Long term shop vacumm report

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

My shop has several dust collection systems.

I have a 3.5HP cyclone system I use for the table saw, Planer, and joiner

For various other tools I have two Feins, 2 Shop vacs, and 2 Festool vacumms.

All the vacumes get use every day. Both the Festool and the Fein get heavy use. The larger Fein get the heaviest use as it is used on my CNC. OF all the vacumms I am sad to say I have had the most problems with the Festool. Both have failed due to internal electrical connections.

My oldest vacumes (not including my cyclone) are the Fein and shop Vacs. The Festool are the newest.

While I will say the Festool vacumm seems to have the most power of all the vacumms I will not replace them with Festool vacumes. For heavy duty use I will go with the Fein vacumms and for intermediate use l will go with the larger Shop vacs.

[scott vroom]

Vacuums suck.

[Rick Fisher]

Well, that's depressing.. I just had my Fein die after about 3 years and was going to look at a Festool.. I think I will try the new Makita.. Had good luck with that brand for durability..

[Victor Robinson]

About how old are your Feins, Michael?

[James White]

Have you considered Bosch? I could have sworn. I recently read a shoot out where the Bosch had top honors. That said it could have been a magazine. Where Bosch was a big advertiser. You never know who to trust.

James

[Dan Barber1]

Have you considered Bosch? I could have sworn. I recently read a shoot out where the Bosch had top honors. That said it could have been a magazine. Where Bosch was a big advertiser. You never know who to trust.

James
Yeah, I saw that too in a magazine on the stands now but I don't remember which one.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

One of the Feins is real old 6 or 7 years old (could be older). The Fein I use on my CNC is 3+ years old.

The Fein collectors are a little easyer to workwith than the Festool.
For instance here is a little project I created that holds a mini cyclone ontop of my Fein.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGvMbcwpm3M

[Van Huskey]

Have you considered Bosch? I could have sworn. I recently read a shoot out where the Bosch had top honors. That said it could have been a magazine. Where Bosch was a big advertiser. You never know who to trust.

James

FWW annual Tools & Shops. The Bosch did win. The Festool took a beating partly because it lost so much of its initial suction in use, almost 50% and it had the lowest CFM to start with. The biggest issue for the Bosch is it was louder than the rest, a good margin louder than the Fein/Festool. The Fein and Festool were 74 and 73dB and the Bosch was at 91dB. Those that understand the nature of the decibel scale get how large a difference that actually is.

I plan to build a whole shop vacuum system, I plan to use two large BORG shop vacs run parallel with HEPA filters and a to be determined chip trap. If you don't need to move the vacuum much the best solution for a high static shop vac system is the Dust Cobra but it isn't cheap. But when compared to these vacuums it really does look like a bargain.

[Neil Brooks]

Not only is Van right, but ... in a subsequent issue ... people /lambasted/ FWW for "ignoring" the 91dB effect.

That difference ... IS huge. It's the difference between "have to wear earmuffs when it's running," and ... can hardly hear it.

[Jason Coen]

FWW annual Tools & Shops. The Bosch did win. The Festool took a beating partly because it lost so much of its initial suction in use, almost 50% and it had the lowest CFM to start with.

This is to be expected since the reviewer decided to remove the collection bag from the Festool. His reasoning was that most users would not use the vacuum with the bag to begin with, so that's how he setup the machine to perform the test.

I'll withhold speculating as to whether there existed other motives for this decision, but will say I have never, ever seen a Festool vacuum in actual, real-world use being operated in this state. In my experience with these vacuums, not a single person that I've ever encountered who owns this vac would use it in this manner. I simply cannot stress how far outside the norm this setup exists, but will reserve from casting direct aspersions in the hopes that there are others whose experience with this vacuum is 180* from what mine has been.

[Van Huskey]

This is to be expected since the reviewer decided to remove the collection bag from the Festool. His reasoning was that most users would not use the vacuum with the bag to begin with, so that's how he setup the machine to perform the test.

I'll withhold speculating as to whether there existed other motives for this decision, but will say I have never, ever seen a Festool vacuum in actual, real-world use being operated in this state. In my experience with these vacuums, not a single person that I've ever encountered who owns this vac would use it in this manner. I simply cannot stress how far outside the norm this setup exists, but will reserve from casting direct aspersions in the hopes that there are others whose experience with this vacuum is 180* from what mine has been.

