PDA

View Full Version : Could you survive?



Belinda Williamson
12-18-2011, 11:33 AM
No, I'm not here to sell you freeze dried food, tarps, and duct tape. Just reading through threads in the past couple of days and wondering how many here believe they could survive is something catastrophic happened - zombie apocalypse excluded. As most here are the DIY type, I'm guessing quite a few could and would survive. How prepared are you, and what steps toward preparedness would you recommend? Let's say, for example, we lost the entire US power grid for a month or so, how bad do you think things would get?

Larry Edgerton
12-18-2011, 12:12 PM
I think before one could answer that question they would have to take into consideration what other people would do in that situation.

Most Americans are comfortably living with the illusion that we are a civilized people. Maybe because we have not had any real hardships for so long we forget, but the animal within is still there. We look at atrocities as if those people are not like us, but have we forgotten the native Americans?

We have built up an entitlement society that many members are used to having things handed to them. What are they going to do if the handouts stop? Do you think they will pick up a hoe and start a garden?

Are you prepared to protect the preperations that you have made?

Very big question, with no simple answer.....

Larry

John Lohmann
12-18-2011, 12:30 PM
Got lotsa canned food, candles, batteries, need more water & toilet paper. How do I watch TV in High Definition? I'll miss the Walking Dead?

Ryan Mooney
12-18-2011, 2:03 PM
Me, alone against the wilderness pretty good odds - maybe up to 50% (largely depending on luck and time of year). Once you factor in other people it drops a lot down to something under 5%. A good chunk of "surviving" is mental, if you can make yourself getup and go every day you're a big leg up and none of that survivor guilt.

I think "what you have" in that sort of situation may or may not matter depending on where you are (I lean towards not mattering much after the first ~week in most situations). If you're in a heavily populated area belonging won't likely matter to much unless you also have a really really good fireproof place to hide that no one knows about. If you're in a remote area it depends on how much the crowds will head that way or not (if you're lucky there's a mountain range in the middle with a pass you can blow).

I actually get a bit of a chuckle out of a lot of the "prepared" folks. I knew one guy who had a "years worth of food" stored, mostly dry goods and whole kernel grains (primarily wheat, which is a pretty complete food with a few beans added). I asked:

how will you cook those grains? "on the stove" (electric)
how will you grind those grains? "with this hand mill" (one of the "hour of work for a cup of flour" hand mills - he hadn't considered just cracking it for mush because "his kids didn't like that")
where will you get water? "from the pipes, the water will still work" (lived on top of a ~500"+hill so water was pumped there)

So basically he was counting on civilization to collapse, but all the amenities to still work. I was confused and amused.

I know some other folks who've stocked up on lead, but you can't shoot all ways at once. Gold you can't eat. And so on.

Imho your best bet is to stay out of the way until the hordes have thinned themselves and then find a group of like minded folks and make yourself useful (need a blacksmith, yep I can fake that. Brewer/Distiller, sure can do. Rough carpenter? Yep. Cheesemaker? sure. Cook? Absolutely. Drive a team of horses? yes! Gardener? know a little about that. Primitive weapons expert? not really, but I'll play one if you want :D). On the up side knowing how to do stuff makes you more useful to yourself in real life as well (note: I'm certainly NOT under any stretch claiming to be an expert or even really adequate at most of the above, but.. knowing a little goes a lot further than knowing nothing).

A fun series for folks into this sort of thing is "Dies the Fire" by SM Sterling. The premise is that most modern technology ceases to work because "fast/large" chemical and electrical reactions cease to work for some reason (i.e. no gunpowder, no electric motors, steam engines work) dropping back to about a 16-1700's level of tech capability.

Harry Hagan
12-18-2011, 3:56 PM
If you want a good assessment of what it would be like, Id highly recommend the novel; One Second After by William R. Forstchen. :(

http://www.amazon.com/One-Second-After-William-Forstchen/dp/0765327252/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324241333&sr=1-1

Jim Koepke
12-18-2011, 4:07 PM
Some would survive, many would perish.

One of my pet mind exercises is to think about living a century or more ago. Some of us might be able to fit in, but most people would likely find it beyond their ability to live without what we take for granted today.

If the national power grid collapsed, it wouldn't be the lack of entitlements making my well not work. It would be that most people wouldn't know what to do with a chicken to make dinner even if there was a live chicken walking through their yard.

If one draws that kind of statement too its conclusion, those living the life of entitlement might do better than many others. After all, some feel entitlements are nothing more than a way to steel from others. Thieves have always found ways to survive in and out of society.

Maybe the people who would have the most difficult time are those who have always been able to pay others to do the hard work for them. Would they know how to start a fire to boil water?

jtk

Belinda Williamson
12-18-2011, 4:45 PM
Since I live in a city, which I know would go to heck in a handbasket within the first week (or less), step one is to get out of dodge - and early. I would most likely head for the swamp as it is probably the safest place around. I truly believe if one doesn't have a kill or be killed mentality one isn't like to survive. Where I live having a basement full or root vegetables and several 5 gallon buckets of beans and rice won't mean squat. I agree that if I make it I will need to find my tribe and survive as a group. Several of them live on the fringes of the swamp. I, too, find it amusing that so many people believe in the best in others and that if they just stock up on things everything will be okay. Having said all that - what do I know?

ray hampton
12-18-2011, 5:35 PM
Since I live in a city, which I know would go to heck in a handbasket within the first week (or less), step one is to get out of dodge - and early. I would most likely head for the swamp as it is probably the safest place around. I truly believe if one don't have a kill or be killed mentality one isn't like to survive. Where I live having a basement full or root vegetables and several 5 gallon buckets of beans and rice won't mean squat. I agree that if I make it I will need to find my tribe and survive as a group. Several of them live on the fringes of the swamp. I, too, find it amusing that so many people believe in the best in others and that if they just stock up on things everything will be okay. Having said all that - what do I know?


excuse my spelling, but are the swamp that you mentioned Swamp O my gosh, how many miles could you travel by using the swamps canals from one swamp to another swamp

ray hampton
12-18-2011, 5:40 PM
Since I live in a city, which I know would go to heck in a handbasket within the first week (or less), step one is to get out of dodge - and early. I would most likely head for the swamp as it is probably the safest place around. I truly believe if one don't have a kill or be killed mentality one isn't like to survive. Where I live having a basement full or root vegetables and several 5 gallon buckets of beans and rice won't mean squat. I agree that if I make it I will need to find my tribe and survive as a group. Several of them live on the fringes of the swamp. I, too, find it amusing that so many people believe in the best in others and that if they just stock up on things everything will be okay. Having said all that - what do I know?

one reason that nation war against nation is because they will not show their best side

Belinda Williamson
12-18-2011, 7:27 PM
excuse my spelling, but are the swamp that you mentioned Swamp O my gosh, how many miles could you travel by using the swamps canals from one swamp to another swamp

The big O swamp, or the river wetlands near my home town.

ray hampton
12-18-2011, 7:50 PM
W got one more year and couple extra days before the December 21 , 2012 date, this year will pass very quick, I hope that everybody are ready

ray hampton
12-18-2011, 7:54 PM
The big O swamp, or the river wetlands near my home town.
if you take a boat or canoe to the Dismal swamp, could you travel to the Everglades without getting out of the water ?

Chris Kennedy
12-18-2011, 8:37 PM
Should we have a complete collapse of societies and morals, I am what is known in Darwinian terms as "food."

I will be the first to admit that I would be completely lost. For the most part this is because I strive to add to the human knowledge, not worry about the collapse of society.

Cheers,

Chris

ray hampton
12-18-2011, 8:54 PM
Should we have a complete collapse of societies and morals, I am what is known in Darwinian terms as "food."

I will be the first to admit that I would be completely lost. For the most part this is because I strive to add to the human knowledge, not worry about the collapse of society.

Cheers,

Chris
the fowls of the air and the beasts of the field will have a feast because of the dead

Shawn Pixley
12-18-2011, 8:58 PM
I think so. I taught wilderness survival when I was younger. I think that Brenda had it right, get out of the urban centers.

Mike Cruz
12-18-2011, 10:22 PM
I've got enough fire wood to heat my house. I've got enough ammunition to "get some food". I'm on well water. As long as I have all my gas cans full, I could run my generator in intervals to keep the pump going when needed. Not really stocked up on the veggies enough though...

Peter Pedisich
12-18-2011, 11:12 PM
In an extended period without power due to a natural or man-made disaster, for most americans living in urban or suburban areas, having a pre-established network of like-minded friends and family would go a long way towards protecting your stores and selves.

In an area like where I live, an island roughly 15 miles wide x 120 miles long with a population of 7.5 million (yes, thats 5,402 inhabitants per square mile) connected to the mainland of the US east coast by about half-dozen bridges and tunnels, it would be difficult at best.

The best place would be in the remote higher elevations of a temperate region, with a years worth of Tastykake Butterscotch Krimpets and Jack Daniels!

"The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come. When in a state of security he does not forget the possibility of ruin. When all is orderly, he does not forget that disorder may come. Thus his person is not endangered, and his States and all their clans are preserved."
-Confucious

John T Barker
12-19-2011, 12:55 AM
Such a happy thought. Interesting responses. It made me think of the one time in my life I went hungry for an extended period of time. Not very long but I was traveling for the better part of the day and landed at an airport after EVERYTHING was closed and had to wait to eat until the next morning when I returned to the airport to catch my next flight. Not even a full day and I bought what I could with the few dollars I had, stole some more and ate food left behind in the airport cafe. People that expect food, water, heat, air conditioning, communication and security from those that might harm them. What happened in New Orleans in one day? One month off the power grid for the whole country would be complete and utter chaos the likes of which we can hardly imagine. Survival skills as far as food gthering, shelter building, etc., are second to protecting yourself from those around you.

