Wood Species for Gramercy Bow Saw Kit

[Chris Griggs]

I'm about to order Gramercy Bowsaw kit, and want to start building it right away, so I'm hoping to get some advice on acceptable a wood species. While the Gramercy saw is made from hickory, the website says "A turning saw can be made from almost any wood that can take a little tension", but I assume there is a practical limit to this. I would prefer to use lumber of I already have around so my options if I decide to do that are: walnut, sapelle, or soft curly maple.

The main thing I was just looking at in woods is specific gravity (please tell me if I should be looking at a different number). None of the species I have on hand have the specific gravity of hickory (.64 for Shagbark Hickory according to wood-database.com). This website puts American Black Walnut at .51, Sapelle at .55, and Soft Maple at .44 -.49 depending on exact species. I think soft maple is probably out since it also looks to have a low "elasticity strength" but Sapelle is very close to Hard Maple in terms of specific gravity and elasticity strength and walnut doesn't appear to far off either. For reference hard maple is rated at .56 for specific gravity. However, I really don't have a good understanding of what these numbers mean in practicality so I could use some help.

Are the woods I have on hand likely to work well for a bow/turning saw? Sapelle and/or walnut would certainly look cool, but if they don't hold up that of function well appearance is of no value. Should I be looking at different numbers? Should I just make a run to the lumber yard and pick up some hard maple, birch or beach (I believe my supplier typically has those, but hickory would be difficult for me to come by). Is there some other readily available species I should be considering?

Advice or experience from anyone (cough, cough and Joel...) would be appreciated....

[Mike Holbrook]

I just priced out some wood at a hardwood store near Atlanta. I am thinking about Ash for my bench. It can be had in 8/4 at $3.19. Isn't Ash frequently used for bowsaws too?

[Dave Beauchesne]

Chris:

If you read George Wilson's post on the marquetry guitar and the special saw he constructed for it, he used yew wood - however, I doubt there is yew available in New Orleans - I live in yew country, and it is hard to get even here.

What about pecan? I have heard it has many hickory like qualities? Just throwing that out there.

Dave Beauchesne

[Steve Branam]

I built mine out of Honduran rosewood, because I could't tell the difference between that and the hickory in my wood stack :rolleyes:.

So far the rosewood has worked great. When you wind it up tight, there's a lot of tension on the arms, with the crosspiece as a fulcrum in the middle. Without being scientific about it, the walnut I've worked with wouldn't seem suitable. Seems like the arms would have too much flex to them, and might not have enough strength in general, risking collapse. There's a reason you see long tool handles made of hickory, not walnut. So there's an opinion unencumbered by facts!

I have an old flea market Marples bow saw that appears to be made from beech.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks guys. Yeah, I'm on the fence about walnut. It's not a weak wood, but it's not exceptionally strong either. Sapelle seems pretty tough, but also can be difficult to work (at least the VERY little I've worked it) because of the interlocking grain - tearout city. I guess I'll end up going over most of it with rasps files and sandpaper anyway so it might be a non issue.

My local lumber yard has some good stuff, but it's pretty hit or miss. Birch always is plentiful there, but I'm not sure what type it is - I presume it's yellow which my understanding is pretty tough and has a high elasticity strength. Mike,believe it or not I don't think I've seen ash at my supplier, but once again they are hit or miss, the have a handful of nice domestic hardwoods and exotics, but there are some fairly common domestics that I don't see there. I think I saw beech there once, but will need to call to find out. My understanding is that it was a fairly common wood for bowsaws so my guess is it would work quite well. What about QS white oak - I know that's available? Or would that be to brittle?

Steve your bowsaw sounds sweet - rosewood is strong stuff at least according to the numbers I'm looking at. I'll bet yours is a beaut!

Dave, yep I read Geroge's post. No idea where I would find yew...

[Jerome Hanby]

I bought a hickory board with the notion of using it for my bow saw when and if I ever get around to it...

[Tony Shea]

Out of all the woods you've thrown out there so far white oak sounds the most suitable. I would not worry about it being too brittle at all. Oak can typically take a beating. Hard maple would also be another option, which the your lumber supplier should carry. Maple would be a bit more brittle but I have seen many bow saws made of it stand up to the tension. And the birch should work as well.

[Jason Coen]

Walnut will work fine, or at least it did on the several walnut turning saws that I've used. I prefer 2nd-cut hickory (can you even find 1st-cut at a lumber yard anymore?) above all others, with beech a close second, but I'd have no problems making one for myself out of walnut.

I'm a little jealous of Chris - I really enjoyed my first turning saw build, and have done several more since, but that first one was great fun and was the first "real" tool that I made.

