My first segmented bowl

[Mike Cruz]

Back when I used to do woodworking for a living, one Christmas, my boss gave each of us a bowl that he had turned as a gift. The one I got was made of Bloodwood and Ebony. I still cherish it today. His bowl has long inspired me to turn my own segmented bowl. This one is very similar to the one he turned, but I used Bubinga and Wenge, and mine has an accented foot. I made some mistakes that I learned from. Next time I will not "assume" I only need X amount of overlap and will be more generous...leaving me more room to do what "I" want instead of what I "can" do. Walls are 1/4" (at the rim...down to a little over 1/16" in a spot where I didn't have much choice because of the glue up). Overall dimensions are 15 1/2" wide by 3" tall. The "medallion" in the middle was both a necessity and a design opportunity. I had some tearout in the very middle at glueup anyway...but when making the the bottom concave inside the foot, I made it a liiiiiitle too thin in the very middle. Drilled out a hole. Filled the hole, and almost the entire inside of the foot (widthwise, not depthwise) with brass shavings and epoxy mix. When cleaning out the inside of the foot, I got a bad feeling that if I tried to clean it any more, or did any sanding, I was going to ruin the entire thing. This is a present for my inlaws that I am giving them on Sunday. So, I didn't want the whole thing to be ruined. I caved and stopped before the brass on the underside was completely done. Turned out okay, but not as well as I had hoped. For a first time, I'm happy enough.

Any comments are welcome.

The pics show the glue up and the final product. Finish is WOP. I was going to do an oil, but thought WOP might keep it from moving better...if it has any tendencies...

[Roger Chandler]

Way to go Mike! Segmenting is something I want to do eventually...............takes more time than I have now, but boy some pretty stuff can be made............this is good for your first! Hope the inlaws appreciate all the hard work you put into it!

[Steve Vaughan]

You did really good on a first! I'd like to give segmenting a try, but I'm not good at getting those angles right.

[Robert McGowen]

Well, the good news about drilling out the center is that it stands a reasonable chance of not coming apart now. As you originally had the glue-up, it almost certainly would fail given how big the bottom pieces are and that they had zero space for movement. It looks very nice and I am sure that the in-laws will like it.

[Ken Hill]

That turned out really nice!!

[Tony De Masi]

Nice job Mike. Looks far better than the last time I saw it. I'm sure your in laws will love it. Maybe you should put Malcom's book or DVD on your list.

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, everyone...Tony, I might just do that...

I'm SURE my inlaws will love it...and that's the problem! They always show off anything I give them to EVERYONE that walks in their house. And since I'm not completely thrilled with this, I'm hesitant to give it to them (but only for that reason). The fist putter I ever made, I gave to my father. After he passed, it went with him...right by his side...forever. So, I thought it appropriate to give my first segmented bowl to my inlaws. They are the best inlaws anyone could ever hope for. They think the world of me...

[Mike Cruz]

Robert, should the grain of the middle wood have gone the other direction?

[Mike Cruz]

BTW, this is not a "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all" thread. I know there are faults in it. It won't hurt my feelings for them to be pointed out...whether in design or craftsmanship. Peter, your cue to chime in... :D

[Scott Hussey]

That turned out much better than my first segmented attempt! Pretty wood combination!

[Roger Chandler]

Mike....the center of the bottom coming together from all the segments is what would have failed..........most recommend that you use a solid bottom, or a bottom that is one piece of board, and surround it with a segment ring.

[Roland Martin]

I also like the wood combination, they work real well together. That's a very nice first attempt Mike, the inlaws will love it!

[Robert McGowen]

Robert, should the grain of the middle wood have gone the other direction?

Mike, the bottom is oriented correctly. The problem is, and I am sure that you know this already, wood gets wider and narrower when moving. It doesn't (for pratical arguements) get longer. Therefore, your bowl bottom will do one of two things. It will move in on itself, but have no where to go, as all of the points come together in the middle. This will basically make the joints fail due to the pressure. The other scenario is that it will move outward. This will cause the middle points to seperate as they move away from each other. One way or the other, the bottom will destroy itself. The larger the bottom, the more likely that it will happen.

By drilling out the middle and putting a somewhat flexible filling in it, you might have accidentally ;) given the bottom a fighting chance. Realistically though, it is probably nice that you have such a good realationship with your in-laws, so that you can repair it for them in the coming year. :eek: Then again, it being wood, it might stay together just fine.

[John Keeton]

Mike, I don't do segmentation, so any of it impresses me!! I like it, and you did a good job on the piece. If I were guessing, I would think a floating bottom would provide a little more security against failure, but I know nothing about such stuff. McGowen and Wyko are the guys with that knowledge!

[Mike Cruz]

Again, thanks for all the compliments and info.

As for a solid bottom, the one my boss made had a solid bottom, and over the years, warped a bit. I attributed that to having a solid bottom, with the grain going in one direction, and the segmented pieces going "around" it, therefore across the grain in two areas, and with the grain in two areas. Maybe he did it correctly, but the wood just dried and shrunk over time, warping it...luckily, without it cracking anywhere.