Personally I like to believe I could build some rudimentary shelter in many situations; tool skills I have. Food gathering? Hmm, I can shoot it if I see it, fish for it if it is there but beyond that I am lost. If I can take books and games with me I am entertained (boardgames.)

I truly wonder who would be considered the valuable people in a situation like this. Is it those that build and work or those that organize?

Bryan Morgan
12-19-2011, 2:24 AM
No, I'm not here to sell you freeze dried food, tarps, and duct tape. Just reading through threads in the past couple of days and wondering how many here believe they could survive is something catastrophic happened - zombie apocalypse excluded. As most here are the DIY type, I'm guessing quite a few could and would survive. How prepared are you, and what steps toward preparedness would you recommend? Let's say, for example, we lost the entire US power grid for a month or so, how bad do you think things would get?

I'd like to say yes but Rand Paul was saying I'd be labeled a terrorist if I had too much "survival" stuff... so, uh, no, not me. Probably just keel over dead.

Myk Rian
12-19-2011, 6:58 AM
If a catastrophe happened, you had better have weapons to strap on. You're going to need them.

David Keller NC
12-19-2011, 7:42 AM
Belinda - Interesting conjecture. But, I would argue that someone's survival skills wouldn't factor into their odds of survival of a civilization-collapsing catastrophe as much as one might think. I say this as someone that is probably much better prepared to deal with where to get (and how to treat) water, make and keep fire, hunt, fish, construct shelters, etc... than most average Joes (or Janes). I've done an awful lot of the "live out of doors for a few weeks" sort of thing as a consequence of a passion for seeing the National Parks and other wilderness areas, with a lot of it down your way.

The simple reason I say this has to do with the number of people in the country, and the number of people that the land could support if technology and basic services had failed. Presuming the catastrophe didn't kill roughly 9 out of 10 people and ruin the environment (like an asteroid strike, a nuclear war, etc...), there is no possibility of supporting 300 million folks with what amounts to 19th century technology, even for a few months.

Take just two examples - hunting for food and keeping warm from burning firewood. Many of the game animals in this country nearly went extinct in the late 19th century and early 20th century. And that was when we had roughly 50 million citizens. While there's zero doubt that we have way too many deer in many parts of the country, the entire population would be essentially wiped out within a few weeks just to barely feed 300 million. The existing cattle, goats, sheep, pigs and domesticated birds might last perhaps 2 months longer.

In the firewood arena, cities in the Northeast US shortly after the revolutionary war were running low on available trees to cut into firewood. And that was the 18th century.

Really hard to say for sure, given that gasoline powered tree munchers might not be available (it takes a long time to cut firewood by hand - DAMHIKKT), but my guess is that we'd clear-cut absolutely everything within 2 winter seasons.

Bottom line, there are far too many people in the world for a high fraction of them to survive a civilization-ending catastrophe.

Bill ThompsonNM
12-19-2011, 8:35 AM
Of course Belinda, if you're expecting such a catastrophe...maybe you should be spending more time in the Neander forum :D And while we're considering that direction as we all become a bunch of nomadic woodworkers, I guess its time for us to decide on the secret handshake for the sign of the Sawmill Creek....

Belinda Williamson
12-19-2011, 8:50 AM
The best place would be in the remote higher elevations of a temperate region, with a years worth of Tastykake Butterscotch Krimpets and Jack Daniels!


You can join my tribe because you understand that Jack Daniels is a necessity!:D Actually alcohol in some form, preferably grain alcohol, is a necessity. If you have a knowledge of medicinal plants you need the alcohol for tinctures, etc., and it can be used as an antiseptic for wounds.


I truly wonder who would be considered the valuable people in a situation like this. Is it those that build and work or those that organize?

You have to have both. Actually I think those with organizational skills are more valuable, but you have to have worker bees also.


If a catastrophe happened, you had better have weapons to strap on. You're going to need them.

Got firepower, but not nearly enough.


Belinda - Interesting conjecture. But, I would argue that someone's survival skills wouldn't factor into their odds of survival of a civilization-collapsing catastrophe as much as one might think. I say this as someone that is probably much better prepared to deal with where to get (and how to treat) water, make and keep fire, hunt, fish, construct shelters, etc... than most average Joes (or Janes). I've done an awful lot of the "live out of doors for a few weeks" sort of thing as a consequence of a passion for seeing the National Parks and other wilderness areas, with a lot of it down your way.

The simple reason I say this has to do with the number of people in the country, and the number of people that the land could support if technology and basic services had failed. Presuming the catastrophe didn't kill roughly 9 out of 10 people and ruin the environment (like an asteroid strike, a nuclear war, etc...), there is no possibility of supporting 300 million folks with what amounts to 19th century technology, even for a few months.

Take just two examples - hunting for food and keeping warm from burning firewood. Many of the game animals in this country nearly went extinct in the late 19th century and early 20th century. And that was when we had roughly 50 million citizens. While there's zero doubt that we have way too many deer in many parts of the country, the entire population would be essentially wiped out within a few weeks just to barely feed 300 million. The existing cattle, goats, sheep, pigs and domesticated birds might last perhaps 2 months longer.

In the firewood arena, cities in the Northeast US shortly after the revolutionary war were running low on available trees to cut into firewood. And that was the 18th century.

Really hard to say for sure, given that gasoline powered tree munchers might not be available (it takes a long time to cut firewood by hand - DAMHIKKT), but my guess is that we'd clear-cut absolutely everything within 2 winter seasons.

Bottom line, there are far too many people in the world for a high fraction of them to survive a civilization-ending catastrophe.

The herds will thin pretty quickly, IMHO, so I don't think we will have to support that many. I may not be a survivor, but if I do make it to the swamp at least I have a chance. The weather here rarely gets cold enough that you can't stay warm with multiple layers of clothing. Never ice or snow. I think if you make it through the first couple of months, and you still have ammo, you stand a pretty good chance. You definitely can't go it alone though unless you are in an extremely remote and difficult to reach area.

As for contributing to society's knowledge base as opposed to worrying about the end of civilization, what can I say? I like to plan ahead.

Brian Elfert
12-19-2011, 12:48 PM
I am far from prepared food wise for a disaster. I have enough to last through a couple day winter blizzard, but that is about it. If one does have food stocked up you better have firearms to protect your food stash. No lock short of a bank vault is going to keep hungry masses out. I can imagine that every store that sell any kind of food will be cleaned out by looters within days.

A huge issue would be fuel. Many gas stations wouldn't be able to pump. If they could pump they would be out of fuel in no time. People with pumps would steal the gas from unattended stations. I remember either after 9/11 or hurricane Katrina I desperately needed fuel for my car. There was a line of cars out into the street. My car used diesel and people were blocking the diesel pump. Nobody was going to move as they all thought I was to trying to steal a spot at a gasoline pump.

I have a motorhome with enough fuel to go 900 to 1000 miles. I might go hide in the woods somewhere, but on the other hand I might need to stay and defend my home. I can assume that pretty much any building anywhere will be looted of all food and water.

Law enforcement won't be effective, especially if they don't extra fuel for their vehicles and extra ammo for their weapons stashed away.

ray hampton
12-19-2011, 3:12 PM
food and fuel will be in short supply unless you got the money to buy ahead of the time and stock up

David Weaver
12-19-2011, 3:20 PM
I could tolerate a month off the grid, but I would need to have another source for food, I wouldn't have the food to make it for a month, probably.

We've got a good clean cold water creek that runs all year less than half mile away.

We've gone close to 10 days off grid (electrical around here can be bad - and an ohio valley storm can take out several million people at once, so it doesn't come back on quickly if you're last in line), obviously didn't drink the creek water, and it wasn't cold out. But we sure went to bed earlier and while I was bored to near tears sometimes, it was nice to get all of the sleep and think clearly.

Van Huskey
12-19-2011, 3:36 PM
Alone in the wilderness I would feel pretty confident, I have trekked in some of the most inhospitable areas on the planet for extended periods and did what I termed survival treks during my 20s and 30s where I went into wilderness areas of national parks for 10-14 days where other than the clothes on my back I limited myself to 1 pound of gear, none of which could be food. Living in populas areas in survival conditions comes down more to luck than anything else. Even having spent time as a grunt, having good hunting skills and spending much of my life as a competative shooter still only affords me a slight edge, one moment of inattention... The desire to keep all ones love ones safe despite their lack of survival skills would lead many to their death. I think the key would be social, how quickly could one develop a network of like minded individuals who had a vast array of useful skills and an area to live that was easily defendable with access to good water and food.

Mike Kelsey
12-19-2011, 5:58 PM
I think this website community, which I've gained a lot from, symbolizes what "survival" should be about and that is helping each other. What was continually central to what my grandmother said about going through the Great Depression was the giving more than the getting, even though they were in need themselves.

Larry Edgerton
12-19-2011, 6:54 PM
Belinda

If this huge blackout you are planning is caused by a large geomagnetic storm, or heaven forbid a good sized atomic incident, you had better figure out how you are going to get to the swamp. The electronics in your new car will be wiped out, and it just won't do a thing.

I on the other hand am sporting a 1947 Dodge pickup, complete with a hand crank so I am all set. No electronics, and even if the battery fails it will still run as it has a generator instead of an alternator.

Not that I was actually planning on going anywhere...... See David Kellers response above.

No, I think I will make a peach pie and love to my wife and hopefully it is in the summer so I can set on the porch for a spell.

Larry

Belinda Williamson
12-20-2011, 7:01 AM
Belinda

If this huge blackout you are planning is caused by a large geomagnetic storm, or heaven forbid a good sized atomic incident, you had better figure out how you are going to get to the swamp. The electronics in your new car will be wiped out, and it just won't do a thing.

