A Quick Story and a Vise Question

[Joey Chavez]

I'm not sure why it's called a slippery slope when it seems as though I've fallen off a cantilevered cliff, no hope of grabbing onto anything to pull me back up.... as if I really wanted to. I responded to a recent post question on how we got started in hand tools. I wrote a few paragraphs on how one swipe of a mildly sharpened Buck Bros. block plane changed my entire point of view on my woodworking. After receiving my Veritas LA Jack shortly after, I'm all in. I've looked for every reason I could to use it while I finished off a few Christmas gift projects. My Christmas list was entirely Lee Valley and all my Christmas gift cards and money will be devoted to Lee Valley as well. They will be getting a call from me as soon as I get some opinions from the experts on this forum. There is so much I could write about this transformation I've gone through in the last couple months, heck I even sent my dad his first block plane for Christmas along with a 5 page letter on how I became interested in hand tools and told him what I've learned thus far so he could jump right in. Unfortunately, he got the letter but not the package and we're still trying to track it down. All this after I had recently bought a new Leigh dovetail jig and a new bandsaw and told my wife I pretty much had everything I needed. Here's a tip, throughout my marriage I've always tried to spoil my wife by paying attention to current fashions and painstakingly picking outfits for gifts that she probably wouldn't spend the money for if she was shopping for herself. It seems to be paying off as my wookworking tool needs (okay desires) have yet to meet serious rebuttle, although I won't push my luck too much longer.

I had a Roubo build in the back of my mind already just as a nice to have. A short time ago I thought I struck gold on an off brand "european style" bench. The more I used my new jack plane the more it would rock, the more I would tighten the bolts and rock again. I also received the Workbenches book by Christopher Schwarz for Christmas and got through it in less than a couple days. I chuckled as he accurately defined the shortfalls I've already witnessed on my current bench. So a stout bench has become priority. Like many, the Benchcrafted split top and vice hardware seems to be the one that I keep turning to but in the end I can't justify the money when I want to add to my plane collection and buy my first handsaws.

The Lee Valley Tail and Shoulder Vise screws seem to be an inexpensive answer to a leg and wagon vise, the two vises I would seem to get the most use out of after reading through the book. Am I on the right track with this plan, a lot less money and still have the leg and wagon similiar to the Benchcrafted set up? I would also add the rollers from Benchcrafted as well.

While I have your attention, what would be your preference, the wooden scrub plane from LV or the Veritas cast iron scrub? I have a lot of rough cherry and walnut and thought I would put some use into a good scrub.

Thanks in advance for your input, once I get some of your info I'm on the phone to Lee Valley!

[Jim Koepke]

what would be your preference, the wooden scrub plane from LV or the Veritas cast iron scrub?

I use an old #5-1/4 for my scrub plane. With the abuse it gets I think the cast iron will suffer less than the wood. Also a little more weight is nice.

jtk

[Steve Branam]

I have a wooden Ulmia scrub plane that's virtually identical to the wooden ECE scrub at LV. I got it second-hand from a neighbor who probably got it back in the 80's. It works just fine. A scrub doesn't have to be subtle, just has to handle the beating.

I built the Roubo workbench from Chris Schwarz's first workbench book, using all hand tools after running all the stock through a planer. You can see the full build at http://www.closegrain.com/2009/10/my-roubo.html. It makes a great learner project, and gives you great satisfaction on completion. You really have something to show for your efforts. And if you make a few mistakes here or there, it's not a catastrophe, just a learning opportunity.

[Mark Baldwin III]

A word of advice from someone who jumped down the slope recently...Don't go and buy every new and shiny thing that you see. It's a bad habit (and we all do it to some extent). I love LV and their tools, it's hard not to spend whole paychecks on that stuff.
Three books I might recommend, if you haven't read them already: David Finck's plane book. If you are at all interested in making some of your own planes, it's a good book to have. Building a Krenov style plane from that book will take a day or two (great way to build a scrub, btw). Next is The Anarchist's Tool Chest. This book will help you focus your tool efforts. Third, The Joiner and Cabinet Maker. It's a good read and covers some basics. Each of those three books have been worth every penny I paid.
Read up around here on antique tools. There are times when the oldies are the best, and a lot of the time they can be had for much less than a new tool. Hand saws and planes can easily be restored by anyone with just a bit of effort and skill. If I can sharpen my own saws, you can too! Steve B has some good saw sharpening info on his blog, and I've posted a few on mine as well. Bob Smasler has a couple articles here on the Creek that will take the mystery out.
I could go on. The slope is fun and fast! Start with a reasonable goal and choose your tools wisely. And since you plan on spending a bunch of money at LV, I'm a fan of their back saws (after all that, and I still tell you to buy something shiny and new).

