do what Harry said, take them back and tell them how bad they are. I don't want to have to redrill them when I can go buy ones that work just fine and I don't have to drill them.

Some people like to 'fix' things so I offered that tip. If you really prefer the Norton 3X.....definitely return them. I for one just do not get that hole pattern on the Freud....

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Bill, I agree with Van, buy a box of Klingspor discs at an industrial supplier.

I pay about $20 for a box of discs, far less expensive than HD...........................Rod.

[Bill Huber]

Hi Bill, I agree with Van, buy a box of Klingspor discs at an industrial supplier.

I pay about $20 for a box of discs, far less expensive than HD...........................Rod.

They are on order.....

[Curt Harms]

I haven't used discs from Industrial Abrasives but given that abrasives is what they do, I expect they'd be pretty good. I have use the wraps for a drum sander and they seem to work well.
http://www.industrialabrasives.com/hook-loop-discs-sheets-c-201.html?zenid=b28416289817f2256d04c403c95bf9da

[Bill Huber]

A little follow up on these disk to show just how bad they are. A normal 8 hole disk as .9116 sq. in. of open area for the sander to pull dust though, the others have .0237 sq. in. to pull the dust though.
Here is a picture of an 8 hole over the new ones, now that is really bad.

217767

[Ed Edwards]

go with Klingspor you can't beat their quality and/or performance

Ed

[Duane Bledsoe]

I know the prevailing view here is to return them, and I agree. I'd like to comment on one thing though. Some here suggested drilling new holes, and one person said use an old drill bit to keep from ruining nice sharp ones. I have a palm sander that I had significant trouble finding paper with any holes in at all to use with it. I could find 5" discs everywhere, but no square papers with holes in them. I simply laid one of my old papers over the new non-holed paper, and used a carriage bolt with a matching shank diameter to the hole as a punch to knock out perfectly round holes to the size needed and spaced accordingly. Put it on a scrap of wood and you'll find it cuts quite nicely since the wood surface gives below the bolt when struck, allowing for penetration and cutting of the paper. It's not a suggestion to fix this issue here, this comment is more of a suggestion on a quicker, simpler way to do what was being suggested here using drill bits before.

[Rick Fisher]

I am not surprised that the discs are crap.. Another poster commented on Freud Diablo blades and the difference between the industrial line.. Bang on .. I am in the building supply business and can tell you that having the name Freud on it does not mean you will enjoy it if your a serious woodworker. HD demands product they can both sell cheap AND make a healthy margin on .. so the wholesale cost has to be quite low.. Think about it..

The margin on the Industrial line of blades is actually quite low.. Do the math.. when buying from Freud, the cost of the Industrial line is way, way higher than the lower end stuff..

We started selling Tenryu about 2 years ago and it become our top selling brand. After the finishing carpenters and woodworkers try them, they seem to stay Tenryu.. The Freud Industrial blades are good but the lower end stuff damages the reputation.. About 4-5 times a year I get some customer telling me how expensive our Freud is compared to HD.. its an explanation I have had to make before...

[michael veach]

Like one of the other post said. Is the Diablo sandpaper made by Frued?

Take a look at the new line of Sandpaper by Shopsmith. Sold at Lowe's and some Ace Hardware store. I have not used them myself yet. (Still stocked up right now) but response from other woodworkers has been good. I understand they cost a little more than standard paper. Made by a abrasive manufacture in Dayton Ohio I've been told.

http://www.shopsmithabrasives.com/disc-sanding.html



I have started using these and love them.

[George wilmore]

My local HD has norton but they are multi hole disc. I found some really nice 8 hole disc at the local doitbest hardware store.

[Charles McCracken]

Hi Bill,

Thank you very much for your comments about our new line of Diablo sandpaper/abrasives. We are committed to offering the best sandpaper/abrasives on the market, and we appreciate any feedback that helps us improve our products.

As we developed our abrasive range, we conducted extensive testing versus other sandpaper lines on the market. In comparative tests of random orbit sanding discs, for example, our testing has shown that Diablo discs deliver an average of over 18% faster stock removal in hardwood, as well as 18% better dust collection. In softwoods, we have shown improvement of 9% to 18% in both stock removal and dust collection, depending on the grit tested. Since dust collection efficiency has been raised as an issue on this forum, we would like to point out that our testing suggests that the unique pattern of multiple small holes in Diablo discs actually allows dust to be drawn more efficiently into the sander, compared to the patterns of larger holes you have seen in the market.

Despite those positive test results, we also are well aware that problems can occur, and we take any customer suggestions or input very seriously. That’s why we are very interested in communicating in more detail about your experience with Diablo abrasives. If you will take a few minutes to contact us directly, we would like to learn more about your application and the problem you encountered, and also arrange an exchange of the product free of charge. We hope we can resolve the issue to your satisfaction, and we really appreciate your support in elevating the performance of Diablo sandpaper/abrasives.