I on the other hand am sporting a 1947 Dodge pickup, complete with a hand crank so I am all set. No electronics, and even if the battery fails it will still run as it has a generator instead of an alternator.

Not that I was actually planning on going anywhere...... See David Kellers response above.

No, I think I will make a peach pie and love to my wife and hopefully it is in the summer so I can set on the porch for a spell.

Larry

I gave this some serious thought last night, Larry, and came to the conclusion that I won't survive. I would probably die trying to get to my parents. I could ride my bike to swamp but that wouldn't be too safe. I could stick to the woods and walk but it would take a bit. Better chance making it to one of the small off shore islands in a kayak, but then food would be an issue. Guess I'll just stock up on Jack Daniels and chocolate and hope for the best. We have, what now, less than a year until the end of the world? :rolleyes:

Rich Engelhardt
12-20-2011, 11:06 AM
I think the key would be social,
Sheesh....I'm toast...

Van Huskey
12-20-2011, 12:01 PM
BTW has anyone watched the series "The Colony", there have been two seasons.

Belinda Williamson
12-20-2011, 12:15 PM
I haven't Van, never even heard of it, but I'll probably try to catch up on it over the holidays. I checked it out online and noted that the season two group seems pretty well rounded as far as skills go. I agree with one person who commented that they would like to see the next season group include a drug addict, a homeless person, and a politician. :D

Derek Gilmer
12-20-2011, 12:20 PM
I'd like to say yes but Rand Paul was saying I'd be labeled a terrorist if I had too much "survival" stuff... so, uh, no, not me. Probably just keel over dead.

I don't think Rand Paul was supporting that choice. The last defense funding bill enabled someone with more than 7 days of food to be labeled a terrorist and deprived of their 4th amendment rights.

And yep, I'm pretty comfortable in surviving alright.

Derek Gilmer
12-20-2011, 12:23 PM
BTW has anyone watched the series "The Colony", there have been two seasons.
The survivors from the BBC was interesting to. I kept telling my wife they are stupid for not having some guns. Then I remembered it was in England where private ownership of firearms is much less common then here in the US.

I went and hugged my gun safe and made this face: :D

Van Huskey
12-20-2011, 12:41 PM
I haven't Van, never even heard of it, but I'll probably try to catch up on it over the holidays. I checked it out online and noted that the season two group seems pretty well rounded as far as skills go. I agree with one person who commented that they would like to see the next season group include a drug addict, a homeless person, and a politician. :D


It is interesting to watch, not GREAT TV but makes you think. It was obvious that a lot of the stuff is staged, ie they had exactly what they needed to build certain things but interesting none the less.

Belinda Williamson
12-20-2011, 12:43 PM
I went and hugged my gun safe and made this face: :D

LOL, that right there is funny! I actually asked Santa for a new pistol for Christmas, but I'm not sure if he's allowed to fly with firearms any more. I want something really small that will fit in an evening bag. Hmmm . . . I wonder if gal packing a pistol goes on the Naughty or the Nice list, I never thought to ask.

Belinda Williamson
12-20-2011, 12:50 PM
Next curiosity question: Who has a preparedness kit? Something you can just grab and go. I was thinking last night about my grandmother. She always kept a train case (you know, one of those small square suitcases that I don't think they even make anymore) packed and ready to go in case someone needed her. She could literally be dressed and on the road in less than 15 minutes. She's the one everyone called when they ended up in jail and didn't want to call their mama. Of course, grandma wasn't prepared for a catastrophe, just a few nights away from home. Because I live on the coast I have a preparedness kit but I only keep it handy during hurricane season.

Jay Maiers
12-20-2011, 12:51 PM
I think I'd rather deal with the zombies ;)

A month long loss of power would mean the end for a lot of people. Plenty of folks have the supplies and know-how to survive it, but there are many more that would do anything to take those supplies. Without having the full package (supplies, know-how, and the people / security necessary to defend it), chances are slim. Those stuck in a city without a bunker would probably be toast. Those in the suburbs surrounding the city would fall prey to the unprepared masses streaming out of the city. Folks in the rural areas could be fine IF they get together with their neighbors and friends to form communities for security, division of labor, etc.


With all due respect to the OP, the original question is a good mental exercise, but not it's not high up on the (my) list of real possibilities. IMO, serious economic depression or collapse is a more realistic scenario. Several years ago, I read some articles by a blogger named Ferfal. He relates his experience in Argentina, both during and after their economic collapse. Scary business. If you have some time, check it out, and then consider your own situation.

Derek Gilmer
12-20-2011, 12:53 PM
LOL, that right there is funny! I actually asked Santa for a new pistol for Christmas, but I'm not sure if he's allowed to fly with firearms any more. I want something really small that will fit in an evening bag. Hmmm . . . I wonder if gal packing a pistol goes on the Naughty or the Nice list, I never thought to ask.
S&W 39spl snub nose airweight with a crimson trace laser grip.

Belinda Williamson
12-20-2011, 12:55 PM
S&W 39spl snub nose airweight with a crimson trace laser grip.

Thanks Derek! I'll check it out.

Belinda Williamson
12-20-2011, 12:59 PM
With all due respect to the OP, the original question is a good mental exercise, but not it's not high up on the (my) list of real possibilities. IMO, serious economic depression or collapse is a more realistic scenario. Several years ago, I read some articles by a blogger named Ferfal. He relates his experience in Argentina, both during and after their economic collapse. Scary business. If you have some time, check it out, and then consider your own situation.

I totally agree that the scenario isn't high up there on the list of possibilities, unless we have soom huge solar flare, etc. I also agree that global economic collapse is much more likely to happen, but I'm pretty certain that scenario can't be discussed without going political. :)

Mike Cruz
12-20-2011, 1:02 PM
Belinda, I can grab a cold six pack, a large bottle of rum, my 357 mag...all in under a minute. What else would I need? ;)

Jay Maiers
12-20-2011, 1:04 PM
Next curiosity question: Who has a preparedness kit?

My wife and I both keep small backpacks in the car. We've both used them a few times in the last couple of years. Not for real "survival" situations, just to make ourselves more comfortable under some less-than-ideal circumstances.

We also have a couple of small "go bags" in the house in case we have to walk out with no time to prepare. If given the time to pack a couple of things into the car, we have a few old kitty litter pails packed with supplies for our pets, plus another couple of rubbermaid tubs with additional items for ourselves.

Larry Browning
12-20-2011, 1:08 PM
W got one more year and couple extra days before the December 21 , 2012 date, this year will pass very quick, I hope that everybody are ready
Tell me, how exactly does one prepare for the end of the world? We are all going to die, right? One minute we are going about our business and the next we are all dead. What kind of preparation is needed, except to make sure you are right with your maker? That's about it. Not sure I need any survival skills when I'm dead.
I don't worry about such things.

Belinda Williamson
12-20-2011, 1:51 PM
Tell me, how exactly does one prepare for the end of the world?

See my post in another thread . . . by eating all of the chocolate dipped bacon I can hold.

Van Huskey
12-20-2011, 2:04 PM
See my post in another thread . . . by eating all of the chocolate dipped bacon I can hold.

I was ask that question my freshman year in college and my response was basically get a chaise lounge and a few gallons of Jack and watch. Strangely enough after 26 years the only difference in my answer is getting two chaises (one for my wife) and instead of Jack a dozen cases of Trappist beer.

Ryan Mooney
12-20-2011, 2:19 PM
I was ask that question my freshman year in college and my response was basically get a chaise lounge and a few gallons of Jack and watch. Strangely enough after 26 years the only difference in my answer is getting two chaises (one for my wife) and instead of Jack a dozen cases of Trappist beer.

Heh, personally I might go for something stronger than Trappist for the end of the world (not saying that its not a great choice!), although the St Bernardus Tripel we had yesterday would perhaps be a good choice (wow that beer had malt until tomorrow!). Definitely something better than Jack though (I mean its the end of the world after all), maybe some 4 Roses :D

Belinda Williamson
12-20-2011, 2:27 PM
Nope, couple of bottles of Talisker Scotch for me. I'm also going to spend all my money on scratch off lottery tickets because I'm sure that seconds before the world implodes I'll hit the jackpot . . .

Rich Engelhardt
12-20-2011, 2:36 PM
I wonder if gal packing a pistol goes on the Naughty or the Nice list, I never thought to ask.
Nice - I have a round old fat man with a big bushy beard's word on it!
:D

ray hampton
12-20-2011, 3:00 PM
Belinda, today is the 12/20/2011, the 12 months count-down starts tonight until the next December 12/21/2012, the 21 is the first day of winter

Mike Cruz
12-20-2011, 3:04 PM
Oh, if we're talking End of the World... A good cigar, a shot of Cognac (to dip the cigar), a bottle of Scotch, my 357 (so no one takes my cigar, cognac, or Scotch), and a good seat wherever people watching would be good. There is no better entertainment than people out of their minds...

Mark Patoka
12-20-2011, 3:11 PM
I remember about a week or so after Hurricane Katrina they interviewed residents that had fully prepared to be self-sufficient for such events: generators, fuel, ammo, food. Because they were the only house on their block or neighborhood that could self-subsist, they were an instant target and had to limit running their generators, not have lights on at night, etc and had to arm themselves for protection. It made me wonder if it was really worth it. We all saw how a large group of people reacted after being "stranded" at the SuperDome for only two days in a small geographic area. A nationwide event would bring out the absolute worst in most people in a very short period of time.

If I had my choice, I'd want to be in a sparsely populated area but long-term, people would have to organize into the tribe-type organizations to survive. We have a garden and my wife and I joke that if something bad did happen, our food would be taken/stolen/gone overnight.

