Next shaper question--starter set of cutters

[Matt Meiser]

Since I'm buying a small shaper I guess that means I'll need some cutters too. Obviously most will come as projects need them but I'm looking for ideas on a starter set.

Heres what I'm kind of thinking:
45 degree chamfer
2" rabbeting w rub collar for template work
????

I've got an upcoming project that a 1/4" tongue and groove set would be nice as well as a straight raised panel cutter but I also may be able to borrow those.

The Infinity cutters seem to get good reviews and aren't badly priced so I was looking there.

[Peter Quinn]

Amana's profile pro set gives you a good number of basic profiles and some molding options as well in a format well suited to a small shaper. The initial investment is probably the most cost effective I can think of. A number of companies sell similar "euro block" sets that are nearly if not exactly identical, such as CMT's set. I'm use mine a lot. They have a number of tongue and groove knife options, several cabinet door knives, and even a cove and bead passage door set that works well. Worth a look, they offer some starter sets bundled with head and knives.


You might call Rangate to see if they have any Garniga rabbit heads left on sale. They had a sale going on 50MMX100MM rabbit heads, but it was a year end limited numbers type of thing. Sale ends Dec 22 according to the email I got. The profile pro set has straight knives for rabbiting as well but a proper rabbit head with spurs works a bit better with less tearout.

I have a number of sets from Infinity and they all work well. One of the best values in 3/4" tooling in my experience. Not the cheapest, but the quality is quite a bit higher than some of the stuff I have seen from the cheaper sellers. I have not tried their insert tooling. Do open their stuff with caution, its some of the most ridiculously sharp tooling beneath the rubber coating. DAMHIK

Otherwise I can't think of any sets per se available. I've been very happy with the Freud RP2000 for panels. Its a fairly light head that spins well on my smaller shaper, razor sharp carbide inserts, nice profile options. For 3 wing braised heads Amana are some of the best value I've encountered in either 3/4" or 1 1/4", Freeborne is always great and the whole line is available in either bore mostly, can't go wrong there.

Both Byrd and Schmidt have corrugated back heads in 3/4" bore in different heights for molding knives should you need custom patterns. Grizzly does too, haven't tried those.

[Larry Edgerton]

Peter nailed it!

A great big ditto on the insert tooling. Took me too long to get into it.

Larry

[Matt Meiser]

Sorry, when I said set I didn't mean all in one box, but more along the lines of what cutters are must-haves. I'll check out the insert sets.

I also bought Lonnie Bird's shaper book last night on Kindle so I can learn a little more.

[Cary Falk]

Mat, I have several Invinity cutters. During sales thay are pretty cheap. I am happy with them. I do have the 2" rabbiting cutter wit a rub collar for pattern cutting. I buy them as I need them or if something goes on sale that I think I might need. I use router bits for everything else.

[Matt Meiser]

I just checked out that Amana profile pro and that looks like it would definitely be the way to go. Other than the big rabbet cuttter and raised panels, it looks like it would do possibly everything I'd want. The aluminum head is about $110 and knives are $30-40 each after that.

Someone mentioned aluminum vs. steel heads in another thread and suggested aluminum for a 1-1/2HP shaper. That seems counter-intuitive to me--seems like the flywheel effect of a steel head would be a good thing. Can someone explain?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Matt, I second the insert head purchase, make sure you buy one with chip limiters, and that is marked "MAN" for manual feeding.

Felder have a cutter sale on now, see what they are offering.

I would suggest The Spindle Moulder Handbook by stephenson, it's the only up to date shaper book I've found, the other two common books are decades out of date on safety aspects.

I have an OMAS 125 X 50 rebate head, with a couple of bearing collars for use as a template copying head and a rebate head.

The steel head is what I own, however I have a 4 HP machine.

Regards, Rod.

[Matt Meiser]

I can't find where Felder says what the bore on their heads is?

Are the knives all made to a standard? Meaning can a Felder head use Amana knives?

[Cary Falk]

Hi Matt, I second the insert head purchase, make sure you buy one with chip limiters, and that is marked "MAN" for manual feeding.

Regards, Rod.

Rod,
Can you explain to me why. I am interested in a similar head and noticed the "limiter" notation and couldn't find an info.
Thanks,
Cary

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, the EU standards for tooling are more advanced than ours in North America.

The cutters are marked "MEC" or "MAN" for mechanical feed or manual (hamd) feeding.

The main issue with hand feeding is kickback, so cutters for hand feeding have chip limiters installed, the same principle as chip limiters on saw blades. For a profile cutter, obviously the chip limiter has to be the same shape as the cutting knife, so a head will have two knives, and two chip limiters installed.

