Where Does The Money Go ???

[rob durfos]

When I post here and generate traffic, where does the money go ?I asked privately last week and received no response . Are there any safeguards in place here that prevent my investment here being used to generate traffic on other sites ?Thanks, I would sure like to know more on these two subjects.

[curtis rosche]

i beleive it goes to the man who works hard to keep this forum up and running. there was a long thread on this awhile ago

[Phil Thien]

When I post here and generate traffic, where does the money go ?I asked privately last week and received no response . Are there any safeguards in place here that prevent my investment here being used to generate traffic on other sites ?Thanks, I would sure like to know more on these two subjects.

Well, posting doesn't result in any money changing hands (as far as I know). If anything, posting costs Keith (the man behind SMC) just a tiny bit, because he has to pay for his Internet connection, servers, software, professional services, etc.

Now, if you contribute money, that money goes to Keith. He uses it to pay for all those things I mentioned above, and whatever is left over provides some amount of profit (hopefully).

BTW, I thought the subject was funny. It reminds me of a question I've often asked my wife. She doesn't provide nearly as good an answer as I've provided for you above. :)

[Derek Gilmer]

I hope it goes where ever it has been going the last few years that has enabled SMC to become my favorite forum. Any details beyond that I could care less about.

[Glenn Clabo]

SawmillCreek.org is wholly owned and operated by Northwind Associates, Incorporated in the Commonwealth of Virginia.
Keith Outten is the owner of Northwind Associates...and any money (which barely keeps this Forum alive) that is generated is his to utilize in anyway he feels is required to keep it up and running...just like any other buisiness.
Your "investment" in SMC as a "member" is taking the time to provide information for all to use. Contributors who send the suggested $6.00 and advertisers who pay in hopes that members will buy their products help keep it free for you to use.
The reason that you probably didn't get an answer from your PM...Keith is extremely busy with his real job...and frankly I don't think he needs to answer this question. Do you ask every store...online or otherwise...if there are any safeguards in how they spend the money they make from their hard work? I think you would get the same silence.

[rob durfos]

Hi Glenn, How much would it cost to buy back information I have provided ? I am really sorry to have asked these questions, and to have posted on SawmillCreek.org. The contact form person Jackie Outten has given me a choice of no answer or being designated unable to post. I am more than willing to pay to have my posts removed ,this money could then be used in any way Keith Outten feels is required. I realize that it is just business , and I am more than happy to "contribute " to this site .Thanks

[Michael Weber]

:confused:

[Belinda Barfield]

:confused:

+1 :confused:

[David Weaver]

Rob, is english not your first language? I get the sense it isn't, and if it's not, that's OK, but it'll help people understand why the situation doesn't seem to make any sense.

I briefly browsed through your post history, and if anything, it appears you were given the benefit of the doubt having posted your own website without paying anything.

You may want to read the TOS about who owns the information on here once you post - and perhaps you should've when you registered. Unless you have blogs that i'm missing, I can't see anything you posted that you could construe as unduly benefitting the forum.

[Matt Meiser]

Are we on hidden camera?

[Robert McGowen]

I guess you could ask for a refund on the money you paid to be designated as a contributor? Oh wait, I see that you are not designated as a contributor. Never mind.

[Brian Tymchak]

Rob, do you have the impression that you are owed something by posting here? that's not the way it works.. Any posts by anyone contribute to a collective knowledge base that any member can draw upon. Access to that collective knowledge base is the value you get by posting, or even not posting, here. What you contribute (posts) has no direct monetary value to you. However, what you can get from the forum is priceless. The knowledge that others have contributed, and the opportunity to find and ask those who know, how to do and fix things. To show our appreciation to Keith Outten for hosting such a nice well-mannered forum, some of us (Contributors) contribute annually in the hopes that Keith will be able to continue providing the forum.

It would be real nice if more of the Members would become Contributors for just $6 / yr to help Keith out. What a value!! If a dollar amount could be attached to the value I get from the forum each year, I'm sure it would dwarf my annual contribution.

[bob svoboda]

It would be real nice if more of the Members would become Contributors for just $6 / yr to help Keith out. What a value!! If a dollar amount could be attached to the value I get from the forum each year, I'm sure it would dwarf my annual contribution.[/QUOTE]

+1

[Jackie Outten]

Rob,

Let me clarify my response to your message. I told you that I was not able to remove your posts but that I could set your account to guest if you were no longer interested in being a part of the forums. I also told you that you could contact Keith Outten about this if you had questions.

Jackie Outten

[Moses Yoder]

I plan on becoming a contributor in 2012. My understanding of the contribution is it is good for the calendar year. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me this would mean if I contribute $6 in January 2012 my contribution is good until December 31, 2012. If I contribute on December 1, 2012, the contribution is also good until December 31, 2012. Correct me if I'm wrong. If by "good for a calendar year" you really mean good for 365 days, or one year, then the wording is kind of confusing to simpletons like me.