And like Belinda, a handgun is on my Christmas list as well. Not sure if Santa will actually deliver though....

Moses Yoder
12-20-2011, 3:28 PM
I'm Amish, have a 900 pound beef in the propane freezer and plenty of ingredients to live well for a while without power. We cook with a wood stove. The only thing I would have to do is make sure I get enough white gas for the lanterns and a full tank of propane. Plus, I survived a week on Isle Royal in grand style so I know I can go without showers and personal hygiene if I need to, in order to fit in with the rest of society.

ray hampton
12-20-2011, 3:32 PM
the best change to survive [ apart from GOD help and guidance] might be in the city because the majority of the people will be heading for the boondocks

Belinda Williamson
12-20-2011, 3:39 PM
the best change to survive [ apart from GOD help and guidance] might be in the city because the majority of the people will be heading for the boondocks

I think I have to disagree with you on this one Ray. If you could find a bunker somewhere in the city maybe, but the cities will be pretty much destroyed early on. Then the looters and pickers will start foraging outward. Just my guess.

Derek Gilmer
12-20-2011, 3:48 PM
I think I have to disagree with you on this one Ray. If you could find a bunker somewhere in the city maybe, but the cities will be pretty much destroyed early on. Then the looters and pickers will start foraging outward. Just my guess.
Plus the mass of dead bodies (human and other) will quickly turn cities into disease factories. And there will be little clean water or area to grow crops available.

ray hampton
12-20-2011, 3:59 PM
Plus the mass of dead bodies (human and other) will quickly turn cities into disease factories. And there will be little clean water or area to grow crops available.

any water will need to be boil to be safe, people will keep moving so planting crops will be harvest by someone else, how many cities got underground subways ?

Derek Gilmer
12-20-2011, 4:20 PM
any water will need to be boil to be safe, people will keep moving so planting crops will be harvest by someone else, how many cities got underground subways ?
Well/spring water is good to go as is. And no long term survival plan of mine is going to include turning into a nomad. I'll hunker down at my happy spot. Drink spring water, harvest my crops and wild critters to eat and try to keep to myself.

Mike Cruz
12-20-2011, 5:27 PM
Not outta MY well, Ray. :D

Mike Cruz
12-20-2011, 5:29 PM
Belinda, I've gotta give a real "Thanks a whole heck of a lot" for starting this thread... It's all I can think about. Now I think it's really going to happen. You have me all worried. Think I'll go sip on a chilly one and ponder...

Van Huskey
12-20-2011, 5:38 PM
Belinda, I've gotta give a real "Thanks a whole heck of a lot" for starting this thread... It's all I can think about. Now I think it's really going to happen. You have me all worried. Think I'll go sip on a chilly one and ponder...

As far as water goes one gallon of Clorox will go a LONG way. Just let the chlorine off gas before drinking and it will even smell good. But, if we are talking much longer than Belinda's post then you need to find a method other than boiling as well. Boiling water is VERY labor intensive, fine for short term survival but you are going to need your time for other things.

greg lindsey
12-20-2011, 5:51 PM
I didn't read all the posts so I don't know if the "zombie " posts are here, but, I'm ready,plenty of food and water to last a year, so much ammo that if my neighbors knew they would probably be nervous, but in reality I will only need one bullet in the end. I ain't gonna be no Zombie food. :0

Mike Cruz
12-20-2011, 5:56 PM
Unless the woodstove is alreay going... But in summertime, I doubt it will be humming along. Of course, that would be a great time to get that second woodstove I have in the house that we never use outside...just keep it fired up out there!

Belinda Williamson
12-20-2011, 6:22 PM
Belinda, I've gotta give a real "Thanks a whole heck of a lot" for starting this thread... It's all I can think about. Now I think it's really going to happen. You have me all worried. Think I'll go sip on a chilly one and ponder...

You are very welcome Mike.:D If you people knew what goes through my head at 3 a.m. you'd have me committed.

Van, water, that's why I have several containers of those little magic water purification pills in the camping (escape) gear.

If the world is still revolving in March I'll be taking my second medicinal plants and how to use them class.

Don't forget to have a sewing kit in your pack. It'll come in handy.

Mike Cruz
12-20-2011, 6:28 PM
HA! Our sewing kits... That's like me saying "And don't forget to bring some chisels." on a knitting forum. :D

Belinda Williamson
12-20-2011, 6:32 PM
HA! Our sewing kits... That's like me saying "And don't forget to bring some chisels." on a knitting forum. :D

When you get a really bad gash from the ax when you're cutting wood for that stove you'll appreciate me and my sewing kit. I was going to use beeswax on the thread so it goes through the skin easier, but for you I'll make an exception. Heck you're a tough guy, I'll even save the grain alcohol. :D Oh, and don't expect me to knit . . . one of the many things I can't do. I make up for it with wit though. :rolleyes:

ray hampton
12-20-2011, 6:34 PM
HA! Our sewing kits... That's like me saying "And don't forget to bring some chisels." on a knitting forum. :D

a sewing kit is a good idea if you got enough needles, the needles can be use to catch fish or attach to arrows for small game head, the arrow could also be use as a weapon if you know how to needle people

Larry Edgerton
12-20-2011, 6:39 PM
I could ride my bike to swamp but that wouldn't be too safe. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but the first mental image that poped into my head is the old neighbor lady on the Wizzard of Oz.....

Made me chuckle. Do you have a really big black hat? Nobody would mess with you then.:p

Larry

Larry Edgerton
12-20-2011, 6:55 PM
I remember about a week or so after Hurricane Katrina they interviewed residents that had fully prepared to be self-sufficient for such events: generators, fuel, ammo, food. Because they were the only house on their block or neighborhood that could self-subsist, they were an instant target and had to limit running their generators, not have lights on at night, etc and had to arm themselves for protection. It made me wonder if it was really worth it. We all saw how a large group of people reacted after being "stranded" at the SuperDome for only two days in a small geographic area. A nationwide event would bring out the absolute worst in most people in a very short period of time. .I went down to New Orleans when Katrina hit. These people were looting our power line trucks stealing parts that they had no clue what they were and that had almost no value outside of getting the power back on, all the while bitching that the power was not coming on soon enough. The owner of the company said the hell with them and we picked up and moved to Orange TX. Those people there were the total opposite, greatest bunch of folks that one could ask for.Then we went to Miami, another hole not worth saving. The lowlifes there were robbing guys in bucket trucks. Well, until we started shooting back.Katrina taught me a lot. There are a lot of oxygen thieves out there.Come to think of it, a good house cleaning may be in order..........Larry

Belinda Williamson
12-20-2011, 7:13 PM
Do you have a really big black hat? Nobody would mess with you then.:p
Larry

Yep, and I got me some flying monkeys in the garage! They like chocolate dipped bananas.


There are a lot of oxygen thieves out there.Come to think of it, a good house cleaning may be in order..........Larry

Dare I say, "agreed"?

Van Huskey
12-20-2011, 7:18 PM
A house cleaning will likely leave a bigger percentage of "dirt" still moving.

ray hampton
12-20-2011, 7:24 PM
Yep, and I got me some flying monkeys in the garage! They like chocolate dipped bananas.



Dare I say, "agreed"?


Belinda, are you a good "housekeeper " ?

Van Huskey
12-20-2011, 7:28 PM
I think a further salient question for many people would be how long would you want to survive if the situation became permanent.

ray hampton
12-20-2011, 7:46 PM
my cable company are showing the older movies that I saw fifty years ago, am watching the postman at this time, the television stations will be showing more old movies and how to survive movies during the year to come w

Mike Cruz
12-20-2011, 9:13 PM
Belinda, whether or not your sewing kit is appreciated would have to be seen...you on the other hand, will always be appreciated. Didn't realize the swamp you were refering to running to was the one in my woods! :eek:

Mike Archambeau
12-20-2011, 9:16 PM
Belinda, I can grab a cold six pack, a large bottle of rum, my 357 mag...all in under a minute. What else would I need? ;)

Did you remember the part about making love and sitting on the porch for a spell. You won't need the 357 but the booze could come in handy for that! 8))

Mike Archambeau
12-20-2011, 9:21 PM
I didn't read all the posts so I don't know if the "zombie " posts are here, but, I'm ready,plenty of food and water to last a year, so much ammo that if my neighbors knew they would probably be nervous, but in reality I will only need one bullet in the end. I ain't gonna be no Zombie food. :0

Well the neighbors had no idea until today.........

Mike Cruz
12-20-2011, 10:20 PM
Mike you are right...I completely forgot...forgive me... The 357 is for keeping everyone off my wife!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike Cruz
12-20-2011, 10:22 PM
Belinda, still can't believe you don't have more views and posts with this one than Curtis does with car subs... Seemed like this one had gone so viral, you'd be pushing an all time high!

Derek Gilmer
12-20-2011, 10:59 PM
Belinda, still can't believe you don't have more views and posts with this one than Curtis does with car subs... Seemed like this one had gone so viral, you'd be pushing an all time high!
If you took curtis' "I know I have good advice but I found a new crappy sub for cheap" posts out this thread would win :)

Larry Edgerton
12-21-2011, 5:23 AM
I am an insomniac, and this is one of the things I was mulling over last night.

I found it kind of funny that what started this thread, an electrical power outage, is something that was not even in existance not much more than a hundred years ago, and here we are so dependant on it that we question our survival. Hmmm....

And I thought it was the oil companys that had us by the short hair.

Larry

Belinda Williamson
12-21-2011, 8:51 AM
I am an insomniac, and this is one of the things I was mulling over last night.

I found it kind of funny that what started this thread, an electrical power outage, is something that was not even in existance not much more than a hundred years ago, and here we are so dependant on it that we question our survival. Hmmm....