That is an excellent point, when a reviewer makes the decision not to use a product in the manufacturers suggested guidlines he/she leaves the barn door open for speculation and destroys some of the usefulness of the concusions. I would argue the conclusion regarding airflow would have been the same had he used the Festool "correctly" since the all but one of the vacs matched (within 3 cfm) or bettered the Festools initial CFM in use, so it would be a safe bet the Festool would have been in the same second to last spot in in use cfm however the margin would have been smaller. Assuming his methodology was correct for his measurements and the Festool was a properly functioning unit it seems it lacks the raw volume of the Bosch as did all the others. The question of noise may be important to some, not an issue for others. If one is buying into the Festool "system" I think the CT26 et al are THE vacuum to buy, the systems just plain works. If one is not going to be using it for Fetool tools I think the Bosch (volume no withstanding) may be a smart alternative as is the venerable Fein vacs. I do however feel that if one does not plan to use the vac outside the shop then there are cheaper potentially more effective solutions to any of these vacs or one seriously better solution for a significant increase in money. If one is willing to spend the money a Dust Cobra setup is IMHO the way to go.

[Chris Rosenberger]

This is to be expected since the reviewer decided to remove the collection bag from the Festool. His reasoning was that most users would not use the vacuum with the bag to begin with, so that's how he setup the machine to perform the test.

I'll withhold speculating as to whether there existed other motives for this decision, but will say I have never, ever seen a Festool vacuum in actual, real-world use being operated in this state. In my experience with these vacuums, not a single person that I've ever encountered who owns this vac would use it in this manner. I simply cannot stress how far outside the norm this setup exists, but will reserve from casting direct aspersions in the hopes that there are others whose experience with this vacuum is 180* from what mine has been.

Another issue with the test & reason the Festool had the lowest CFM was that the reviewer used a 1 1/16" hose on the Festool & a 2" hose on the other vacs. The test was biased from the start, in favor of the Bosch.

[Joe Jensen]

Another issue with the test & reason the Festool had the lowest CFM was that the reviewer used a 1 1/16" on the Festool & a 2" hose on the other vacs. The test was biased from the start, in favor of the Bosch.

That's either brain dead stupid on the part of the author or clear cut bias. WOW. Really makes you wonder about the credibilty of FWW (one of my favorite mags and the only one I still subscribe to)

[glenn bradley]

FWW annual Tools & Shops. The Bosch did win.


people /lambasted/ FWW for "ignoring" the 91dB effect.


This is to be expected since the reviewer decided to remove the collection bag from the Festool.


when a reviewer makes the decision not to use a product in the manufacturers suggested guidlines he/she . . . destroys some of the usefulness of the concusions.


the reviewer used a 1 1/16" hose on the Festool & a 2" hose on the other vacs. The test was biased from the start, in favor of the Bosch.


Really makes you wonder about the credibilty of FWW (one of my favorite mags and the only one I still subscribe to)

I still enjoy and generally respect FWW magazine. They're reviews have a long track record of being suspect. When a Luguna bandsaw won best tool when it was the only saw to fully stall during the tests is when they lost me. If the Laguna stalled and the Ridgid didn't, I have to suspect the consistency of their tests. Bad process equals bad data equals bad results. Love the mag but, I take the reviews as entertaining, not informative.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

I was able to tear down the Festool today. While I thought it was a bad wire as it was the last time. This time it was a loose connector on the motor. Festool uses the little crimped lugs to attach the motor to the controller. There are also a couple used internally on the motor. One of these was loose.

I removed the connector from the lug. Cleaned the contacts. Tightened the connector using some pliers then reinserted on the lug. She is back to normal again.

As for the tests in FWW. I don’t think they have anything to do with the durability of the machine as they did not do any long term testing. And considering my bouts lately with Bosch products, I would not even consider a Bosch unit.

[Jason Coen]

That is an excellent point, when a reviewer makes the decision not to use a product in the manufacturers suggested guidlines he/she leaves the barn door open for speculation and destroys some of the usefulness of the concusions. I would argue the conclusion regarding airflow would have been the same had he used the Festool "correctly" since the all but one of the vacs matched (within 3 cfm) or bettered the Festools initial CFM in use, so it would be a safe bet the Festool would have been in the same second to last spot in in use cfm however the margin would have been smaller. Assuming his methodology was correct for his measurements and the Festool was a properly functioning unit it seems it lacks the raw volume of the Bosch as did all the others. The question of noise may be important to some, not an issue for others. If one is buying into the Festool "system" I think the CT26 et al are THE vacuum to buy, the systems just plain works. If one is not going to be using it for Fetool tools I think the Bosch (volume no withstanding) may be a smart alternative as is the venerable Fein vacs. I do however feel that if one does not plan to use the vac outside the shop then there are cheaper potentially more effective solutions to any of these vacs or one seriously better solution for a significant increase in money. If one is willing to spend the money a Dust Cobra setup is IMHO the way to go.

