LV Plow Plane

[Mike Holbrook]

I am about to order one of these bad boys and I see that they are available in right and left hand models. Is it as simple as ordering right handed if I am right handed or are there other considerations?

[Jon Toebbe]

More or less. If you've got a board with reversing grain and tear-out in your grooves is becoming a problem having both makes it possible to work from both directions. I've got the left-handed version and pick rail/stile material with straight grain. I'd start with your dominant-hand version and see if your work requires the other. I'd guess not based on my experience, but YMMV.

[Bill Houghton]

Sort of...this reply is partly a Public Service Announcement for other left handed folks reading this thread.

I'm left handed, but have used traditional right handed fenced planes (Stanley 45, Stanley 78, etc.) for enough years that I think I'd have a hard time adapting to a left handed plane. I bought the LV Plow back when right handed was the only choice, but did not feel a strong need to buy the leftie version when it was issued. To date, having just one hasn't been a problem.

Maybe not so critical if you plan to buy LV fenced planes only, since they're strongly committed to planes in both hands.

They're even working on some for the amibdextrous: http://www.woodcentral.com/woodworking/forum/handtools.pl?pro=search;pmd=sread;srchid=30415HSgv 7ayHp39STYp1324578025;spage=1;sanc=154395;sbid=300 0;md=read;id=154395#m_154395

[bob blakeborough]

The right and left are more about grain direction and tear out prevention, but if you are buying only one, go for the most dominant hand, and if you run into tear out issues on a piece of wood, there are ways to deal with it...

BTW... You will LOVE this plane! :cool:

[David Weaver]

If the neatness of the edges of a groove is an issue, score the groove with a marking guage or whatever you have handy ahead of time. If there's tearout below the marking knife line, nobody will ever see it.

I can't remember if there's a nicker on these planes or not (like there are on dado planes), but if there is, this is a good time to use use. Pull the plane backwards a swipe or two before staring to cut the groove, just like you'd do with a dado plane. I somehow doubt there's enough luck that the nicker is on both sides of the iron on any of the planes around that aren't dado planes, but if there is one nicker, you can use a knife gauge to define one line and let the nicker do the work on the other.

If the tearout is just unbearable, lighten the cut a little bit.

Buying plows to cut both directions is a bit over the top, and unless LV mentions something about tearout prevention, they probably have two to satisfy screaming lefty beginners who haven't been forced to use old right-handed planes for a while.

[bob blakeborough]

If the neatness of the edges of a groove is an issue, score the groove with a marking guage or whatever you have handy ahead of time. If there's tearout below the marking knife line, nobody will ever see it.

If the tearout is just unbearable, lighten the cut a little bit.

Buying plows to cut both directions is a bit over the top, and unless LV mentions something about tearout prevention, they probably have two to satisfy screaming lefty beginners who haven't been forced to use old right-handed planes for a while.

This ^^^

But really... When could you ever accuse a woodworker of ever going over the top? lol! Neeeevvvvver!

[David Weaver]

I can't say I'm innocent of it, either. I've got the planes under control, but experimentation with the sharpening stones.... each time I buy one, it's "the last one"....until the next last one :)

Just don't want people to believe that the only way to mitigate tearout issues is to buy another plane.

[bob blakeborough]

I can't say I'm innocent of it, either. I've got the planes under control, but experimentation with the sharpening stones.... each time I buy one, it's "the last one"....until the next last one :)

Just don't want people to believe that the only way to mitigate tearout issues is to buy another plane.

Totally agreed...

[Mike Holbrook]

Great info as always guys. I am kinda ambidextrous & dyslexic, so when I started looking at the pictures I got a little "bum fuggled" as to which way I would be comfortable using the plane, figuring I wanted one hand on the plane handle and one holding the fence against the work piece. Then I started wondering if it was possible that right handed people might be more comfortable with the "left handed" plane....Since I use mostly right handed tools I will go with the right handed plow plane.

One other thing that makes me curious is Lee Valley labels this a "Small" Plow Plane, even though I do not find a standard or large Plow Plane. Maybe this just refers to the size grooves it is designed to cut, smaller grooves actually being used most frequently?

[Bill Houghton]

One other thing that makes me curious is Lee Valley labels this a "Small" Plow Plane, even though I do not find a standard or large Plow Plane. Maybe this just refers to the size grooves it is designed to cut, smaller grooves actually being used most frequently?

LV describes this plane as being about the size of the Record 044 plow. I think they are leaving themselves maneuvering room for a planned larger-framed plow and/or combination plane. If I recall correctly, they introduced the medium shoulder plane before they introduced the large one.