And I thought it was the oil companys that had us by the short hair.

Larry

Insomnia and I are well acquainted. If I sleep more than four to five hours a night I'm lucky, and that leaves lots of time for contemplating things like the theory of crustal displacement as a cause for mass exctinction, and other such flights of fancy. I don't doubt that I could survive an electrical power outage, it's those out there that are so dependent on electricity that scare me. I lived in Augusta, GA for a number of years. Once or twice a year we would have a couple of inches of snow. The grocery store insanity that followed the first weather report for snow/ice never ceased to amaze me. I just made sure I had enough wood on the porch for the wood stove. One year we had an ice storm on, or near, New Year's Eve. My husband at the time got stuck on call at the hospital. I slept in a sleeping bag on the living room floor in front of the wood stove for three nights as we had electric heat as a primary at the time and the power was out. I also cooked on the wood stove. It was fun, sort of like camping out, but it would take some getting used to long term (that's assuming I could stay in one place).

As to the question of my "housekeeping" skills, I was a victim once and the good Lord willing I will never be a victim again. I know in my heart that I could kill to protect myself or those I care about. I pray I never have to do so.

Belinda Williamson
12-21-2011, 9:10 AM
Belinda, whether or not your sewing kit is appreciated would have to be seen...you on the other hand, will always be appreciated. Didn't realize the swamp you were refering to running to was the one in my woods! :eek:

Mike, I'm not running to your swamp, so don't panic. Just saying that IF we ended up in the same tribe, and IF you gashed your foot, you'd be thankful for my sewing skills. On the other hand, your wife has waaay better skills for treating varmints such as yourself so I'd be completely unnecessary in the tribe. :D

Rod Sheridan
12-21-2011, 10:08 AM
I was ask that question my freshman year in college and my response was basically get a chaise lounge and a few gallons of Jack and watch. Strangely enough after 26 years the only difference in my answer is getting two chaises (one for my wife) and instead of Jack a dozen cases of Trappist beer.

That's the ticket.

Although I am relatively prepared as a large city dweller, I'm not prepared for the end of civilisation, nor are most people in my opinion.

When we think of living off the land, most think of the late 19th century or early 20th century, you know, when we still had technology like steam, sailing ships, etc.

We don't have that technology any longer, and probably couldn't restart it.

I think the end of civilisation would be like the middle centuries, something we have no social memory of, and that's probably a good thing.

Nope, I'm with Van, sit back and watch the nitwits until one of them shoots me for my last beer..............Rod.

ray hampton
12-21-2011, 5:40 PM
Insomnia and I are well acquainted. If I sleep more than four to five hours a night I'm lucky, and that leaves lots of time for contemplating things like the theory of crustal displacement as a cause for mass exctinction, and other such flights of fancy. I don't doubt that I could survive an electrical power outage, it's those out there that are so dependent on electricity that scare me. I lived in Augusta, GA for a number of years. Once or twice a year we would have a couple of inches of snow. The grocery store insanity that followed the first weather report for snow/ice never ceased to amaze me. I just made sure I had enough wood on the porch for the wood stove. One year we had an ice storm on, or near, New Year's Eve. My husband at the time got stuck on call at the hospital. I slept in a sleeping bag on the living room floor in front of the wood stove for three nights as we had electric heat as a primary at the time and the power was out. I also cooked on the wood stove. It was fun, sort of like camping out, but it would take some getting used to long term (that's assuming I could stay in one place).

As to the question of my "housekeeping" skills, I was a victim once and the good Lord willing I will never be a victim again. I know in my heart that I could kill to protect myself or those I care about. I pray I never have to do so.

Belinda, I doubt that you think the way that I think but I think that if someone got hurt because I fail to protect them then it is the same as me hurting them myself

Jay Maiers
12-21-2011, 6:16 PM
That's the ticket.

Although I am relatively prepared as a large city dweller, I'm not prepared for the end of civilisation, nor are most people in my opinion.

When we think of living off the land, most think of the late 19th century or early 20th century, you know, when we still had technology like steam, sailing ships, etc.

We don't have that technology any longer, and probably couldn't restart it.

I think the end of civilisation would be like the middle centuries, something we have no social memory of, and that's probably a good thing.

Nope, I'm with Van, sit back and watch the nitwits until one of them shoots me for my last beer..............Rod.


I disagree. It's not like we'll have to reinvent the wheel. As long as we have books and the ability to read them, technology (and "progress") will return. Let's just hope that it stops before anyone reads about strip malls :)

Gary Max
12-21-2011, 6:50 PM
The Amish get by just fine off the grid.

keith ouellette
12-21-2011, 7:29 PM
Groups of inner city thugs, and they out number everyone else but at least 10 to one, will come and take most everything you set aside in a catastrophe. If they don't then your un prepared neighbors will. In the type of situation I think we are talking about the areas of the world that are the most civilized will suddenly become the most desperate and uncivilized. If you live in montana or out in the desert or now where in maine you will stand a much better chance but most everyone else is screwed.

Me and mine won't survive unless God decides otherwise for us. Other than that I'm not really worried about it.

Van Huskey
12-21-2011, 7:31 PM
The Amish get by just fine off the grid.

Agreed, but in the converse if MOST of them were dropped off in the center of times square with only their clothes and an Iphone it is unlikely they would survive any better than the average city dweller in the wilderness.

Gary Max
12-21-2011, 9:36 PM
Agreed, but in the converse if MOST of them were dropped off in the center of times square with only their clothes and an Iphone it is unlikely they would survive any better than the average city dweller in the wilderness.

Guess that's why I live out in the country---never even wanted to see time square.

Fred Belknap
12-21-2011, 10:27 PM
Most would be surprised at how little one needs to survive. Individual we may not survive but there will be some that survive and carry on.

Rich Engelhardt
12-22-2011, 8:59 AM
I actually asked Santa for a new pistol for Christmas, but I'm not sure if he's allowed to fly with firearms any more. I want something really small that will fit in an evening bag.
Okie dokie then!
There's several decent choices available in both revolver and semi auto.
IMHO - the small revolver is the more versitle since it comes in more available chamberings which do multiple things well.
.38/.357 is a very good all around choice. Smith and Wesson maskes the small J frame Model 60. Ruger has it's SP in that. Colt had their "dick special" in .38spl for a bit more "class" than the other two.
In a semi auto - IMHO - there's no reason to go with a lesser caliber than 9mm Luger. There's several good small "purse sized" ones available.

I don't want to debate or defend that here - it's well outside the scope of this forum. There's plenty of firearms forums out there for that.

My personal fondness is heavily towards calibers that start with .4. However,,,you'd need a good sized purse for a Smith model 29 ;) <- hint - Do you feel lucky punk?
OTOH - I have what you could easily call an addiction to the .22 rimfire.
However it all shakes out for you, I'm sure Santa will be good to you... :)

Edit to add - corneredcat.com is an excellent site to visit for a ladies perspective on firearms and carry of firearms.
I've followed Kathy's posts for years on a few forums, and she's really got her act together.

Belinda Williamson
12-22-2011, 9:10 AM
Okie dokie then!
There's several decent choices available in both revolver and semi auto.
IMHO - the small revolver is the more versitle since it comes in more available chamberings which do multiple things well.
.38/.357 is a very good all around choice. Smith and Wesson maskes the small J frame Model 60. Ruger has it's SP in that. Colt had their "dick special" in .38spl for a bit more "class" than the other two.
In a semi auto - IMHO - there's no reason to go with a lesser caliber than 9mm Luger. There's several good small "purse sized" ones available.

I don't want to debate or defend that here - it's well outside the scope of this forum. There's plenty of firearms forums out there for that.

My personal fondness is heavily towards calibers that start with .4. However,,,you'd need a good sized purse for a Smith model 29 ;) <- hint - Do you feel lucky punk?
OTOH - I have what you could easily call an addiction to the .22 rimfire.
However it all shakes out for you, I'm sure Santa will be good to you... :)

Thanks for the input Rich. I like my Beretta 380 but it really weighs down the purse. When I'm feeling lucky and just want to have fun I like the 44 Magnum with a 9" barrel. :D The little 38 usually lives in my desk drawer, and sometimes in my purse.

Derek Gilmer
12-22-2011, 10:23 AM
Thanks for the input Rich. I like my Beretta 380 but it really weighs down the purse. When I'm feeling lucky and just want to have fun I like the 44 Magnum with a 9" barrel. :D The little 38 usually lives in my desk drawer, and sometimes in my purse.
Get rid of the bersa. Too may well done gel tests show the 380 lacks reliable penetration for quick bad guy incapacitation imho. 9mm or 38spl is as low as I'd go. And I've seen some reports of poor expansion reliability from .45acp in shorter pocket gun barrels. So to me 38spl/.357 mag in a snubby or 9mm or .40 in a pocket auto is the sweet spot.

Or a draco mini in 7.62x39. But that is slightly harder to conceal :)

Belinda Williamson
12-22-2011, 11:26 AM
Get rid of the bersa. Too may well done gel tests show the 380 lacks reliable penetration for quick bad guy incapacitation imho. 9mm or 38spl is as low as I'd go. And I've seen some reports of poor expansion reliability from .45acp in shorter pocket gun barrels. So to me 38spl/.357 mag in a snubby or 9mm or .40 in a pocket auto is the sweet spot.

Or a draco mini in 7.62x39. But that is slightly harder to conceal :)

The 380 - even with hollow points? Dang. When I bought the 380 it was between that and a 9 mm. I didn't have the hand strength to pull the slide back on the 9 mm. I guess I'll have to revisit that and try out some different manufacturers. Thanks for the input.