I'll look into a book or DVD on segmentation for future projects...

[Baxter Smith]

Congrats Mike. Looks good though I have never attempted one!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Looking good Mike. I have only attempted one but would like to do more.

[David E Keller]

Looks good to me! I know nothing of segmenting, and at this point, ignorance is bliss!

[Tim Rinehart]

Sweet! Excellent work, I like it

[Jerry Wright]

For what it is worth, I have made many large bowls segmented in the manner which Mike used on this one. I also have made many that have a segmented rim and sides on top of a solid bottom. None have failed anywhere due to expansion and contraction. One was 24" in diameter and is still in regular use by a caterer. The trick is to use very well dried wood from the start so that you are only dealing with seasonal wood movement, not movement caused by initial drying. Also turn to a fairly uniform thinness overall.

Mike did a nice job on this one and the grain orientation adds some tt interesting patterns.

[Joe Watson]

Cool, nice job, the ebony came out great. Not sure it if it was your intent or not, but i think it would look alittle better if when the pie cuts (middle/bottom) where made, they where all cut the from the same direction from the plank (wide part of the pie all came from the "left" side of the plank) or when they where glued up they altered "every other" - some have "wider/more defined grain" on the out-side some have it on the inner/center part. I dig it non-the-less.

[Hayes Rutherford]

Looks like a monumental first attempt. I might try it some day but haven't seen my table saw for quite awhile.

[Michelle Rich]

I have made tons of segmentations & the info Robert is telling you is correct. large bottoms are bugaboos! Having a large diameter solid bottom is a no-no too! The bottome expands & contracts too much,in an oval way, and the segments expand, and contract too! But in differing directions from the bottom! As a matter of fact, i love segmenting, but there are tons of hurdles to overcome! If you study segmentations, most vessels are narrow bottomed and tallish. I'd keep this first and make another for your inlaws. That way they can show off your stuff! But for a first, i think you learned a ton & will carry these lessons to your next piece. Happy holidays Mike.

[Russell Eaton]

If you want to see a BAD segmented piece, I have a bowl that I turned about 3 years ago and it is rough! I like your and the fix looks fine to me. Thanks for showing.

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, yet again, all.

And Jerry, I can only hope that the wood was drier than dry :) . Actally, it seemed quite arid while turning...

[Mike Cruz]

Michelle, I will do some study of segmenting before attempting the next one. Thanks for the info/input.

[Mike Cruz]

Joe, yes I did flip the board over with each cut...so it didn't end up as continuous grain. I could have, but just didn't want to waste the wood. Anyway, the grain was actually kinda squirrelly down the board, so, not sure just how much continuous grain I would have gotten anyway... Good ideas, though, and I'll consider them for next time. Thanks!

[Mike Cruz]

Hayes, while I probably SHOULD have used my TS, I used my miter saw for all the cuts. If you can find yours, you won't have to rummage through the bowls to uncover your TS. :)

[Mike Cruz]

Roger, you have no idea how much more time... or maybe you do... I think I have about 7 hours into the glue alone. Of course, since I hadn't done one before, some of that 7 hours was calculating the angles and widths. If you can't dedicate the time, segmenting isn't an option. Then again, that time doesn't have to be all at once. The pieces need to glue time, so you can do little by little.

And my inlaws will be simply amazed at how the pieces are cut and fit... They appreciate art. I'm like their "other" kid...if I made drawings with crayons, they'd hang them on their fridge... :)

[Michelle Rich]

First: merry Christmas. Hope you & yours have a great day. Second: I started thinking about my response to this post & i wanted to make sure you did not get the idea that i did not think that this would hold together, It very well may. Wood has a will of it's own. One can follow the rules religiously and the dang things still get "creep" (the rows let small bumps along the glue lines) , or one can do a lot of "winging it" and turn out OK. Have you been to Segmented Woodturners.org? (I think that's the address..you can't get in the site ($$$), but you can see all the pictures of the day. It's a library of great pieces & you can learn a lot.

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, Michelle. I'll go take a look!

No worries. I didn't think you were "dooming" my bowl. I completely understood that you were suggesting to keep this one for my own...just in case it did come undone. And give them one that was done more....carefully ;) that might stand a better chance. I appreciate you honesty and warning. Like I said, I wasn't just looking for slaps on the back (while, of course, I enjoy them). I wanted honest opinions. Thanks.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Looks pretty good to me Mike - especially the finish!

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, Steve!

Well, I just gave my inlaws the bowl a few hours ago. They loved it! Of course, I could have given them a block of wood and put some stain on it, and they would love it (because I made it...). But as they were unwrapping it (yes, I wrapped it :) ) their eyes got like saucers, and both at the same time said, "Did you make this?". Nuttin' like appreciative family to make you feel good. Funny, I've had two appreciative families make me feel good about this bowl now... Thanks everyone.