[bob blakeborough]

Mike - I imagine it is for the reasons you describe but I am not sure as such. It is available with blades at 3/8th which is pretty darn good for a drawer/box bottom. In metric I think they even have a 10mm which is larger even still...

[Jim Belair]

... and LV has recently leaked that they will be coming out with a bed extension and wider blades for the Small Plow. That and some basic molding cutters with a retrofit center section required. I might have the details a bit off but I'm close. Maybe the big guy who leaks most of LVs stuff will chime in.

Jim B

[Mike Holbrook]

I think we are in agreement that the title "Small Plow Plane" may be a hint of larger possibly more feature rich planes down the road. I believe I bought the medium shoulder plane just before the large one came out which is why I started wondering. Still I think we are in agreement that the Small Plow Plane is capable of handling the full range of standard grooves for cabinet backs & drawer bottoms.

[Todd Hyman]

I think we are in agreement that the title "Small Plow Plane" may be a hint of larger possibly more feature rich planes down the road. I believe I bought the medium shoulder plane just before the large one came out which is why I started wondering. Still I think we are in agreement that the Small Plow Plane is capable of handling the full range of standard grooves for cabinet backs & drawer bottoms.

At WIA this past October, some of the LV representatives informed me that they are working on larger blades (I think up to 1/2 or 5/8") and that the current plow plane will be adaptable to them. Should be out sometime in 2012!

[Tony Zaffuto]

The LV small plough is a great plane to have and a joy to use (I have the RH model, with my right hand being dominant). I also have a Record 43 and several Stanley 45's. I don't know if it was because of the overall smallness of the 43, but I had more tear out issues with it. I found the Stanley 45 much easier to use, although I still had some minor tear out. With the LV tear out (if any is minimal). It is also the most comfortable of the planes mentioned to use.

[Andrew Teich]

Hopefully the large one will also be adept at the small grooves as well as large grooves and moldings. I remembered reading Rob's posts about this when looking into a possible plow plane. Budget constraints and turbulence at work have put acquisitions on hold for now so maybe it'll be out by the time I'm able to afford it.

Post 17
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?151453-PLOUGH-plane&p=1550451&highlight=#post1550451

Post 11
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?145950-3-planes-that-I-wish-were-being-made&p=1487333&highlight=#post1487333

[Chris Griggs]

I think we are in agreement that the title "Small Plow Plane" may be a hint of larger possibly more feature rich planes down the road.

Rob has mentioned a few times here that they are developing a large plow, but he always says that it's always at least 10 mos to a year away. IIRC he once mentioned that in addition to being a "large" plow plane, it is also going to have molding and/or beading irons. I get the impression that it's been put on the back burner or a while, and that they are more focused on getting their chisels released at the moment. The additions to the small plow kinda make me wonder if they are going to scrap the large plow entirely...

Anyway, the small plow is also at the top of my wish list - here's hoping Santa is feeling extra generous this year. Really I think the small plow would be all most folks would need for furniture work, especially if you have a dedicated rabbet plane. While I can think of occasions where 1/2" or greater groove might be needed, seems to me that the vast majority of grooves out there are 1/4" in both small and med/largish furniture.

EDIT: Just saw that Andrew linked to the posts that I was referring to.

EDIT 2: Funny, one of those links was from a thread I posted over a year ago talking about 3 planes that I wish someone would develop. Looking at that thread now some of those idea's actually seem quite silly to me now. Not a single one of the planes I "wished" for in the original post from the that thread are things I would still want were they available. Oh my how things change.

[Jack Curtis]

I am about to order one of these bad boys and I see that they are available in right and left hand models. Is it as simple as ordering right handed if I am right handed or are there other considerations?

I don't know about LV's plow planes specifically, but usually when right and left handed planes are made it's to handle grain in a specific situation. This is easier to see when looking at LN's Side Rebate planes (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=99). Let's say you need to clean up the sides of a dado, in which one could assume the grain runs one way; but you've got to clean up both sides planing with that grain. Each side rebate plane only works in one direction. Thus the right/left designation/design.

Now take look at LN's Skew Block planes (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=140). Let's say you use these planes to clean up tenons; but the plane is only rebated on one side. You need both handed versions to avoid spelch and also clean up the tenon/shoulder area.

Jack, who's also non-right handed

[Rob Lee]

Hi -

A few quick replies to some comments in this thread:

1) Hand - we are making RH and LH planes for two reasons.... with a skewed blade, there can be an advantage to having both to suit different grain conditions - hence RH and LH planes. For planes that have an assymetric grip (like the plow) we make RH and LH so the user can suit their grip preference... we do not recommend buying both (but won't stop you!). So we have RH and LH versions for functional reasons, and RH and LH for ergonomic reasons.