Rich Engelhardt
12-22-2011, 11:57 AM
I didn't have the hand strength to pull the slide back on the 9 mm
On a hammer type action you can thumb back the hammer first, then jack the slide.
Actually though, most locked breach guns (9mm and .45acp) will have a slide that's easier to work than a blowback action, like the .380.
A blowack action needs a heavier recoil (slide) spring to keep the gun in battery while the bullet is being fired.

Anyhow the Beretta is a quality piece. IMHO - reliabilty and accuracy trump anything else. If it goes bang every time you pull the trigger and the little holes in the target are where you aim - you're probably light years ahead of whoever is on the other side of the social encounter.

.44 Remington Magnum huh,,? :D You go girl!
I always knew you were a lady of breeding and appreciated the finer things in life ;)
(BTW - the barrel is probably 8 3/8", not 9 - but - what the heck)

Belinda Williamson
12-22-2011, 12:12 PM
.44 Remington Magnum huh,,? :D You go girl!
I always knew you were a lady of breeding and appreciated the finer things in life ;)
(BTW - the barrel is probably 8 3/8", not 9 - but - what the heck)

Well I never actually measured the barrel. :) That gun usually lives on the nightstand. It's a straight shot from the bed to the front door, so I figure I can just point and shoot. :D

Van Huskey
12-22-2011, 12:14 PM
The 380 - even with hollow points? Dang. When I bought the 380 it was between that and a 9 mm. I didn't have the hand strength to pull the slide back on the 9 mm. I guess I'll have to revisit that and try out some different manufacturers. Thanks for the input.

Shot placement is much more important that any other single metric when it comes to stopping anything or anyone. Without knowing your body strength (racking a 9mm slide does give insight though) I would point out comfort level and the ability to re-aquire the sight picture is paramount, otherwise you are in "spray and pray" mode, which admittedly can work a large percentage of the time. For a defensive posture most people will be better off with a revolver, since most people are uncomfortable carrying with one in the chamber. Bottom line the brain/muscle memory to hold a 3 shot 4" group at 20ft with your heart rate pegged over 200 and your vision obscured is far more important than how hot your load is or the characteristics of the projectile. The decision if, when or how to escalate is even more important than that.

Derek Gilmer
12-22-2011, 12:54 PM
The 380 - even with hollow points? Dang. When I bought the 380 it was between that and a 9 mm. I didn't have the hand strength to pull the slide back on the 9 mm. I guess I'll have to revisit that and try out some different manufacturers. Thanks for the input.
Here you go, an article by a pretty savy guy when it comes to making effective holes in bad guys: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914

Summary .380 = no go, 9mm or 38spl = good stuff, .357 out of a snubby = over kill and likely make follow up shots harder.

David G Baker
12-22-2011, 1:50 PM
I have always voted for 12 gage with buck shot load for home protection. Short barrel may even be better. Haven't seen one of the 410 pistols in person but they might be another good choice.

Belinda Williamson
12-22-2011, 2:36 PM
Thanks Derek. I was in the middle of reading when we lost power here. Power is now back on but I actually have to do some work so I'll pick it back up tonight.

Derek Gilmer
12-22-2011, 3:38 PM
I have always voted for 12 gage with buck shot load for home protection. Short barrel may even be better. Haven't seen one of the 410 pistols in person but they might be another good choice.

No. Taurus is getting rich selling them but a .410 shell is horrible for self defense. Stick to a service caliber like 9mm, .40, .45, .357, 44mag, .357 sig etc. Ballistic testing on the .410 buck or slug rounds from a judge are pretty sad compared to even a .45 long colt from it.

Now if you are defending against rats and snacks the taurus judge in titanium is amazing for that. I'm lusting after one to take fishing for snakes pretty bad.

Bonnie Campbell
12-22-2011, 3:46 PM
The Judge does good as a snake gun for sure. Buckshot for close two and no-legged snakes, the 45 colt for distance.

Belinda Williamson
12-22-2011, 3:56 PM
Yay Bonnie! I was starting to feel outnumbered. :D

Completely OT - but what isn't in this thread - I have several recurring dreams/nightmares. One is that I'm in a life threatening situation, I pull the trigger, and the bullet just sort of falls out of the barrel, or I pull the trigger and nothing happens. Hmmmm . . . wonder what that means. Fear of inadequacy?

Jim Koepke
12-22-2011, 4:24 PM
I on the other hand am sporting a 1947 Dodge pickup, complete with a hand crank so I am all set. No electronics, and even if the battery fails it will still run as it has a generator instead of an alternator.

Ever try to fire up your pickup with the battery disconnected?

Maybe if it had a magneto instead of a generator or alternator.

A generator/alternator uses the battery to power the field coil. Without a field, it will not generate. If you have a residual magnetism in the field, then you could get lucky.

jtk

Art Mulder
12-22-2011, 6:59 PM
No, I'm not here to sell you freeze dried food, tarps, and duct tape. Just reading through threads in the past couple of days and wondering how many here believe they could survive is something catastrophic happened - zombie apocalypse excluded. As most here are the DIY type, I'm guessing quite a few could and would survive. How prepared are you, and what steps toward preparedness would you recommend? Let's say, for example, we lost the entire US power grid for a month or so, how bad do you think things would get?


Hmmm, I just read the entire thread, and I find it amazing how the majority of answers seems to be exclusively individualistic.
Do you really think that the local fire + police dept would completely fold?

I didn't see one suggestion for heading to the nearest military base. I would think that those places would be pretty good destinations -- full of well trained, well armed, well prepared people, intent on upholding law and order.

I guess the problem with an open-ended question like this is there is no hint of what the disaster was.

I live in a city of just over 300,000. 30 days with no electricity would be bad. No stoves, no fridges, no freezers. If there is fuel, then I assume that the city could keep up the pumps for water, but if not, then it's game over and everyone better head for the hills.

...art

Belinda Williamson
12-22-2011, 9:07 PM
Hmmm, I just read the entire thread, and I find it amazing how the majority of answers seems to be exclusively individualistic.
Do you really think that the local fire + police dept would completely fold?

I didn't see one suggestion for heading to the nearest military base. I would think that those places would be pretty good destinations -- full of well trained, well armed, well prepared people, intent on upholding law and order.

I guess the problem with an open-ended question like this is there is no hint of what the disaster was.

I live in a city of just over 300,000. 30 days with no electricity would be bad. No stoves, no fridges, no freezers. If there is fuel, then I assume that the city could keep up the pumps for water, but if not, then it's game over and everyone better head for the hills.

...art

I've seen the local police department in action and I don't think they would fold as much as be totally overwhelmed. I have the utmost respect for them, they would just be outgunned by the local thugs. Several years ago on the weekend of St. Patrick's Day (which is huge here) a tornado hit an electrical sub station and the entire city lost power. The big celebration area is River Street and that year there were two points of entry and all other entry points were barricaded. When the power outage occurred 350,000 people attempted to leave River Street through two gates, at the direction of the police, while tornado sirens were sounding since there was a tornado headed down the river straight for us. It was amazing how quickly the panic set in.

30 days without electricity here? Within the first five days we would have massive looting.

Anywho, just throwing the question out there and apparently didn't put enough thought into laying out the scenario, etc. Name your disaster, each would be different. With hurricanes we also get flooding. With tornadoes we have trees blocking the roads. I was just curious as to whether people felt prepared to handle a disaster.

Brian Ashton
12-23-2011, 7:14 AM
Belinda, today is the 12/20/2011, the 12 months count-down starts tonight until the next December 12/21/2012, the 21 is the first day of winter

I can't remember the official name but it's something like the law of laws... Or the Law of simplicity of laws... Either way it says the simpler the explanation the more accurate it most likely is. I've heard a few mention the "end of the world" calendar by the mayans... Doesn't it seem more probable that they simply said "that's enough... I think we can stop adding dates to the calendar for now. Let those in a couple thousand years add a few thousand more when they reach the end of our work..."

Chris Kennedy
12-23-2011, 8:29 AM
I can't remember the official name but it's something like the law of laws... Or the Law of simplicity of laws... Either way it says the simpler the explanation the more accurate it most likely is.

I think you are referring to Occam's Razor -- the simpler explanation is more likely than the more complicated.

Larry Edgerton
12-23-2011, 5:27 PM
I have decided where I want to be when your hypothetical mass power outage takes place. Not here, I am too close to Detroit.

I want to be in Iowa. When they were half under water, did you hear of any looting, violence, or even general whining. No they just handled the situation and helped each other out. Yup, its Iowa for me......

Larry

Van Huskey
12-23-2011, 5:37 PM
I have decided where I want to be when your hypothetical mass power outage takes place. Not here, I am too close to Detroit.

I want to be in Iowa. When they were half under water, did you hear of any looting, violence, or even general whining. No they just handled the situation and helped each other out. Yup, its Iowa for me......

Larry

I don't think Iowa is the key. I think the key to that is low population density, it is not simple but rather complex BUT it all comes back to the population density.

Brian Elfert
12-23-2011, 8:05 PM
Hmmm, I just read the entire thread, and I find it amazing how the majority of answers seems to be exclusively individualistic.
Do you really think that the local fire + police dept would completely fold?


As Belinda already suggested, law enforcement would probably be overwhelmed. Do they have long term fuel stores to keep vehicles running if they can't get fuel deliveries during an emergency? I know some police vehicles get fuel from government owned pumps, but many smaller departments contract with one or more stations to purchase their fuel. Does that station or stations have a generator? Will their stores of fuel be saved for exclusive use of law enforcement?

The military has the government oil reserves, but do they have a refinery to convert that stored crude into usable fuel?

