Stanley Planes

[Larry D. Wagner]

:) This is the first time I've posted on this segment of SMC. I, not too long ago, came into possesion of a number of discarded older Stanley Planes. There are probably enough planes and parts to make 4 or 5 different sizes. One of the things I see is that the blades have been sharpened at all different angles. For you plane experts, what is the standard angle used to sharpen most plane blades/knives. I thought I had that info somewhere, but cannot seem to locate it. I plan to recondition them as best I can and make them as good as possible. They probably won't be top notch, but I should be able to get by when I need a hand plane.

Thanks for any and all info.

Larry:) :) :)

[Roy Wall]

Larry,

The LN folks believe in a 30 deg bevel, with a little 2 deg micro bevel for most woodworking. It could be 5 deg less if your working with softwoods.....

THE standard "factory grind" is 25 degrees........

[Marc Hills]

Hi Larry:

What makes this question interesting (at least for those of us who ruminate about this sort of minutiae) is that on traditional bench planes, the effective cutting angle is always the same: 45 degrees, regardless of bevel angle. With a bevel down blade, the cutting angle is determined by the bed angle of the frog (that slanted surface that the blade/chip breaker assembly rests upon); regardless of what angle the bevel is ground.

So the choice boils down to that imprecise compromise between sharpness and edge retention. A more obtuse bevel angle (say LN's favored 30 deg) produces a stronger edge, at the expense of some theoretical limits of absolute sharpness. A sharper angle (say 20 deg) will supposedly yield a sharper edge, but one more susceptible to minute chipping after use.

Secondary bevels don't change the basic equation, they just complicates things a bit more. A blade beveled to 25 deg with a slight micro bevel might have an effective bevel of 28 deg.

Then one might have to layer upon this calculus the metallurgical properties of the blade itself. One made of a steel that is more brittle, yet can take a very keep edge would I suppose be better suited to a slightly steeper bevel angle, whereas one that is a bit more resilient, but harder to sharpen to a fine point, could probably benefit from a shallower bevel.

Is all this clear as mud? Because once you grasp these concepts, they all go out the window if you are talking about a block plane or say, a Stanley 62, which are bevel up planes. The geometry of those tools is such that the effective cutting angle does vary with the bevel angle (it's the sum of the bed and bevel angles).

The upshot of all of this Larry, is either you must surrender your sanity or your planes to Neanderthal gods. Either you embrace this arcane lore or package up your planes and send them off to me. Or, I suppose you could opt for choice C), which is to just sharpen the damn blades to somewheres around 25 to 30 deg and call it a day. :)

[Jerry Palmer]

Guess if it is worth saying, it's worth saying twice. I hate it when this happens, so you can go re-read the previous post, or read the same stuff with different words in mine.



If these are all bench type planes, then a bevel angle of 25 - 35 degrees is the norm. As bench planes are "bevel down" planes, that angle has little effect on their ability to cut as the cutting angle is determined by the bed angle of the plane, with Stanleys a compromise angle of 45 degrees. There is some valid argument that the "sharpness" of the iron is somewhat affected by the bevel and a smaller angle bevel can be made sharper than a wider one. Of course the flip side to that is that a wider bevel angle is stronger than a narrower one, resulting in greater longevity of the edge with a higher angle.:rolleyes:

On the other hand, if they, or some of them, are block or specialty planes, then . . . Some will be bevel up and the sharpening angle does affect the final cutting angle so . . .

[Derek Cohen]

OK guys, you are getting too technical for a neophite blade sharpener.

Larry, sharpen all your blades to 25 degrees. Use them this way for a few months. Then you will be able to evaluate just which blades are able to hold their sharpness longer than others. The poorer ones should then be resharpened at 30 degrees, and again used this way for a few months. By the time you have used the planes for several months, you will know what is what.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Larry D. Wagner]

WOW! So much information from what I thought was a very simple question. You gave me enough info to think about for the next to 2-3 years.(I'm a slow thinker, you know:D) In the meantime I"ll start by sharpening them in the 25 - 35 degree range and see how that works. I hope to be able to make some of the planes look like new.

THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO!

Larry:) :) :)

[Roy Wall]

OK guys, you are getting too technical for a neophite blade sharpener.

Larry, sharpen all your blades to 25 degrees. Use them this way for a few months. Then you will be able to evaluate just which blades are able to hold their sharpness longer than others. The poorer ones should then be resharpened at 30 degrees, and again used this way for a few months. By the time you have used the planes for several months, you will know what is what.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Larry,

Uh....yeah.......what Derek says......


I can get pretty deep:cool: Enjoy your planes!!!!

[Jerry Palmer]

Heck, I was trying to break him in easy. Yeah, sharpen them 25 to 30 degrees, and then play around withit from there. Sometimes I think we all make way to much outa this stuff, but what the heck, if ya can't beat a dead horse, what can you beat?:D


Least I didn't try to con him outa his planes.

[Marc Hills]

Least I didn't try to con him outa his planes.

Hey! I resemble that remark! I'll have you know that only 33.3% of my suggestions involved Larry giving his planes to me. Honestly, it's not like I asked him to pay for shipping or anything......

Also, and more seriously: to all folks reading this thread, mea culpa. I note Ken Salisbury's reminder over at the General Woodworking forum that profanity is strictly verboten at SMC, a wise and valuable rule.

I apologize for my use of a certain four letter word in my first post to this discussion. If I offended anyone, please accept my sincerest regrets.

[Larry D. Wagner]

Roy, Marc,Derek & Jerry,

When I get these things done I'll try to post a picture or two. Mind you now, it is going to take a few weeks/months to complete this project as I try to fit it into my WW schedule as dictated by my family.(Dad, can you make this or honey is it possible to make this:D )

I really enjoyed and appreciated all the comments and look forward to conversing more on the Creek.

Larry:) :) :)