2) Small plow - yes, the name should lead you to think that there will be another size, and we are working on a large plow. It's a complex plane - nickers, stops, fences etc., and is going to be more for profile work. At the same time - we have decided to expand the the range of function of the small plow in a manner that is completely backwards compatible. it will allow for wider blades to be held, and we will introduce a range of tongue and groove blades for use on thin material.

There's always lots of pots on the stove here...

Cheers -

Rob

[Mark Baldwin III]

Awesome! Making my favorite plane even better!

[David Weaver]

I don't know about LV's plow planes specifically, but usually when right and left handed planes are made it's to handle grain in a specific situation. This is easier to see when looking at LN's Side Rebate planes (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=99). Let's say you need to clean up the sides of a dado, in which one could assume the grain runs one way; but you've got to clean up both sides planing with that grain. Each side rebate plane only works in one direction. Thus the right/left designation/design.

Now take look at LN's Skew Block planes (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=140). Let's say you use these planes to clean up tenons; but the plane is only rebated on one side. You need both handed versions to avoid spelch and also clean up the tenon/shoulder area.

Jack, who's also non-right handed

Buying the skew rabbet planes or the skew block planes in both directions makes some sense if you're going to use them a lot, because they're leaving a visible finished surface on some job.

And (I think) I'm not just saying that because I have both of the skew rebate planes....:o I haven't used the lefty version yet, though, and I got them when they were on special (deal for the pair) as newly introduced planes.

[Mike Holbrook]

Rob, thanks for giving us that update. Glad I placed the order for the Plow Plane, Rabbet Plane & a ton of accessories for the bench I am working on yesterday, free shipping even. LV is always there with new and interesting selections for us to select from, thanks Rob.

[Chris Griggs]

There's always lots of pots on the stove here...


I always love what you guys are serving. Thanks for the update. The small plow add ons seem especially cool and useful.

Sounds like the large plow and small plow will actually complement each other not compete with each other. You are indeed a crafty, crafty man:D

[Archie England]

I always love what you guys are serving. Thanks for the update. The small plow add ons seem especially cool and useful.

Sounds like the large plow and small plow will actually complement each other not compete with each other. You are indeed a crafty, crafty man:D

Spoken like a man looking forward to owning one or both! :)

[Chris Griggs]

Buying the skew rabbet planes or the skew block planes in both directions makes some sense if you're going to use them a lot, because they're leaving a visible finished surface on some job.


Having the RH only, I can definitely see the benefit of having both handed skews. The lefty certainly isn't a need and I won't be running out to get it anytime soon, but it would definitely be nice to have. Having only the RH skew means that I need to take a lighter cut then is ideal the fifty percent of the that I'm going against the grain. Not a big deal by any stretch up the imagination, but again, having both would definitely be nice. If I were cutting a ton of raised panels and long grain rabbets or on some sort of production timeline for my work, having both would be worthwhile. Then again, if that were the case, it might be better to just get a decent table saw and a dado stack.

[Chris Griggs]

Spoken like a man looking forward to owning one or both! :)

There's a reason I'm not planning on having kids anytime soon.... :D.

[Orlando Gonzalez]

Well you can always postpone your upcoming event and buy more tools, and stones, with all the money you will save. :D

I had and sold the LV plow and LH/RH skew rabbets planes. Nice planes, well made, and highly functional. I opted for the Record 044 (8 blades), 043 (3 blades), and 3 wooden plows with 16 blades (2 full sets). To replace the skew rabbet planes I got the LH/RH Moving Filisters from Phil Edwards of Philly Planes. I'm much happier now. :) ;)

BTW if you want to extend the reach of the LV small plow plane all you have to do is buy the extension rods for the LV skew rabbet planes. The thread is the same.

[Mike Holbrook]

Orlando, where have you been? I have not seen you around since Blum Planes & Sigma Power Stones were the topics of the moment. Orlando you should only buy tools from Gramercy as Joel is glad to let you send them back for a full refund.

[Jim Leslie]

Outstanding! I bought one of these a few weeks ago and love it! I look forward to the large one now..

[Orlando Gonzalez]

Hey Mike,

Been traveling in different astrological dimensions. I've bought from Joel before and will again when the itch hits again. Nothing wrong with the LV stuff I just prefer vintage and wooden planes.

[Mike Holbrook]

Orlando,
I hear you. You know I like the wooden planes too. I looked & looked at auctions and did not find much that did not scare me in terms of it functioning as expected. I did find some custom wood planes of this type but they were a little bit much for a guy trying to build a hand tool shop quick.

Good to see you touch down in this dimension. it is good to hear from people who have tried as many options as you have.