Is poplar not a good choice for working with??

[Duane Bledsoe]

I've noticed recently while building a few small things that whenever I use poplar wood the brad nails seem to deflect and come out the surface of the wood instead of going where I want them to. It's only been a problem with the 2" long wire nails (shorter ones seem ok) but it's a problem I need to solve because some of what I make needs the 2" length nails. I don't have a lot of experience with nail guns other than framing nailers and 2x4 studs so the brad gun is fairly new to me. Every project I've worked on using pine has been fine, but poplar seems to be harder wood and the nails just don't shoot straight in, they curve and come out the sides, sometimes in a place where they show and have to be clipped off and wood filled to fix the damage. If this is common for this type of tool then how would I ever build anything from oak, which is a pretty hard wood?? Or is it just some characteristic of poplar??

[Todd Burch]

I use a ton of poplar, and anytime the nail comes out the side, it was an operator error for me (ala - holding the nail gun at the wrong angle or shooting straight into a knot. Poplar is a pretty soft hardwood (or is for the most part - every now and again I'll get a pretty dense piece). Probably one of the most used hardwoods - I would imagine poplar gets nailed several million times a day.

What gauge nails are you shooting? What is the thickness you are nailing through when using 2" nails?

One thing to consider is that some of the gauges of nails are more rectangular in shape. Have you tried to turn the nail gun to cause the nail to be perpendicular to the grain instead of parallel?

Todd

[Larry Edgerton]

Wait till you try douglas fir!

Todd is right, there is something in what you are doing that is not right. Poplar is the easiest wood to work with there is. You don't say what brand gun you have but it sounds like you need to find an old Senco SFN1. I tried others but have used Senco for 30 years. Its the nails for me.

[Peter Quinn]

My guess, you are using an 18ga nailer to shoot 2" nails near the edge of the wood? If so the problem is you. Stay off the edge, angle the gun away from the edge at an angle the is conspicuously across the grain, step up to a 16ga nailer, or use shorter brads and reinforce the joints with glue. You would never try to hand bang 2" 18ga brads, they would bend every time in hardwood. Poplar is soft, but it's a lot more dense than pine and needs to be treated more like a hardwood from a nailing perspective. I find it's pretty easy to work with relative to most hard wood species. Ever try nailing maple?

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Todd is right about the orientation of the nail with respect to the grain. The end of the nail will be filed sharp just from one side - it looks like a little chisel. If the sharp edge is going along (with) the grain, it's more likely to be carried along with any changes in the grain. You should turn the nailer so the chisel edge is *across* the grain, so it cuts through the grain.

[Bill Orbine]

A few years ago, I was having problems with nails blowing out the sides. It was a bad problem until I flipped the bar of nails around in my nailer(front to back, back to front) and noted the nails blowing out the other side of the woodwork. Got a new box of nails a different brand and problem solved. Old box was sold to me by a once reputable pnuematic nailer company who went on the cheap and started selling only cheapo "what brand is it?" chinese junk instead of the usual name brand items such as Senco or Botstitch.

[Duane Bledsoe]

The nails are 18 gauge Bostitch but the gun it a Harbor Freight special (I have a Craftsman I could use, but seem to prefer the other one). I like the gun and never have a problem with it up until I use poplar with 2" nails, but I did notice that some of what these guys said is my problem. I was putting together a little craft picture frame to look like a window sash. I had 1 1/2" x 3/4" wood pieces to form a square frame outside, mitered in the corner, with the 1 1/2" side being the face (a face frame essentially). I was shooting the corners together from outside on the 3/4" edge so the nail crosses the miter and the 2" nail kept coming through in places it wasn't supposed to. I could have used a shorter size closer to the very outside of the corner where the wood was narrower across but I was shooting two nails in each corner to help prevent twisting of the joint and the nail closer to the inside had to cross more wood in order to hit the other adjoining piece. Then I also had some 3/4" square rods to form the grid in the middle and I had to shoot 2" nails in from the same 3/4" edge, crossing the 1 1/2" width, to catch the end of the 3/4" grid in the middle, and even then the nail would only penetrate about 1/2" so I had to use 2" nails to make it work.

Normally here I'd suppose a mortise and tenon would work well, but it was a little craft project for attaching fabric on the back side of and mortise and tenons would just have been a lot of work and taken too long. I didn't even half lap the two grid pieces in the middle. I simply ran one from top to bottom and then cut two short ones to come from each side and butt joint in the middle and then used staples on the back side to hold them together. I suppose for the mitered corners that biscuits would have been the way to go, but I don't have a biscuit joiner yet either.

I was mainly trying to come up with a way to make these things quickly as opposed to spending a lot of time on just one. I wanted to make them and sell them. She has one hanging on the wall already that she bought at a store, not exactly like what I made but it is supposed to resemble a window sash also and it's built just like what I was doing so someone was successful at making it that way and I thought it would work for me too.