Note that this also applies to other hand fed machines such as jointers. My Euro jointer has a head marked MAN and it has very little knife projection, this is the other key, make cutters as smooth as possible so they don't grab something.

These advanced cutter safety standards will eventually make there way here, no sense not buying a safer cutter now..............Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

216706216707216708

Hi Matt, most cutters of course will be 30 mm bore as most of the world is metric.

If you select a cutter and click on the image in their catalogue it provides more info, I've included a couple of images.

Felder also sell 1 1/4" bore cutters at significantly more cost.

A set of adapters for 30mm to your shaper spindle would be inexpensive, and allow you to buy metric cutters.

The cutters will have their information displayed in this format.

DIA SQ W dia T Z
100 HW 50 30 23 Z2/V4

DIA = cutter diameter in mm

SQ = cutter type HW= carbide

W= Cutter height in mm

dia = bore in mm or in inches if 1 1/4 is stated

T= cutting depth in mm

Z2/Z4 means number of profile cutters (2) and number of scribing cutters (4)

Note in the first cutter image that the T is 23 mm, not D as indicated.

Regards, Rod.

[Jeff Monson]

I'm with the majority on this one also. I have the Amana profile pro set, cuts great and is a really nice starter set. The shaper tooling I buy now is all insert tooling.

[Jeff Monson]

Matt I forgot to mention, I do have a large Felder rebate cutter with the rub collar set also. Works great for template work. I saw that in your post and forgot to comment, as Rod pointed out they have a sale on tooling now. I bought mine in 1 1/4" bore and it was not that expensive.

[Peter Quinn]

Here is a good deal on an example of an aluminum rabbit head. It's much easier for a smaller motor to power a lighter cutter, saves more energy for making the actual cut.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000P4LMW6/ref=redir_mdp_mobile?tag=minipage-20

[David Kumm]

Matt, with little experience on a smaller shaper I would avoid heavy steel heads in 1.25" or 30mm bore. The quill assemblies in larger shapers are constructed to handle the spinning weight. The 3/4 spindle is there for a reason. 3/4" cutters are the appropriate size for the machine. There are enough scary things going on with shapers without dealing with overweight heads. You also must check your speed choices as smaller machines often run faster as the larger cutters need less speed. Dave

[Randy Henry]

For the guys with the Amana Profile Pro set, what diameter heads are you using? I called my local distributor and they have them in the 1 1/4" bore that I need, but they have two to choose from, 4" and 4 3/4" dia. I have a 5hp shaper, and it can handle most cutters that I have seen. There is a little bit of a price difference in the 2 cuttter heads. What are the advantages with the larger one, I know there will be more tip speed on the larger one, but enough to make any difference?

[Matt Meiser]

OK, I'm thinking about getting into the Amana system with the aluminum head and a couple of the multi-profile knives and the one that does a 45 degree V which would meet my needs for beveling pretty much anything I've ever done. And I'm thinking I'll get the rabbetting head Peter linked above assuming there's a rub collar that will work for it.

Someone PM'd me and offered a rail/stile set free for shipping costs so I'm taking him up on that.

And my friend selling me the shaper is going to throw in some extra cutters he has, but I'm not sure what yet.

[Peter Quinn]

OK, I'm thinking about getting into the Amana system with the aluminum head and a couple of the multi-profile knives and the one that does a 45 degree V which would meet my needs for beveling pretty much anything I've ever done. And I'm thinking I'll get the rabbetting head Peter linked above assuming there's a rub collar that will work for it.

Someone PM'd me and offered a rail/stile set free for shipping costs so I'm taking him up on that.

And my friend selling me the shaper is going to throw in some extra cutters he has, but I'm not sure what yet.

Matt, thats listed as a 100MM head, so a bearing should be easy. The insert knives are pretty standard too. I'm using Amana's bearing system on a 125MM garniga head. Basically you buy one bearing at around $50, then you have aluminum collars that slip over those which give you lots of size options. These work well for the profile pro set too should you want to do radius work with those. THey are mostly metric sizes but they also offer a few SAE collars too. Or you could just buy a regular 100MM bearing with 3/4" ID too. I know Weaver has those listed, others probably do too.

[Peter Quinn]

For the guys with the Amana Profile Pro set, what diameter heads are you using? I called my local distributor and they have them in the 1 1/4" bore that I need, but they have two to choose from, 4" and 4 3/4" dia. I have a 5hp shaper, and it can handle most cutters that I have seen. There is a little bit of a price difference in the 2 cutter heads. What are the advantages with the larger one, I know there will be more tip speed on the larger one, but enough to make any difference?