[Belinda Barfield]

I plan on becoming a contributor in 2012. My understanding of the contribution is it is good for the calendar year. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me this would mean if I contribute $6 in January 2012 my contribution is good until December 31, 2012. If I contribute on December 1, 2012, the contribution is also good until December 31, 2012. Correct me if I'm wrong. If by "good for a calendar year" you really mean good for 365 days, or one year, then the wording is kind of confusing to simpletons like me.

You're wrong. I so rarely get to say that unless I'm looking in a mirror. Contribution is good for one full year from date paid.

[Derek Gilmer]

You're wrong. I so rarely get to say that unless I'm looking in a mirror. Contribution is good for one full year from date paid.
Never paid attention to the time span. I just pony up when I get an email saying I"m due... Hopefully that don't read this and start sending it monthly..

[Jeff Monson]

You're wrong. I so rarely get to say that unless I'm looking in a mirror.

Hmmmm......14 years of marriage, I can relate to that one. I was right about a month ago, then I realized my wife was in the other room.

[Jay Jolliffe]

6$ is well worth the information that posts here. You'd spend more that on a mag & wouldn't get 1/10 the info that shows up here. I'm glad to pay the fee :)

[Jeff Monson]

As a side note to the OP of this thread. I've read your posts and they dont make 100% sense to me? For a mere $6 you can become a "contributor". That is less than you pay for the average woodworking magazine. The wealth of knowlege here, plus the ability to "pick the minds" of people with vast experience in the woodworking field. Its a VERY trivial amount when you compare what you get, to what you give.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I plan on becoming a contributor in 2012. My understanding of the contribution is it is good for the calendar year. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me this would mean if I contribute $6 in January 2012 my contribution is good until December 31, 2012. If I contribute on December 1, 2012, the contribution is also good until December 31, 2012. Correct me if I'm wrong. If by "good for a calendar year" you really mean good for 365 days, or one year, then the wording is kind of confusing to simpletons like me.

Belinda's reply to you is correct - it is not based on the 1/1 - 13/31 calendar. It is 365 days from the date you contribute. And - you get a "head's up" before you hit 365 - I don't remember - 4 weeks? 6? 3? It is my only birthday present to myself - I am on a cycle that approximates my birthday. Don't feel sorry for me..."Gee - Highland has Auriou rasps on sale - didn't get a birthday present this year so....wait - nothing the year before,either......."

[Glenn Clabo]

I would like to remind everyone...years ago Keith and his family took on SMC to allow woodworkers a place to hang out after another woodworking forum experiment decided to fold...because it became too hard.
After Keith's internet company had to close it's doors because of a change in the landscape...he tried to keep SMC going...out of pocket...without ads. There came a time when it became too hard...and he actually tried to close the door to his shop...ie...Saw Mill Creek. The collective "we" wouldn't let that happen. He decided...not his wish btw...to let people contribute and to start looking for advertisers. HE...didn't want to do this...but HE...wanted to continue to keep SMC (his shop) open for everyone...including those who didn't have the funds...but wanted to contribute their knowledge.
I believe Keith and his family have never asked for people to contribute money...in fact they find it distasteful. We as unpaid mods have been asked to not allow members to either.
So...if this becomes a fund raising attempt to make people feel bad about not contributing money...the boss....Keith...will ask that we close it.
On a personal note....as a plank owner here at SMC...having been through some very tough times...I have a difficult time time not defending Keith and family...and would like to say I'm sorry if my replies are a little strong.

[Jim Rimmer]

+1 :confused:
+2 :confused:

[Belinda Barfield]

Thanks Glenn, for saying what others of us here cannot. I have the utmost respect for Keith and Jackie, and all the mods. Something I've never said before, there are times when my friends on SMC has truly helped me keep my sanity.

And let's face it, you just can't buy entertainment like you get here. :)

[Phil Thien]

I "get" deciding to leave the SMC community, and wanting everything you have ever posted deleted. I don't think the request is unreasonable in the least.

It just can't work that way.

When it did work that way, threads were quickly turning into Swiss cheese. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there were even some threads where the top post was zapped by the original poster, on his/her way out the door?

So in summary, I don't think there is anything wrong with a poster making such a request. But I don't see anything wrong with SMC declining, either.

[Van Huskey]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there were even some threads where the top post was zapped by the original poster, on his/her way out the door?



Tis the reason we have a 24 hour edit ability now. All the posts were restored since as on most forums they were backed up.

[Paul Cahill]

And let's face it, you just can't buy entertainment like you get here. :)

Not the reason I joined and keep up with the continual flow of great information, but I completely agree with you on that.