I agree 100% with everything you said. I have a CT26 set up with a boom arm over an MFT/3. Quite frequently these, and the necessary tools, travel with me. If I didn't have a need for portability and hadn't already purchased several other Festool products, I'd have done exactly as you suggested.

[Anthony Whitesell]

91dB? In some areas that's higher than the OSHA requirements for REQUIRING hearing protection. I wonder if the box has a stick on it to that end.

[Rick Fisher]

The Bosch is actually just a rebranded German Vac. I think its made by Star ? Cant remember..

This article gives it a sound rating of 69 db .. I seem to remember that the Festool is the loudest of the bunch ..

http://products.howstuffworks.com/bosch-airsweep-3931a-wet-dry-vacuum-review.htm

[James White]

This is to be expected since the reviewer decided to remove the collection bag from the Festool. His reasoning was that most users would not use the vacuum with the bag to begin with, so that's how he setup the machine to perform the test.

I'll withhold speculating as to whether there existed other motives for this decision, but will say I have never, ever seen a Festool vacuum in actual, real-world use being operated in this state. In my experience with these vacuums, not a single person that I've ever encountered who owns this vac would use it in this manner. I simply cannot stress how far outside the norm this setup exists, but will reserve from casting direct aspersions in the hopes that there are others whose experience with this vacuum is 180* from what mine has been.

Jason,

Are you sure they removed the bag for the test? I was at the book store last night. I tried my hardest to find where it said that the test was conducted without filter bags. I did see where they recommended not using bags in shop vacs in general. But I did not take that to mean that the tests were conducted without them.

What size hose does the Festool come with? If it is not 2.5" then the test was fair in my view. As far as noise goes. For me it is almost irrelevant. If my shop vac is on. It means I am using power tools and have hearing protection on.

James

[Van Huskey]

Just FYI regarding the test. I went back and re-read the review and they did come up with the working CFM numbers by removing the bags and filling each vac with fine dust twice. If you read between the lines you can come up with two reasons why they may have done this either because they feel the average user will not always use the bags OR to accelerate the clogging of the HEPA filter to get an idea of where CFM will end up at or near the life of the HEPA filter. In any event the Festool was seriously out sucked by the Bosch when completly clean with a bag or seriously dirty without. The thing to keep in mind is the Festool was designed within their system and even with the lower flow it is probably more than made up by the uber effecient dust collection of the Festool tools. Make note they tested all the vacs WITHOUT bags in their "in use" test so it is an even playing field but one must temper your decision with this in mind, further if anyone is looking the bagless test info is not in the text it is in the sidebar entitled By The Numbers just beside the results chart.

I tend to take stock in FWW reviews and most other magazine reviews for that matter. Usually the ones that scream loudest about them have some sour grapes if you look hard enough, a classic example was in the past (say from the late 80s to the mid 2000s) BMW won just about every comparo they were in, the Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti and Audi forums were filled with cries of favoritism, the reality was the chassis and drivetrains were just the benchmark. One has to remember that tests are a lot of opinion, even when data is gathered, since if nothing else the data gathered represents an opinion as to what is important about a tool. Most tests don't include long term use so there is no reliability or durability built into the conclusion.

[Joe Jensen]

Just FYI regarding the test. I went back and re-read the review and they did come up with the working CFM numbers by removing the bags and filling each vac with fine dust twice. If you read between the lines you can come up with two reasons why they may have done this either because they feel the average user will not always use the bags OR to accelerate the clogging of the HEPA filter to get an idea of where CFM will end up at or near the life of the HEPA filter. In any event the Festool was seriously out sucked by the Bosch when completly clean with a bag or seriously dirty without. The thing to keep in mind is the Festool was designed within their system and even with the lower flow it is probably more than made up by the uber effecient dust collection of the Festool tools. Make note they tested all the vacs WITHOUT bags in their "in use" test so it is an even playing field but one must temper your decision with this in mind, further if anyone is looking the bagless test info is not in the text it is in the sidebar entitled By The Numbers just beside the results chart.

I tend to take stock in FWW reviews and most other magazine reviews for that matter. Usually the ones that scream loudest about them have some sour grapes if you look hard enough, a classic example was in the past (say from the late 80s to the mid 2000s) BMW won just about every comparo they were in, the Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti and Audi forums were filled with cries of favoritism, the reality was the chassis and drivetrains were just the benchmark. One has to remember that tests are a lot of opinion, even when data is gathered, since if nothing else the data gathered represents an opinion as to what is important about a tool. Most tests don't include long term use so there is no reliability or durability built into the conclusion.


