Attaching cleats to poured concrete

[Bob Johnson2]

Nothing I've used in the past seems to hold especially well when attaching anything to poured concrete, of course it's been a long time since I've had to try. Looking to make and attached a few clamp racks and some cleating for general use (hanging cabinets, jigs and such). What have you folks used recently that your happy with the performance of?

Thanks in advance.

[Steve Ash]

Bob,
I have used tapcon fasteners when I am fastening walls to concrete floors(I'm a building contractor) If I am fastening a handrail to concrete I also use them on the wall, however I have not used them to fasten anything that will hold great loads. I think the shear strength is fine, just not certain about what the properties are for tear out. Try a search on Tapcon fasteners, perhaps you can find more info there.
Good luck!

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Bob,

I have had VERY good luck with the Remmington, cement fasteners. What it does is fire a 22 shell to power a nail into concrete. I have had to "pull" one out and it would NOT come out, we ended up having to get the grinder to cut it off. If you use the recomended load and nail size, I have never had any problems. The gun can be bought for around $20 and the loads and nails aren't too much money. Very handy!

If you don't want to go that route, as was said the Tapcon's are great!

[Frank Pellow]

I have had good results with the following process:

(1) Drill a hole into the concrete (say 3" deep and 11/16" wide)

(2) Hammer a wet hardwood dowel slightly bigger (say 3/4") than the hole into the cavity.

(3) Let the dowel dry

(4) Screw whatever I want to hold into the dowel.

[Christian Aufreiter]

I have had good results with the following process:

(1) Drill a hole into the concrete (say 3" deep and 11/16" wide)

(2) Hammer a wet hardwood dowel slightly bigger (say 3/4") than the hole into the cavity.

(3) Let the dowel dry

(4) Screw whatever I want to hold into the dowel.

Honestly? Does this really work?
I still prefer Fischer (http://www.fischer.de/) and Tox (http://www.tox.de/index.htm) dowels.

Regards,

Christian

[Joe Scarfo]

I've done the dowel in the pre drilled hole and it's worked very very well.

Tks
Joe in Valrico.... the nearest suburb of anysize is Tampa

[Frank Pellow]

Honestly? Does this really work?
I still prefer Fischer (http://www.fischer.de/) and Tox (http://www.tox.de/index.htm) dowels.

Regards,

Christian
It really works. :) Over the years, I have probably made at least 100 anchors this way in at least 25 different projects. I can't recall any failures.

[Bob Johnson2]

Sounds like a good time for a couple experiments. The dowel idea is unique, definitely not something I would have though of.
I tried the Remington a few times but they seem to break loose most of the time, usually as soon as I did them. I'll take a look at the fasteners to see if anything has changed since I used one.
After looking at the Tapcon screws I see I have used them with good results in the past, they are rated for light/medium weights.
I'll try a couple of the ideas and see what holds best when I try to pull them out.

Thanks

[Chris Padilla]

Frank,

That is a darn interesting idea. I think one thing to keep in mind is the concrete is not watertight...i.e. I see a potential for those wooden dowels to possibly succumb to water infusion and rot. However, I still like the idea. Afterall, the Greeks used small wooden blocks as keys to keep their marble columns together as they built them up. A fair amount of them survived just fine.

[Rob Russell]

Lead lag shields and lag bolts have a lot of holding power. Drill a hole, push in the lag shield and screw in the whatever-it-is-you-want-to-attach with a lag bolt. I've used these to hang some Unistrut brackets that are holding a series of roller units and they are heavy. I'm not at all worried about them coming down.

[Tyler Howell]

Frank's Suggestion is pretty old, been around....... Longer than he has:D :D .

My 100 yo and 120 yo houses are filled with them in the basement walls. Had to work up a sweat to get a some of them loose. some are just chunks of fir shaped to to fit the hand drilled (mall and chisel) holes.;)

[Rob Blaustein]

Bob,
I recently bought some material from Lee Valley to hang shelves off a concrete wall and they recommend Hilti bolts. Haven't put them up yet though, so can't vouch for them. But check out the Lee Valley page (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?page=32145&category=1,43326&ccurrency=1&sid=) on this. Here's the Hilti site (http://www.us.hilti.com/holus/modules/editorial/edit_singlepage.jsp?contentOID=118037). Hope this helps.
Rob

[Bryan Nuss]

Hilti bolts are the Cadillac of anchor bolts, but are very, very good if installed per manufacturer's instructions (either expansion types or epoxied). I know this for a fact, having once tested about 400 1" diameter bolts of various types and make in the field during construction. They are pricey. We have used thousands of them to anchor heavy equipment, pipe hangers, cable trays, etc.

There are several other manufacturers who make less expensive bolts which would more than likely serve your purpose.

For use in the shop to anchor shelving, cabinets and equipment I would suggest small diameter (3/8" or 5/16" or maybe even 1/4") expansion type bolts, depending on your loads. They work best in shear and are not the best in tension (especially under a vibrating load).

Look in the Yellow Pages under "fasteners" for suppliers. The manufacturer's website will usually give you all sorts of info on load capacity, hole diameters and hole depths.

I would tend to stay away from explosive-actuated tools unless you have had a certificate course in their use. They are dangerous if not used correctly.

Having said all that, I really like Frank's dowels!

[Wes Bischel]

Yep, Frank's suggestion has been used widely. My 1950's house had various items mounted through the wall tile and floor tile. Another old one, when water was an issue is lead wool. I'm not sure it is available anymore though.

I have a few cabinets in the shop mounted with Tapcons, though they are only 10" deep and don't hold a heavy load. The heavy cabinets are held with lag sheild anchors.

Good luck, Wes

[Fred Hubert]

I've used the Hilti type bolts to attach a shed to the cement slab foundation and I found them to be very strong. The ones I used were Red Head brand if I recall correctly, purchased at the local Home Depot.

However, I'm about to install some cleats in my basement for cabinets and I likely won't use these because I think they are overkill and, more important to me, they may require more precise drilling locations than I want to bother with while working solo. Granted I could make the holes in the cleat oversize and rely on a fender washer...

Thanks to Frank's suggestion, whether his idea or not I'm giving him credit for posting it first, I think I may drill holes and fill them with construction adhesive instead of wooden dowels.
FWIW, I was unsuccessful with the powder actuated fasteners for one previous project.

~ Fred

[Frank Pellow]

... I think I may drill holes and fill them with construction adhesive instead of wooden dowels.
...
~ Fred
That's an interesting variation. Please let us know how it works out.

[Ed Weiser]

I used powder actuated fasteners for my entire basement to attach pressure-treated plates (2 x 4) to concrete to erect walls. They seem to work best for wood over the concrete rather than fasteners directly into concrete. The least expensive Remington runs about $75 in the borgs. I had very few failures. If you follow the instructions and wear the proper ear and eye protection you should be fine. I don't think they're any more hazardous than most of the power tools we work with every day. The effort involved with the use of PAF's is a lot less than drilling alot of holes in concrete, especially OLD concrete which tends to be very hard and may have very dense aggregate (not the crushed limestone often used more recently here in Georgia.) I think the decision would be based on can you justify the expense of the tool versus the effort/work to drill alot of holes. Just my 2 cents...

[Randy Meijer]

I see those Remington tools in pawn shops pretty regularly for not too much money. If you are planning on setting a hundred anchors, the Remington is probably well worth the money even if you have to buy it new while if you are only setting half a dozen anchors, drilling them may be the better solution???