[Joey Chavez]

I hear you Mark. I was really fortunate to get the extra dollars this Christmas this year so I could buy some new tools but I have learned to be critical of what I buy, not just buy what looks good and what I "think" I'll need. On one hand, I now know not to buy cheap, but also take it through a fairly extensive research period, I've learned the hard way, buying something that ends up sitting around unused. The Anarchist's Tool Chest is definitely on the list, I want to read his other work as well. I did get a good Hand Plane book for Christmas too.

A couple things I forgot to mention in the original post, one dilema I have faced over the last couple weeks has been realizing I would need a jointer plane. Not only am I planning a Roubo build for myself, I'll also be doing a scaled down version for my step dad. Like I said I had a good Christmas. One present from the parents turned out to be 3 rusted planes from grandpa's basement that had been laying around for years. The first one was a No. 6 Keen Kutter, I figured this would be close enough to a No. 7 to get started and by Christmas night I had it taken apart and started taking the rust off. My first restoration project underway, it already has been a rewarding experience, and an alternative to spending the high dollars. I'm ordering an new blade and cap iron, if I get it working well I will have already opened another door in this hobby. The second plane was a 14 inch jack plane by Winchester. If what I'm reading is correct they were also built by Stanley for a short period of time, I actually found it in a 1923 Winchester catalog. The third one is a jack plane that I can't find any markings on.

[James Owen]

I build furniture using only hand tools, so my perspective is already skewed......

I'm also in the queue for building a Roubo bench; I'm looking to equip mine with a deadman, a leg vise, a retractable planing stop, and a crochet. Courtesy of, among others, Chris Schwarz and his many excellent articles on traditional hand tool techniques, along with some experimentation on my part, I've found that a tail/wagon/end vise is not a necessity for doing hand tool woodworking (they are, of course, very handy, though).

The weight of the plane, along with a couple of battens, as required, will keep a board straight, in-place, and tight against a planing stop and the bench top with very few problems, and does have the advantage of being very quick to re-position a board or switch boards, compared to using a vice to hold them in place. However, it is a technique that takes a bit to get used to, especially if you're accustomed to holding your work piece in place with a vise.

So....while an at-the-end-of-the-bench vise would certainly be very useful, it doesn't appear to me to be an absolute necessity for building stuff....

For the leg vise screw, you could go with the LV (nice), Woodcraft German-made (also nice), or the LN (really nice), for metal screws. A number of people will recommend a large diameter (2" or 2-1/2") wooden screw as a better choice. In the end, it probably all boils down to personal preference, budget, and, in this case, some relatively minor performance trade-offs......

*****

For scrub planes, I like the LN scrub, but also have a vintage no-name European horn-handled scrub plane with an Erik Anton Berg iron. Both work quite well, although I usually reach for the LN......

[Steve Branam]

The third one is a jack plane that I can't find any markings on.

One thing I would be cautious about (one of my biases) is modern metal planes that have no markings. In general, any manufacturer who takes so little pride in its products that it won't even put its name on them probably isn't worth bothering with. My first plane was one of those. The reason I initially gave up on hand tools 25 years ago. Cheap materials, cheap manufacturing, crappy iron, just frustrating to use. Maybe for a rough jack plane with a cambered iron it might be ok, but don't invest much time in it. Either it works or it doesn't.

That is of course a sweeping generalization, but there's a reason why people are loyal to brands. Whether it's top-tier brands, or second- or third-tier, you at least have some reasonable expectations about what you are getting. At least until some third-party buys up the brand and starts "cost-reducing" the product.

[Jim Koepke]

One thing I would be cautious about (one of my biases) is modern metal planes that have no markings. In general, any manufacturer who takes so little pride in its products that it won't even put its name on them probably isn't worth bothering with.

This is good advice for those who have not learned to identify makers by the individual markers.

Many Union planes are unmarked.

Stanley didn't put Bailey on the toe of their planes before 1902.

Millers Falls planes are not always clearly marked, but the identifiers give them away all the time.

It may have been that many of the makers didn't put clear markings on their planes so a change of lever cap or just a paper label could have a local hardware supplier's name slapped on.

My Stanley/Bailey type 4 - #6 with a replacement blade would not be identifiable as being made by Stanley if one didn't know to look for the patent information inside the brass adjuster nut.

jtk

[Trevor Walsh]

As someone who bought a scrub, I'd go with a nice jack and a few blade sets, one cambered to take the place of a scrub and a corner clipped one, if you read about setting up a jack plane you'll get it sorted. I'd also get sharpening stuff right off the bat, waterstones are my poison, working with a less than ideal sharpening setup with new tools is sure to frustrate. And there's nothing like a sweet thin shaving to keep the heart content.