[Steve Branam]

Steve your bowsaw sounds sweet - rosewood is strong stuff at least according to the numbers I'm looking at. I'll bet yours is a beaut!

I was pretty happy with the way it turned out, and the rosewood is indeed gorgeous. You can see the full build at http://www.closegrain.com/2010/06/building-gramercy-bow-saw.html, including how to cut the curved parts without a bow saw. Also, I ended up using a scraper for a lot of fine work. The rosewood works amazingly with a scraper.

[Chris Griggs]

I was pretty happy with the way it turned out, and the rosewood is indeed gorgeous. You can see the full build at http://www.closegrain.com/2010/06/building-gramercy-bow-saw.html, including how to cut the curved parts without a bow saw. Also, I ended up using a scraper for a lot of fine work. The rosewood works amazingly with a scraper.

Funny, did a google search earlier today on making the kit and ran across that, didn't realize it was you for some reason. The kerfing/chisel technique you showed will probably be used in some areas, but I've gotten pretty good at pushing my coping saw to do more than it is intended for so I'll probably put that to use too. Of course, once I finish the build I won't need to struggle with a coping saw for this type of work.

Jason, great to hear the walnut worked for you - makes it tempting for me, since I have it around already. If I have time though I may take a trip to the lumber yard and pick thru the white oak or birch nonetheless. In addition to being strong QS white oak could make a pretty cool looking saw. Thanks for the input folks.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I've been contemplating making one of these for a while . . . last time I was at my local lumber merchant, they had hickory - but it was 3.20 a bf for rough 4/4 - I'm hoping to make it back this week for some stock for projects - want me to look into getting enough for two and send some your way?

[Chris Griggs]

I've been contemplating making one of these for a while . . . last time I was at my local lumber merchant, they had hickory - but it was 3.20 a bf for rough 4/4 - I'm hoping to make it back this week for some stock for projects - want me to look into getting enough for two and send some your way?

That's a nice offer Josh and 3.20 a bf seems like a very good price, but actually I didn't mention that I need enough for two kits. I had Archie England throw one in his cart for me today when he was ordering some stuff from TFWW so we are both making them. He a turner, so he's gonna make the handles for both of us. Anyway, long story short, even though it's still a relatively small amount of wood for two kits I'm thinking the shipping could be a pain . Odd/long dimensions get costly really fast even if the weight isn't bad (and would probably be a pain to try and pack from your end) so I'll hold off and just make a visit to my local lumber yard. I need to pick up some material to redo my shooting board anyway. Thanks though, nice of you to offer taking the time to look into it for me.

In less then a year I'll be settled back up PA and will have an abundance of domestic hardwoods available - sure am looking forward to that.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

No problem. I don't even know if they have any left, honestly. Shipping wouldn't be that bad - could cut it into 22-23 inch lengths and throw it into a large flat rate box (we have a bunch of the 23-11/16" x 11-3/4" x 3" ones) that's like 15 bucks. Just throwing it out there. I think the best wood for most projects is the wood you have or the wood you can get.

Keep us posted on the progress!

[Chris Griggs]

Sure will keep you posted. You know I'll post/gloat when I/we get them done - I always do:). Be sure to post yours if/when you build one.

[Glenn Crocker]

I made mine from a couple of blanks split from a piece of straight grained firewood. Hickory in my case, but any common firewood species will be strong enough - zero grain runout is more important than specific gravity or modulus of elasticity for this application.

[Chris Griggs]

I made mine from a couple of blanks split from a piece of straight grained firewood. Hickory in my case, but any common firewood species will be strong enough - zero grain runout is more important than specific gravity or modulus of elasticity for this application.

Great advice Glenn! I think what I'm going to do is take a trip to the lumber yard this weekend and pick through the QS white oak and Birch to find the straightest grain piece in the place. At this point I'm leaning towards QS white oak since it's likely to be very straight, is certainly strong, and IMHO looks pretty nice too. Maybe I'll even use this as an opportunity to experiment with ammonia fuming.

On another note I just got of the phone with Archie discussing what wood to use. He brought up the idea of using some "junk wood" but I was like - "No way!" Its pretty cool that you used fire wood, I guess if we find the right piece/pieces (straight, dry, strong) Arch's idea to use what he has around could yield us some pretty nice saws.

[Bob Jones]

I used really straight grained, air dried, heart wood, walnut. It works great. No problems yet. I think I posted pictures a while back. The main thing is no knots!

[Chris Griggs]

I used really straight grained, air dried, heart wood, walnut. It works great. No problems yet. I think I posted pictures a while back. The main thing is no knots!