Amana actually has 3 sizes, 88MM (3 1/2") which I have several of, and the two you listed. I've had good results with the 88MM heads for all edge shaping. I suppose if you wanted to be able to reach in deep to make a multi profile stacked molding using multiple cuts it might be helpful to have the larger size head, and I can think of no reason the smaller head would be preferable. I got mine as part of the multi profile starter sets, and thats the head they pair with those kits. Keep in mind that the depth of cut is limited by the thickness of the steel to just over 5/8" regardless of the heads diameter, so these sets don't handle every need. I have some 3/8" thick corrugated back knives that can take a monster cut. I've been using tools today.com, they are fairly local to me and carry the whole Amana line.

[Ron Bontz]

I see there have been many thoughts on cutter heads. I just have the CMT version of the Amana profile pro head with a 3/4" bore. (5 HP shaper) The rail and stile cutters for windows/ passage doors fit very well. Lots of options on cutters. I just wish it were a 3z instead of 2. As far as pattern cutting. I have an Amana cutter head with all the carbide inserts. Similar to the Byrd etc. Comes in different heights as well as bore dia. The bearings for it cost almost as much as the head. Good way to start out, I think. Obviously it is much easier and less expensive to replace the inserts. Best of luck.

[Matt Meiser]

In looking at the Amana catalog last night I noticed the 3/4 bore 68mm head has a warning about only using a couple specific cutters. Next up in their line-up is an 88mm 30mm bore head. CMT has one that is 3-1/8 with a 3/4 bore for about the same price.

I'm second guessing myself now--are these heads too big for a 1.5hp machine?

Plan B would be to stick to carbide cutters. Infinity has a 2" tall 2-5/8" diameter rabetting bit. I could get that and a few shapes to start with in the same price range. Long term that gets more expensive though.

[Rod Sheridan]

Matt, I would expect that the 3 1/8" cutter will be fine for your machine.

The HSS cutters work far better than carbide for solid wood.

Regards, Rod.

[David Kumm]

Matt, resist the impulse to buy cutters before you get the machine home. clean it up, check for runout, use what comes with the machine and get a profile that you will use relatively cheap and work with the machine. You will get a feel for it's capabilities. You may find it does well up to a certain size or weight and then starts to vibrate or chatter a little. I have bought tooling because I'm excited about a new machine only to find out if I had waited I would have made a different decision. Dave

[Ron Bontz]

I don't know if the tip speed between the two is that great. Some thing that I would need to punch out on a calculator. Are you there Rod? I would take a look at the opening size options on your shaper. Some of the insert cutters may or may not fit below the surface if needed. I ran in to this issue with a larger insert head on my Delta 5 hp. I think i now just stay with 4" dia. for the most part. Good luck.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Ron, I believe Matt's new machine would have an 8,000 RPM lower spindle speed which is perfect for his chosen cutterhead.

Regards, Rod.

[Matt Meiser]

According to the manual, the opening size is 5.25". And the spindle speeds are 7000 and 9000 rpm.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Matt, then you should be fine with 9,000 RPM..............Regards, Rod.

[Peter Quinn]

Matt, I read the catalogue again closely, and the page with the aluminum heads has two foot notes on it. The first astrix indicates the 3/4" bore cutter comes with 1/2" bushings as well. The SECOND foot note is indicated by a + symbol and gives info about a different head that takes the 5.5MM system knives. I believe the 68MM head can use all the standard 40MM knives. CMT also sells a variety of 50MM knives which work in these heads as well, though it would be your judgement as to whether or not to take a cut that large with your shaper.

[Peter Quinn]

I found the item numbers for the Amana 3/4" bore profile prohead on the tools today web site, here's a link to amazon that has the multi profile starter set with the 68MM head, 4MM thick knives, a hand full of basic profiles. Not sure why this isn't listed clearly on Amana's site? Tools today also lists another set, scs-1107 in the same bore, different set of cutters, but I can't find a picture of that?


http://www.amazon.com/Amana-SCS-1106-PROFILE-PRO-68MM-SET/dp/B000P4LWNA

Here is a page from the newest Amana catalogue I could find on line. Check out around page 150-152, they explain a bit about aluminum versus steel cutterheads, and they list model numbers for the 68MM profile pro head, which is apparently new.

http://www.amanatool.com/cat2003/Cat137_173.pdf

[david brum]