Paul

[Dave Anderson NH]

Just as a technical note, nothing on the web is ever truly lost whether it has been deleted or not. What is often refered to as the "wayback machine" is a web archive you can access from any computer connected to the web and find information about websites no longer in existence. There are plenty of ways to find dontent which is not currently available so deletion does not really accomplish anything exceptto make finding the content more problematic.

[Derek Gilmer]

I "get" deciding to leave the SMC community, and wanting everything you have ever posted deleted. I don't think the request is unreasonable in the least.

It just can't work that way.

When it did work that way, threads were quickly turning into Swiss cheese. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there were even some threads where the top post was zapped by the original poster, on his/her way out the door?

So in summary, I don't think there is anything wrong with a poster making such a request. But I don't see anything wrong with SMC declining, either.

I could see this if it was 1990 and the internet and forums were new territory. By now though if you are posting valuable content (either in your opinion or others) in a public forum you can't expect to get it back. Even if SMC didn't keep it the way back time machine, google cache and other web aggregation software is going to keep it around long after you delete a thread.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I could see this if it was 1990 and the internet and forums were new territory. By now though if you are posting valuable content (either in your opinion or others) in a public forum you can't expect to get it back. Even if SMC didn't keep it the way back time machine, google cache and other web aggregation software is going to keep it around long after you delete a thread.

Which is what I tell my teenage niece, of the facebook generation: Never, never, never post anything that you not want to explain to the job interviewer across the desk from you. If you think that they do not use web searches on prospective employees, you are absolutely wrong - and you might not even get to meet that interviewer.

[John Coloccia]

I've just read this whole thread. I understand all of the words, and I think they're all more or less organized into sentences, but I still have absolutely no idea what this thread is about.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I've just read this whole thread. I understand all of the words, and I think they're all more or less organized into sentences, but I still have absolutely no idea what this thread is about.

+1 I think it starts with a basic misunderstanding of web economics, though....

[Phil Thien]

I could see this if it was 1990 and the internet and forums were new territory. By now though if you are posting valuable content (either in your opinion or others) in a public forum you can't expect to get it back. Even if SMC didn't keep it the way back time machine, google cache and other web aggregation software is going to keep it around long after you delete a thread.

I think you're assuming everyone knows and understands the Wayback Machine/Google's caches. I imagine only about 25% of Internet users really understand the concept of perpetual archiving. Heck, I know people in their 60's and 70's that are just now investigating getting their first computer.

Again, I have no problem with someone making the request to have all their posts deleted. Just explain to them: (1) The practical side of why such requests can't be granted (continuity for remaining users) and (2) Why it wouldn't accomplish their goal, anyhow (the caches).

You could make a three paragraph form letter that can be sent to people that make such a request.

If we are tolerant of those that don't understand, we will have a chance to educate them (with minimal effort). And we will all benefit, in the end.

[Moses Yoder]

I've just read this whole thread. I understand all of the words, and I think they're all more or less organized into sentences, but I still have absolutely no idea what this thread is about.

I read part of the thread yesterday, and part today. It's very similar to a Jack London novel. You've got one main hero (the site owner) fighting against all odds to beat the cold weather. He has a number of cronies on his side (moderators) and onlookers (regular posters) and then there's the bad guy trying to shut everything down. Very entertaining.

[Derek Gilmer]

I think you're assuming everyone knows and understands the Wayback Machine/Google's caches. I imagine only about 25% of Internet users really understand the concept of perpetual archiving. Heck, I know people in their 60's and 70's that are just now investigating getting their first computer.

Again, I have no problem with someone making the request to have all their posts deleted. Just explain to them: (1) The practical side of why such requests can't be granted (continuity for remaining users) and (2) Why it wouldn't accomplish their goal, anyhow (the caches).

You could make a three paragraph form letter that can be sent to people that make such a request.

If we are tolerant of those that don't understand, we will have a chance to educate them (with minimal effort). And we will all benefit, in the end.

Maybe I'm to used to fighting for privacy not expecting it. But even outside of a computer world if I write a letter to a newspaper or an article for a news paper I can't expect them to retract my letter or make people forget they read it if I decide a year later I want to make money off the ideas in that letter.

[Keith Outten]

When I post here and generate traffic, where does the money go ?I asked privately last week and received no response . Are there any safeguards in place here that prevent my investment here being used to generate traffic on other sites ?Thanks, I would sure like to know more on these two subjects.

Rob,

SawMill Creek is owned by Northwind Associates Inc which is the sign company that my wife Jackie and I own. The legal risks of running a 24 hour online presence makes it a necessity for us to be a registered corporation to protect our personal assets from a legal challenge should it ever happen.