By heartwood, I assume you just mean the standard dark walnut heartwood as opposed to lighter sapwood correct? Or are you talking about some special cut of walnut? I guess if I use walnut and it breaks, worst case scenario would be having to (or getting to) remake it. It's funny, in theory, walnut doesn't seem like a great choice, but now two folks have said that it worked just fine for them. That's what I was hoping to get from this post. So often what works/doesn't work in theory is different from what works doesn't work in practice.

Also, with whatever wood I use, I'm assuming it may be advisable to split of my pieces instead of sawing them to grain avoid run out, correct?

[Jason Coen]

Also, with whatever wood I use, I'm assuming it may be advisable to split of my pieces instead of sawing them to grain avoid run out, correct?

Absolutely.

And like Glenn, all mine have been made from firewood chunks that were split out to get the major pieces.

[lowell holmes]

Well,

You guys did it. I ordered the bow saw kit. While on line I noticed that the handle makers rasp is in stock again, so I ordered one of those too.

Thanks guys! :)

[Archie England]

Congrats! Chris and I are looking forward to the project.

[John Powers]

Some of the failures posted early on were due to the builders trying to get by with the slimmest, most elegant arms. I don't think the functionality of the saw would suffer from beefing up the arms to deal with the tension. I have ash and that's what I'd use. That said, I see no need for that saw but then I lack the patience most of you have.

[Bob Jones]

Proof....

Heartwood - yes, just the non-sapwood. The sapwood feels weaker to me. I mention air-dried because kiln dried wood always feels a bit more brittle to me, but I suspect it should work fine. Working with handtools really gives you a better feel for the wood. :D For the record, I am not trying to say walnut is superior, I just had extra so it works.

I would not worry about getting QS wood because the pieces are nearly square. I would suggest trying to find rift sawn pieces.

Splitting the wood sounds like a great idea, but I just tried to saw with the grain.

Don't judge me on the handles. I "cobbled" them from the same walnut stock with a rasp and a coping saw. They look ugly, but they are surprisingly comfortable. I don't need a lathe :cool:

[Chris Griggs]

Looks great Bob, the handles don't look bad at all either. Maybe not as uniform as a turning, but they certainly look pretty good to me. If I didn't have Archie to turn the stuff I'd do what you did. He an I are splitting up the project, I'm going to make the frames, and hes going to turn the knobs and possibly the toggle.

Should be fun!

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Everytime I see what air-dried walnut looks like compared to the kiln stuff I find locally, I kick myself for passing up on the one opportunity I had for some.

[george wilson]

I'll warrant that more of those saws have been made of beech than any other wood,because beech is hat all the commercial makers usually use. The Germans may use hornbeam sometimes. I've used hard maple,no problem. Hickory is fine,though I think it is rather ugly wood.

[Chris Griggs]

Well, I just found out I may be able to get my hands on enough yew (for next to nothing) for one the saws. The other will be made out of what I have on hand (sapele or walnut) or if I get a chance to get to the lumber yard soon,white oak, beech, or birch (whatever is most dry and straight). I may even make a 3rd frame while I'm at it just for the fun of it/in case one of the frames doesn't work out.

[Mike Holbrook]

You people are staring to get under my skin, I guess I should have ordered a bowsaw kit when I placed my 2nd order with TFMW in two weeks. I placed an order a couple days ago even though I was still in pain from buying the two backsaw package just before Christmas. Give me a break, at least until I get my other projects done! I still have to buy the wood for my bench.... I have a project to add 60x10' of space to a building too, you people are killing me!

Check out the toggles Glenn at Wood Joy makes for his bowsaws. The toggle is two pieces allowing one to shorten the toggle for winding the string good & tight, then lengthening it so it will hold in place. Also the piece that resides in the string can be wider which helps prevent the string from bunching up in the center. Looks like a great deign for the piece in bowsaws that often causes the most issues.

[Chris Griggs]

Took a trip to the lumber yard today. Picked up a couple small pieces of white oak and a gorgeous piece of flame birch that was just sitting right on top of the yellow birch pile. The birch should be great bow saw material in addition to being beautiful, it is strong, dense and straight. May not be able to bring myself to make a bow saw out of this piece though. Yes, that's what I bought it for, but its such a nice piece I kinda want to find a furniture project for it now. Oh well, between it, the white oak I bought, the yew I might get, and the stuff Arch and I already had around we'll be set for making our saws. Thanks for the input everyone!

Flame Birch
217689

[Trevor Walsh]

How about old mahogany? would that do well enough for a bowsaw?