My impression of poplar was that it was soft also so I thought it would be a great choice, but the nails coming through all the time was nerve wracking. So I'll chalk it up to operator error and try to prevent it in the future, maybe find better methods even if it does take longer, and get a biscuit joiner, I want one anyway.

[Duane Bledsoe]

By the way, I did actually manage to make it work with what I think are beautiful results. It has the look I wanted it to have, these should sell well when made. My wife loves it. Here's a pic to prove it happened.

216836216837

[Troy Turner]

Duane -

Glad you got it to work for ya'. For the thickness/width of the pieces, might want to consider a pocket hole jig. I know you're looking for a quick, knock it out, kind of solution. There's not much to using one and it seems this piece would have saved you alot of headaches with snipping and filling blowouts. You could even use them to attached the grids with no problems too.

Good luck!

[glenn bradley]

2" long x 18ga is going to be sensitive to operator "influence" more so than shorter brads just due to their nature; same gauge, longer length = more flexible under leverage. The best cure for brad-nailer problems for me is just not to use one :D. I do use them on shop fixtures and such and like others have said; when I have issues, it is usually that I have been a little casual with my aim. I find poplar to be fairly agreeable to work with as far as softer woods go. I wish I would have used it for my workbench base instead of Doug-fir.

[Todd Burch]

Cool! Looking very "Americana"

Todd

[johnny means]

One more little thing is that nails tend to deflect to the left and right of the gun. Hold the gun perpendicular to the piece being nailed and it will still deflect, but it will still be in the wood.

[Duane Bledsoe]

One more little thing is that nails tend to deflect to the left and right of the gun. Hold the gun perpendicular to the piece being nailed and it will still deflect, but it will still be in the wood.

AH, that's worth knowing!! I had it sideways shooting into it, the frame was laying on the bench and I was just bending over and lining up with it where it was comfortable so the gun was up and down with the frame. I will most definitely remember that.

[Peter J Lee]

Even using good technique, I've seen every gauge of air nailer take a turn now and then, sometimes at almost a right angle, with the exception of a pin nailer I guess. Two inches is a lot for a nail that thin as well.

One thing I do as I don't have a biscuit joiner, coveted Domino or even the equipment to do mortise and tenon, is use nails for a situation like that. On a piece like yours, I'd drill a hole about an inch deep where I planned to join the crossmember. Then I'd put a nail in there and clip it off just a bit longer than the hole. Pull it out and flip it around so the point is out. Fit the crossmembers in a dry fit. Drill holes where the nail tip left an impression. Take another nail and clip off the head to the length to fill the holes. It can be a bit longer or shorter and you don't even have to be exact with the angle the holes are drilled. Its not as fast as a nail gun but it doesn't take long. Add glue and it would be plenty strong.

I'd like to think of it as using Tage Frid's "steel dowels," but its probably better described as Mad Max does woodworking.

Since you're mimicking window sashes, I'd be tempted to skip mitering the corners as well.

[David Hostetler]

FWIW, 19 ga is awfully thin for 2" brad nails... For 2" I wouldn't trust anything smaller than 16 ga... Especially in hardwoods...

Nails, brads and whatnot will tend to deflect right or left of the tip of the gun, if you are close to the edge, turn the gun so that the deflection will still be in the wood instead of blowing out the side.

Of the nails, brads, and pins I have tried, I have actually so far had excellent results with the pieces from Harbor Freight. My more recent Bostitch brad purchases have been disappointing (jams the gun up, won't fully seat etc...), Senco always works well for me...

[Don Jarvie]

Make sure you using at least 100 pounds of air. When I'm at 100 I have no issues and use poplar all the time. Once the compressor gets to 80 before it cycles, it starts to blow them out the side and not set the head correct.

[James Carmichael]

I'm with Glenn, don't use brads.

Poplar is extremely easy to work. I've never seen the trees, but they must look like utility poles, the boards are always clear with arrow-straight grain. Makes great drawer sides.

[Jim Becker]

I build a lot with poplar and have another 1500 bd ft just about dry and ready to add to the racks. I don't generally have the issue you describe without it being more of an "operator" error issue and it's not really related to poplar since it can happen with any species of wood.

[Carl Babel]

You might try putting splines in the corners. Wood magazine shows a pretty simple jig here:
http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/tablesaw/realign-your-splines/

although they are getting fancy results by tilting the blade.

[Duane Bledsoe]

You've never seen the trees?? How is that possible?? You're right though, they do look like utility poles, but on steroids. Around here they get 150 feet high and as thick as 2' or better in diameter at the base.

I have noticed gun jamming a lot, but I had not given it much thought to what brand it might be. The 2" is the only one that does it and that's the only Bostitch I have. All other sizes are Harbor Freight. Now you got me wondering....

I think I will skip the miters on the next one I do and see how it looks. Sounds like it will eliminate some hassles not having to miter anyway.