Members here who have a Contributors title have made a donation to help us pay the bills and keep The Creek online for all to enjoy. It isn't a fee, everyone makes their own decision as to how much they decide to donate. We suggest a 6 dollar donation per year but you can donate just one dollar and receive the same benefits as those who donate 50 dollars. A very small percentage of our registered Members make donations each year so we must market banner advertisements and we use Google Ads to help pay the bills.

We own and operate a private server that hosts SawMill Creek and we do not owe any allegence to any outside organization or company. As our annual budget varies from year to year we keep a small fund set aside to cover any unexpected expenses that might come up such as hardware failure and of course software upgrades. We are a for profit organization, we must at least be able to compensate those who work behind the scenes that are employees of our company, otherwise it would be impossible to continue based on the number of hours per week we are required to work. My private company financials are not a topic that I care to share publicly but I can tell you that all of the donations made here are spent on operational costs that do not include labor. Employe compensation is paid from our advertising budget which is based on our marketing effort not the number of hours we work here.

We have been successful for the last nine years providing free access to every woodworking forum we host. There are only a few forums here that have access that is restricted to Contributors only. We do this to thank those who are able to help us pay the bills and remain online, it isn't a means of keeping anyone from participating.

Our Terms of Service are reasonable and fair to everyone who decides to join our Community. Commitment here runs in both directions, members participate and share their experience and knowledge and we provide a reliable service. Our volunteer Moderators maintain a friendly atmosphere, these are the people who deserve most of the credit for The Creek being a place that everyone can enjoy visiting.

In a nutshell SawMill Creek runs on friendship which is the sole reason we have been so successful. Those who join our Community and participate are rewarded by being part of a very special group of people.
.

[Matt Meiser]

In a nutshell SawMill Creek runs on friendship which is the sole reason we have been so successful.

And here I thought it was the screams of small children (http://disneydvd.disney.go.com/monsters-inc.html)?

I guess your way is better. :D

[Phil Thien]

We suggest a 6 dollar donation per year but you can donate just one dollar and receive the same benefits as those who donate 50 dollars..

I thought $6/year was the minimum.

So all this time I've been feeling like some cheap you-know-what for only sending the minimum.

As it turns out, I'm actually some sort of philanthropist.

I don't suppose my extra $5/year gives me any naming rights?

[Brian Kent]

Sure Phil.

You are named "contributor" :)

Brian

By the way, if we could get paid for our wisdom and entertainment here, I'll bet Belinda's Southern grandparent stories get a lot more than my stupid jokes.

Again, from Brian

[Belinda Barfield]

Sure Phil.

You are named "contributor" :)

Brian

By the way, if we could get paid for our wisdom and entertainment here, I'll bet Belinda's Southern grandparent stories get a lot more than my stupid jokes.

Again, from Brian

Thanks Brian. I definitely should have gotten paid for the daddy and the visit to the cemetery story. :D
(joking!)

[Derek Gilmer]

Thanks Brian. I definitely should have gotten paid for the daddy and the visit to the cemetery story. :D
(joking!)

Start sending your wisdom to Readers Digest. Surely you'll win some of there funny story money.

[Ole Anderson]

Keith, thanks for taking time to reply to this thread. The various responses help explain how a great forum like this is managed, I learned a few things just like I do from most every thread. I suck up a lot of info here and I try to give just a little bit back when I can, that is what most forums are all about.

[Brian Kent]

Thanks Brian. I definitely should have gotten paid for the daddy and the visit to the cemetery story. :D
(joking!)

Searching, searching… still searching… can't find story…

[Belinda Barfield]

Searching, searching… still searching… can't find story…

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?82767-A-Southern-Tale-of-a-Father-s-Love

[Brian Elfert]

I "get" deciding to leave the SMC community, and wanting everything you have ever posted deleted. I don't think the request is unreasonable in the least.

It just can't work that way.

When it did work that way, threads were quickly turning into Swiss cheese. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there were even some threads where the top post was zapped by the original poster, on his/her way out the door?

So in summary, I don't think there is anything wrong with a poster making such a request. But I don't see anything wrong with SMC declining, either.

I belong to other forums too. On one forum a member got upset for some reason and went through and edited EVERY post he had ever made (100s or 1000s) to just say "deleted". He then closed his account. (I have no idea how he had the time to edit that many posts.) After that incident the forum owner limited editing to 24 or 48 hours.

The funny thing is the guy rejoined the forum in less than 6 months.

[Jay Rasmussen]

I think the money goes here:

Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before.

[Brian Kent]

OK Belinda. That is priceless. Because of my profession I am available if you want to start planning your service. I may not be around by then because I'm only living until 84 + bonus years.

Edit: that's 28 years from now plus I'm not sure how to get those bonus years.