Chris Kennedy
12-23-2011, 8:20 PM
As Belinda already suggested, law enforcement would probably be overwhelmed. Do they have long term fuel stores to keep vehicles running if they can't get fuel deliveries during an emergency? I know some police vehicles get fuel from government owned pumps, but many smaller departments contract with one or more stations to purchase their fuel. Does that station or stations have a generator? Will their stores of fuel be saved for exclusive use of law enforcement?

The military has the government oil reserves, but do they have a refinery to convert that stored crude into usable fuel?

My dad worked at an oil refinery in the Bay Area. There were disaster plans to get the refinery up and running as a number one priority for the government.

Cheers,

Chris

Gordon Eyre
12-24-2011, 3:39 PM
I am prepared and yes I would survive. I would gather my family around me and establish a compound. We are armed and we all have food storage. Water would be our first priority; however, we do have some water storage as well. We are all capable people with different skills, including medical. We would become hunter gatherers.

Mike Cruz
12-24-2011, 6:39 PM
Gordon, where exactly do you live...it might come in handy for me some to know... ;) :D

james glenn
12-26-2011, 4:48 PM
I find it funny that this topic has come up, as my friends and I often talk about this lately for some strange reason. Maybe the economy and the times, or we are all coutry boys with nothing better to do. Who knows.

In answer to the question however, I probably have a slight advantage over many since I own a hobby beef cattle farm with my family. We still have many of the hand tools and implements that my grandfather and great grandfather used to farm in their day. But I would need a few horses to pull them, which my neighbor does have. (I would have to trade some food to them)

We also have a spring that flows year round and never freezes in addition to a creek with fresh water.

So I can hunt; build; gather; grow; raise cattle, chickens, pigs; even have some beginings of wind and solar power.

The compound idea seems best though, to protect the assets from the city folk. haha

John A langley
12-28-2011, 9:05 AM
When Katrina hit New Orleans there was a picture in the newspaper of a group of men standing on the bridge with guns and a sign warning looters to stay out of their neighborhood and I think it worked. I, like many of you, have lots of guns and ammunition. I think if I could only take 2or3 I would take my 44 magnum revolver. I would take my 12 gauge sis-by-side shortened up as much as possible and my AR15. My wife would have my M1 Carbines. Light and lots of fire power. I do believe at first there would be a lot of small groups, not necessarily related that would ban together to help one another. If you remember 9-11, a lot of people came together to help one another

Bonnie Campbell
12-28-2011, 12:52 PM
If things went totally bad for a good length of time.... anybody figuring to protect themselves with fire arms best be prepared. You'll need all the components for reloading. Unless you have stock piled loaded ammo...

A book I found to be interesting reading, along the lines of civilization ending, was 'The Hab Theory' by Allan W. Eckert.

Van Huskey
12-28-2011, 2:15 PM
If things went totally bad for a good length of time.... anybody figuring to protect themselves with fire arms best be prepared. You'll need all the components for reloading. Unless you have stock piled loaded ammo...

A book I found to be interesting reading, along the lines of civilization ending, was 'The Hab Theory' by Allan W. Eckert.

Guns will be a non-issue in short order, but useful in Belinda's senario. It will be the ones that can fashion useful hunting and defence weapons from the land that will survive a long term situation. A compound built early on will simply be a beacon screaming come take our stuff and it will be taken. Going to ground with as low a profile as possible until the initial "cull" is over will likely be the best method for long term success.

Jay Maiers
12-28-2011, 2:54 PM
A book I found to be interesting reading, along the lines of civilization ending, was 'The Hab Theory' by Allan W. Eckert.

From Amazon:
20 used & new (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/gp/offer-listing/0595008208/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&storeAttribute=b&qid=1325099151&sr=1-1&submit.see-all-buying-options=see-all-buying-options&condition=all) from $62.26

:eek:

Also from Amazon:
Sell Back Your Copy
For a $2.52 Gift Card

Lol.
One Second After is my (current) favorite TEOTWAWKI novel.

Jay Maiers
12-28-2011, 3:04 PM
Guns will be a non-issue in short order, but useful in Belinda's senario. It will be the ones that can fashion useful hunting and defence weapons from the land that will survive a long term situation. A compound built early on will simply be a beacon screaming come take our stuff and it will be taken. Going to ground with as low a profile as possible until the initial "cull" is over will likely be the best method for long term success.

While true, I wonder how long that would really take, or if one can really stock enough stuff to stay out of sight for that long.

Belinda Williamson
12-28-2011, 3:09 PM
While true, I wonder how long that would really take, or if one can really stock enough stuff to stay out of sight for that long.

I don't think you can stock enough stuff. If you could how would you transport it? You'll need to keep a low profile and be ready to move at a moment's notice. That reminds me, I need more bug spray.

Bonnie Campbell
12-28-2011, 3:19 PM
From Amazon:
20 used & new (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/gp/offer-listing/0595008208/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&storeAttribute=b&qid=1325099151&sr=1-1&submit.see-all-buying-options=see-all-buying-options&condition=all) from $62.26

:eek:

Also from Amazon:
Sell Back Your Copy
For a $2.52 Gift Card

Lol.
One Second After is my (current) favorite TEOTWAWKI novel.


That's why I'm hanging on to my book LOL I think I bought it for a quarter at a garage sale ;)

Belinda Williamson
12-28-2011, 3:25 PM
A book I found to be interesting reading, along the lines of civilization ending, was 'The Hab Theory' by Allan W. Eckert.

HAB theory, basically the same as crustal displacement theory. Not saying I think it's going to happen, just find it to be a interesting concept.

http://www.crystalinks.com/crustal.html

Jay Maiers
12-28-2011, 4:21 PM
I don't think you can stock enough stuff. If you could how would you transport it? You'll need to keep a low profile and be ready to move at a moment's notice. That reminds me, I need more bug spray.


The only way to do that would be to set up several storage sites and hope they don't get looted. Not a very good idea unless you can bury them or hide them really well, and keep quiet about it.

We aren't ready for a long term bug-out. I doubt 99.995% of the population could handle it without a lot of preperation, and there probably wouldn't be enough warning.
Then again (as I think I've said before), I don't believe we'll ever face anything of that magnitude. On a local level? Yeah. Nationwide / worldwide (ala The Road, etc), no. All my wife and I can do is prepare to help ourselves and a few others in a short term emergency, and have some back-up plans for longer term problems.

Van Huskey
12-28-2011, 6:33 PM
While true, I wonder how long that would really take, or if one can really stock enough stuff to stay out of sight for that long.

I think if your plan is to live on stores you have given up before the game begins. IF I chose the route I mentioned I will be loading the boat and push off (into my front yard LOL) and disappear into the bayous and swamps of south Louisiana. The swamps down here are like a grocery store.

Belinda, as for bug spray forget it, after a few days and no showers the bugs don't pay nearly as much attention to you as they normally would.

As I have mentioned before survival will be as much luck as skill. When it is all said and done there will probably be as many "never seen a tree" types alive as those that have spent their lives backpacking in the wilderness and hunting with primative weapons and traps.

Michelle Rich
12-29-2011, 5:51 AM
Funny you ask: I've been off the grid for over 25 yrs. I'm still here! I've lived in the wilderness very happily with handtools to build my house and to live in harmony with 'ol mom nature.

Ron Bontz
01-02-2012, 12:29 AM
This has been an interesting read. Those we think of as civilized would no doubt perish. They are, as mentioned, dependent on power, water, natural gas, etc. They would no doubt be the first to become cannibalistic" toward others. The fear of death is a pretty powerful incentive to some if not most in our society. Those we consider to be uncivilized, anti social living away from the "society" I am guessing would have a better chance. If they stayed unknown. And if you run to the mountains or swamps, others will follow. There is a theory that mankind has been basically wiped out before with only the most isolated surviving, living in caves along the ocean. Probably the anti social outcast of their day.:D I don't know myself.:confused: I think perhaps either the Mayan ran out of tablet space for his/her story or died before it could be finished.:( Superstitious beliefs, religion, etc are, after all, some of the oldest forms of Govt. to control the masses. When people live in fear, and the Mayans did, they enslave themselves to those they believe have influence over destiny. In the end. We shall find out soon enough. ;)

Jamie Cowan
01-02-2012, 10:45 PM
We have built up an entitlement society that many members are used to having things handed to them. What are they going to do if the handouts stop? Do you think they will pick up a hoe and start a garden?


I'm assuming you're talking about bankers, brokers and trust fund kids when you speak of handouts and entitlements.

Mike Cruz
01-02-2012, 11:28 PM
I think he's talking about Americans in GENERAL. We, as a society, seem to feel that we are owed and are due things. The idea of actually earning things (from material things to respect) is so out of the norm that it is pitiful. We have become a "gimme because I deserve" society...we are doomed.:mad:

Bryan Morgan
01-03-2012, 1:11 AM
I think he's talking about Americans in GENERAL. We, as a society, seem to feel that we are owed and are due things. The idea of actually earning things (from material things to respect) is so out of the norm that it is pitiful. We have become a "gimme because I deserve" society...we are doomed.:mad:

Agreed. In a survival situation I'd hope they get educated real quick or as bad as it sounds, die off.

Mike Cruz
01-03-2012, 6:18 AM
Bryan, so we have to wait for a "could you survive" situation? :o

Hilel Salomon
01-03-2012, 7:41 PM
I would do just fine. Of course, I'd have to take into my yacht the following: My shop equipment, lathe, table saw etc., my computers, kindle, I Pad, I pod and -since I would have my grandchildren with me-the
Wii games. I'd probably have to trade in my tv's for the 72 and 84" ones so that all of us can watch the BCS and Superbowl. I'd need several chainsaws (probably my Stihl 660 and Husky 576 along with some limb saws) in case there were trees floating in our yacht's path. I'd take my guns and shotguns (in case anyone wanted to board my craft). In addition to my electric toothbrush, juicer, rice maker and bread machine, I'd have to take one or two espresso machines as well, because it would be hell without my morning cups of joe. Survival??? Heck, I'd thrive!!!