Something you might also consider for getting your feet wet are a few of the 1/2" cutters from Grizzly. I know that common wisdom says that 1/2" cutters aren't good, but these little guys work great for round overs. You get two profiles on each cutter. Each cutter is around $20. They come very sharp and leave a great finish (in my experience). I wouldn't necessarily use a 1/2" cutter for big cuts where you'd get some chatter from the smaller spindle. For just shaving off corner though, they work great. If your shaper came with all the OEM hardware, you already have the spindle and bushings to run them.
216976216977

[Charles Brown]

Does anyone have experience using the Byrd Tool brand insert cutters for coping and sticking? It appeared to me that it was a cutterhead that had a lot of interchangeable profiles. I'd like to get a rail/stile set on insert cutters but don't want to have to buy a couple of different heads to fit all the different knife profiles. I would prefer just to buy one head and use all the different profiles for that given size stock.

[Matt Meiser]

Things are shaping up nicely, no pun intended. I have one of the CMT insert heads on the way and have been given 2 different sets of cope-stick sets, and a 15-degree raised panel cutter.

What do you guys think about running a 3" diameter 2" high Byrd head on this machine for rabbetting and template work?

[Peter Quinn]

Matt, if it's the shelix heads, I'm thinking that's a fine head for template work, and it will probably work for rabbits too, but I've been told it's not an ideal head for rabbits because it's not designed to make square shoulder cuts on it's edges, and they have no spurs to score the shoulder cut. I have a braised stagger tooth head for template work, kind of like a Byrd head but braised teeth, it's not great for rabbits, I haven't actually tried a Byrd head for rabbits. I used oned for pattern work in another shop and they are sweet for that.

[Rod Sheridan]

Matt, I agree with Peter, for template work a rebate head will be fine, however a Byrd head doesn't have the scoring cutters for rebates.

If I were you I would purchase a standard rebate head with scoring cutters as well................Regards, Rod.

[brad scarbor]

I know this thread is 6 years old, however those of you who have the hss profile heads, do you have any trouble with knicks in your knives similar to planer / jointer knife knicks? After reading this thread I am considering purchasing one but I do work with wood that has knots at times and would be disappointed if they suffered the same fate.

Also I just purchased the amana rebate head with scoring knives and noticed the scoring knives leave circular ridges on the rebate, no marks with my braised cutters, so do you all experience this issue?

[brent stanley]

I know this thread is 6 years old, however those of you who have the hss profile heads, do you have any trouble with knicks in your knives similar to planer / jointer knife knicks? After reading this thread I am considering purchasing one but I do work with wood that has knots at times and would be disappointed if they suffered the same fate.

Also I just purchased the amana rebate head with scoring knives and noticed the scoring knives leave circular ridges on the rebate, no marks with my braised cutters, so do you all experience this issue?

If you're using quality steel you won't have a problem. I have one chip in one of my HSS knives, and that's in the cheaper, three hole ones and I have done a lot of work in White Oak with knots. HSS is less brittle than carbide, and in some situations is actually more durable though of course not all.

[brad scarbor]

Thanks Brent, by three hole I suppose you mean one of the many knives sold to fit the Amana, CMT, etc.? The Amana head that I'm considering takes a 3 hole hss knife.

[Larry Edgerton]

Also I just purchased the amana rebate head with scoring knives and noticed the scoring knives leave circular ridges on the rebate, no marks with my braised cutters, so do you all experience this issue?

Take your knickers off and clean them, reinstall and torque to spec. Not uncommon, but still better than blowout from a straight cutter.

[brent stanley]

Yup, that's what I mean. You can run those in a standard, 40mm Euroblock too.

[brad scarbor]

Thanks larry and brent, yeah larry this head is brand new, its the amana rebate 125 mm 50mm tall. It leaves the ridges from both ends of the head where the scoring knives cut, so being new and happening from top and bottom, i guess its just the nature of the scoring knives to leave these ridges, unless my head was not machined exact. Think ill swap it for the steel head and see how it does. I make plantation shutters and the half lap shows when they are open so this is unacceptable.

[Jared Sankovich]

Check your straight knife height, there should have been a spacer included with the head for setting the height of the knives.

[brad scarbor]

Huhm Jared, that's very interesting, makes since! So if I set my straight knives down lower, they will perhaps clean up the ridges! That's a grand idea! Thank you sir

[Joe Calhoon]

I’m betting it’s a high knife also. I have seen them move with use but it sounds like this is new. Larry has good advise about the knickers after use. Hard woods will take the knickers down faster than you would think.