Please contact me by email at cmccracken@freudtools.com

[Adrian Anguiano]

Hey bill. I'm from fort worth too and I feel your pain. Thankfully you can still go to woodcraft and Rockler for norton sandpaper. Also you can go to northerntool which have good prices and sutherlands too.

[Jim Rimmer]

Bill, I bought some of the discs, too, because I let my supply run low and needed some quickly. I think I'll go on line and post a bad review. I don't' like them at all. Guess I'll be going to Klingspor as well.

P.S. spell-checker thinks Klingspor should be Klingon. :)

[Van Huskey]

Hi Bill,

Thank you very much for your comments about our new line of Diablo sandpaper/abrasives. We are committed to offering the best sandpaper/abrasives on the market, and we appreciate any feedback that helps us improve our products.

As we developed our abrasive range, we conducted extensive testing versus other sandpaper lines on the market. In comparative tests of random orbit sanding discs, for example, our testing has shown that Diablo discs deliver an average of over 18% faster stock removal in hardwood, as well as 18% better dust collection. In softwoods, we have shown improvement of 9% to 18% in both stock removal and dust collection, depending on the grit tested. Since dust collection efficiency has been raised as an issue on this forum, we would like to point out that our testing suggests that the unique pattern of multiple small holes in Diablo discs actually allows dust to be drawn more efficiently into the sander, compared to the patterns of larger holes you have seen in the market.

Despite those positive test results, we also are well aware that problems can occur, and we take any customer suggestions or input very seriously. That’s why we are very interested in communicating in more detail about your experience with Diablo abrasives. If you will take a few minutes to contact us directly, we would like to learn more about your application and the problem you encountered, and also arrange an exchange of the product free of charge. We hope we can resolve the issue to your satisfaction, and we really appreciate your support in elevating the performance of Diablo sandpaper/abrasives.

Please contact me by email at cmccracken@freudtools.com

Charles,

Thanks fo your reply and hopefully those that have first hand experience will indeed contact you. I have one question was the increase in dust collection data gathered using only the internal capability of ROS or with an external vac attached or a average of the two. I could see the difference in flow rates making a large difference in efficacy, what might increase dust collection for one might do the opposite for the other.

[Bill Huber]

Hi Bill,

Thank you very much for your comments about our new line of Diablo sandpaper/abrasives. We are committed to offering the best sandpaper/abrasives on the market, and we appreciate any feedback that helps us improve our products.

As we developed our abrasive range, we conducted extensive testing versus other sandpaper lines on the market. In comparative tests of random orbit sanding discs, for example, our testing has shown that Diablo discs deliver an average of over 18% faster stock removal in hardwood, as well as 18% better dust collection. In softwoods, we have shown improvement of 9% to 18% in both stock removal and dust collection, depending on the grit tested. Since dust collection efficiency has been raised as an issue on this forum, we would like to point out that our testing suggests that the unique pattern of multiple small holes in Diablo discs actually allows dust to be drawn more efficiently into the sander, compared to the patterns of larger holes you have seen in the market.

Despite those positive test results, we also are well aware that problems can occur, and we take any customer suggestions or input very seriously. That’s why we are very interested in communicating in more detail about your experience with Diablo abrasives. If you will take a few minutes to contact us directly, we would like to learn more about your application and the problem you encountered, and also arrange an exchange of the product free of charge. We hope we can resolve the issue to your satisfaction, and we really appreciate your support in elevating the performance of Diablo sandpaper/abrasives.

Please contact me by email at cmccracken@freudtools.com

Email sent, I explained the problems I found with them.

[Bill Huber]

Got my order from Klingspor today, they looks good now I will just have to try them out.

[Ken Deckelman]

Got my order from Klingspor today, they looks good now I will just have to try them out.

Where are you ordering from?

[lowell holmes]

I order Deft Danish Oil from Klingspor on line.

There is an online site where you can order sanding products.

I have Klingspor catalogs they send me in the mail.

[Charles McCracken]

Charles,

Thanks fo your reply and hopefully those that have first hand experience will indeed contact you. I have one question was the increase in dust collection data gathered using only the internal capability of ROS or with an external vac attached or a average of the two. I could see the difference in flow rates making a large difference in efficacy, what might increase dust collection for one might do the opposite for the other.

Hi Van,

We performed tests with powered dust collectors but since they vary so widely we focused primarily on the built in collection for comparison. You raise a valid point and I believe that due to the wide range of collectors available there is an equally wide range of answers. Product development and refinement is vital in a new product line and we will be listening to feedback from customers, following up with testing and making changes where necesasry to ensure that Diablo abrasives are the best available.

[Van Huskey]

Thanks for the candid answers Charles. It is indeed hard to make a product that fits everyones intended use. I could also see it being true what works with out dust collectors vs with them could indeed be two different things.

[Kevin W Johnson]

Klingspor sells their line of products thru it's own online store. http://www.woodworkingshop.com/

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Come on folks. Keep it civil please!

[Bill Huber]

Where are you ordering from?

http://www.woodworkingshop.com/