LOL

Hilel

Betty Fox
01-04-2012, 11:11 AM
Excellent thread. Every time we travel from Oregon to Washington State I marvel at the tenacity of our ancestors to persevere over rivers and mountains to attain their dream of land ownership. I doubt very seriously that ninety percent of the population have the 'right stuff' to do that particularly the younger generation that walks side by side talking to each other on the cell phone. Recently I heard on the radio that the first casualty of the diminished economy is cable television and the kids cry over it profusely. THAT is how soft our children are if we don't teach them survival skills. I doubt I would live past the first week. I could kill a chicken but I'd have to be VERY hungry.

Ryan Mooney
01-04-2012, 1:05 PM
Every time we travel from Oregon to Washington State I marvel at the tenacity of our ancestors to persevere over rivers and mountains to attain their dream of land ownership. I doubt very seriously that ninety percent of the population have the 'right stuff' to do that particularly the younger generation that walks side by side talking to each other on the cell phone.

I would wager that 90% of the population back then didn't have the "right stuff" either. Frontier life was not for everyone and many who tried didn't make it (one way or another). The amount of effort previously required to traverse land that we zoom over at unbelievable speeds amazes me as well (well more the how easy it is now than how hard it was then, but also the tenacity of the folks who did). I figure there is a good reason most folks never used to leave their hometown.


I could kill a chicken but I'd have to be VERY hungry.

Hehe.. so I co-owned a small flock of meat chickens with a friend a few years back and inducted him into the fine art of the axe, the block and the scalding pot. There were a few interesting side events along the way:

First chicken he was said "man I'm not sure how I feel about this" followed about 5 minutes later as as I put the carcass into the ice bath "hey that looks just like chicken".
Neighbors visiting and not wanting to tell their kid that chicken comes from.. well chicken!
Person driving by - on a _very_ rural road; sees the chickens hanging from their feet to be plucked; STOPS and BACKS UP to take a closer look. Expression of confused amazement evident...
Most folks are very detached, or indeed in outright denial about, from their food sources nowadays.

Belinda Williamson
01-04-2012, 1:49 PM
I can't kill/eat anything I've named. Had a pet pig once and couldn't eat pork for a while. I'm guessing if I have to provide my own food I'll have to be a vegetarian.

ray hampton
01-04-2012, 2:02 PM
I can't kill/eat anything I've named. Had a pet pig once and couldn't eat pork for a while. I'm guessing if I have to provide my own food I'll have to be a vegetarian.
why not trade the vegetables for some fresh game

Belinda Williamson
01-04-2012, 2:27 PM
why not trade the vegetables for some fresh game

I suppose I'll have to Ray. On the up side, I probably won't turn into a cannibal. Well, not if you're a friend anyway. :rolleyes:

Ryan Mooney
01-04-2012, 4:44 PM
I can't kill/eat anything I've named. Had a pet pig once and couldn't eat pork for a while. I'm guessing if I have to provide my own food I'll have to be a vegetarian.

Friend of ours got some rabbit meat from someone he knew and told me this story. Apparently the guy would kill and wrap the rabbits then store them in the freezer long enough that he couldn't remember which was which before he ate them.

We named a lot of our steers. Good names like "Sir Loin" and "Chuck".

ray hampton
01-04-2012, 8:52 PM
I suppose I'll have to Ray. On the up side, I probably won't turn into a cannibal. Well, not if you're a friend anyway. :rolleyes:

I hope that you are a friend , I got too many enemies now

Bryan Morgan
01-05-2012, 2:05 PM
I can't kill/eat anything I've named. Had a pet pig once and couldn't eat pork for a while. I'm guessing if I have to provide my own food I'll have to be a vegetarian.

I sometimes tease my dogs and call them "apocalypse food". I'd eat them. Well, I'd definitely eat the wimpier one, the other I'd keep as a guard as long as I could.

Bonnie Campbell
01-05-2012, 3:05 PM
Just remember to stock up on spices. You can hide the flavor of things you'll end up having to eat lol

Jim Burr
01-06-2012, 6:48 PM
Being habitually late...My "other job" is with DMAT CA-6. We spend our time deploying to post-disaster austere environments setting up field hospitals. We carry two bags, Carry-on and load out. At home we have a ball with this scenario, gas grill with 3 tanks, propane lanterns, crank up radios with solar cells, water filter pumps...forget water storage. My kids love it when the power says Goodnight because it's BBQ sandwiches an card games! Food and water are important, contact and distraction are better! At home, this has happened twice for two days each time...we had a ball!

Kevin Gregoire
01-06-2012, 11:59 PM
i think i would do fairly well about surviving, cept for the tv and internet withdrawals.
i have been shooting guns since i was around 9 but we sold most of my fathers gun
collection over the years to help pay bills and the only thing left is an olympic target
rifle, a pump .22, a couple old winchester .22's and my ruger mark II pistol. i need to
dump the ruger and get a nice home defense shotgun and dump the target rifle for an
ar-15.

as for supplies i have a fair amount of canned goods but would need a lot more and then
a bunch of cases of bottled water and fill a ton of gallon milk jugs with water. have plenty
of gas and kerosene on hand and coleman fuel bottles.

also print out some ebooks on urban survival would be a good idea, have a bunch of
various sized batteries and of course i need a good generator. some tarps, duct tape,
bags of pet food, and it would be a very good idea to have cash on hand and if i had the
money it would be nice to have some various small sized bars of gold also.
then for worse case scenarios a few gas masks and filters and being diabetic i would want
extra insulin and other meds on hand.

im sure im forgetting a ton of stuff but never having to do it before it would be a never
ending learning curve.

Jay Maiers
01-07-2012, 12:04 PM
... and fill a ton of gallon milk jugs with water.

Good idea, bad container. Milk jugs will eventually begin to leak; you'll lose your water and ruin whatever they're sitting on.
DAMHIKT.
If you want to store water, buy real containers or step up to rain barrels.

Kevin Gregoire
01-07-2012, 12:14 PM
how long before a milk jug starts leaking?
i have had one in my garage that i put the drippings in from
empty quarts of oil and that jug has been sitting for at least
20 years.

ray hampton
01-07-2012, 12:57 PM
milk jugs are not the only plastic containers that will leak , vegetable oil seems to seek through the containers wall even without a hole in the jug

Belinda Williamson
01-07-2012, 1:58 PM
Storing water and canned goods, etc., are great ideas if you are going to hunker down in place. I'll stick with water purification tablets and dried food. That stuff fits in my backpack. In all reality, let's face it, a woman probably won't survive alone so I'll have to find my tribe really early on.

Van Huskey
01-07-2012, 3:22 PM
Storing water and canned goods, etc., are great ideas if you are going to hunker down in place. I'll stick with water purification tablets and dried food. That stuff fits in my backpack. In all reality, let's face it, a person probably won't survive alone so I'll have to find my tribe really early on.

There fixed it for you!

Belinda Williamson
01-07-2012, 4:36 PM
There fixed it for you!

Well thank you Van. :D However, I believe a lone male is more likely to survive than a lone female. The wolves tend to prey on the one they believe to be defenseless. On the other hand, women may command a premium if enough of them die off. Sadly, I'm past my prime but I'm still good for cooking and gathering fire wood.

ray hampton
01-07-2012, 8:00 PM
How are you or we suppose to stay in touch with the family tribe, no computer, no cell phone , no landline, only smoke signals and only smokers understand the smoke signals

Belinda Williamson
01-08-2012, 8:59 AM
How are you or we suppose to stay in touch with the family tribe, no computer, no cell phone , no landline, only smoke signals and only smokers understand the smoke signals

I think that a sudden lack of ability to communicate - being cut off from everyone - would be the hardest thing for most people today, particularly younger people. One thing we would just have to face is that we might never see or speak to friends and family again. The people you group with to survive become your new tribe. As part of preparedness we're advised to have a "meeting point" other than home, etc., in case of emergency. I've evacuated Savannah in a timely, controlled evacuation, and thinking that you can make it to a meeting point in any other scenario is just about ridiculous. If you were the only person trying to get out of danger and to a meeting point, that would be one thing, but in a city of any size - forget it.

Jay Maiers
01-08-2012, 10:27 AM
How are you or we suppose to stay in touch with the family tribe, no computer, no cell phone , no landline, only smoke signals and only smokers understand the smoke signals


Ham radio, a couple of car batteries, and a small solar panel setup to keep things charged. The same charging setup can work to keep your laptop, e-book reader, etc.

Moot point in an EMP scenario.

ray hampton
01-08-2012, 1:33 PM
ham or cb radio plus a heavy car battery pack plus a cart to hold the extra supplies, do solar cells work on very cloudy days ? not a moot point

Jay Maiers
01-08-2012, 3:16 PM
do solar cells work on very cloudy days ? not a moot point

Nope. However, some charge and occasional use is better than no comms at all. Hand crank chargers are also available, but they'll probably only work for small things like cell phones.

In the aftermath of a big hurricane or an earthquake, it can take weeks or more to get power and communications back on line. While I'd bet that cellular service has become a high priority after a disaster, restoration of services will still take some time. During the interim, an individual with a ham radio could provide a much needed community service, especially in rural or less traveled areas.

I'm not prepared in this area. It's something I'd like to do, but it's way down on my list. I've got a couple of NOAA emergency radios, but no way to transmit. Even if I did have a transmitter, none of my friends or family is prepared to receive. Also, the likelyhood of a long term and widespread problem in my area is pretty slim (again with the hurricanes earthquakes, etc.). If it's TEOTWAWKI, well, too bad for me.