Still, if they tested the Festool with a much smaller diameter hose than the others they are flat our wrong. I have 3 diameters of Festool hose. I beleive if you buy the vac alone (I don't own a Festool vac, I have a WAP), you get the large hose. If you buy with a saw you get the medium hose and if you buy with a sander you get the small diameter hose. In general going from a 2" hose to a 1.25" hose will reduce the cfm by half or more.

[Van Huskey]

Still, if they tested the Festool with a much smaller diameter hose than the others they are flat our wrong. I have 3 diameters of Festool hose. I beleive if you buy the vac alone (I don't own a Festool vac, I have a WAP), you get the large hose. If you buy with a saw you get the medium hose and if you buy with a sander you get the small diameter hose. In general going from a 2" hose to a 1.25" hose will reduce the cfm by half or more.


I have to disagree STRONGLY. The Festool ships with the hose they used. Let me give an analogy though not 100% perfect I think it illustrates my point. Lets say a car magazine picks four cars to compare and one of the data points is derived from a dry skid pad test, car manufacturer X's standard tire spec is an all season tire where car manufacturers W, Y and Z cars have as standard spec of a high performance tire. It is completly correct IMHO to compare the skid pad number,s even though car X is at a disadvantage since the manufacturer chose to equip the car that way. Could they go farther and test what a product could be if one adds accesories sure, but where does that end. The Festool vacs are excellent but they are not perfect for everyone in every situation, this threads may point to the possible fact they are not ideal for long duty cycle work over extended periods of time.


BTW although not as small as the Festool the Bosch had one of the smallest hoses in the test. Based on the numbers my guess is even with the same hose size the Bosch out sucks the Festool by a significant margin. In the end the reviewer weighs the data points based on his criteria, if one were to be using it in someones home noise might make the Fein and Festool much more attractive for in shop use where cfm and waste capacity may be more of an issue to someone that always uses ear protection and the Bosch may rise to the top.

[Mike Wilkins]

Wonder why the FWW review did not consider the Porter Cable vacuums. I have been using the 10 gallon unit for about 7 years with no problems at all. Even use it with a Festool tool (circular saw). And the PC units have the auto-start feature that comes on when the tool is turned on, and runs for about 12 seconds after the tool is shut off.

[Van Huskey]

Wonder why the FWW review did not consider the Porter Cable vacuums. I have been using the 10 gallon unit for about 7 years with no problems at all. Even use it with a Festool tool (circular saw). And the PC units have the auto-start feature that comes on when the tool is turned on, and runs for about 12 seconds after the tool is shut off.

As with most comparos availabilty or manufacturer non-interest is usually a big part of the equation. Most magazines do not buy the items they test and are at the mercy of the manufacturer to provide a sample. Certainly I have no idea what the actual reason was but it is rare to see a tool test with every comparable tool in the test. I have used a PC vac while using a drywall powersander (also a PC) and it worked very well.

[David Hawxhurst]

not all the vacuums are hepa. the bosch only comes with a filter rated at 99.97% at 3.0 microns and for an additional $150 you can upgrade to true hepa filters rated at 99.97% at .3 microns. wonder how much air flow you would loose by using the real hepa filter in the bosch. the festool comes out of the box with true hepa.

[Greg R Bradley]

I see problems with the review and question an assumption or two in the posts.

I have run the Fein Turbo II and III right next to the Bosch unit and there is little difference in noise level. I don't recall thinking either one was louder than another so there just can't be 10 db difference, let alone 20+ db. I am very sure my 20 year old Fein is louder than the Bosch.

The Bosch is a rebranded vacuum from a European company. There are other size units in the series from the manufacturer.

Festool has 27mm (1 1/16") and 36mm and 50mm hoses. The little one is for dust extraction with small tools and the big one is for "shop vac" use. It seems Festool markets their vacuums mostly to use with their tools and then they can be used as a shop vac, perhaps optimally with other accessories like a bigger hose.
Fein has 30mm & 50mm hoses. The Turbo I and II ship with the 30mm since they are most likely to be used for dust extraction. The Turbo III ships with the 50mm since it is more likely to be used as a shop vac instead of dust collection attached to a hand tool.
Bosch has 35mm & 50mm hoses.
It seems to me they should have used the appropriate size hose if they were testing them as a "shop vac". The hoses all interchange so they have no excuse not to have tested them with the same size hose even if the model they ordered were shipped with different hoses.

I have to say they are all really good vacuums. Which one is "best" probably depends on your uses and what is important to you for features. Now if we could just get one that had the best features of each.........

[Jim German]

You guys seemed to skip over the big reason why the Bosch won, the Pulse Clean mechanism that shakes the filter clean and restores it to nearly full suction.

I also find it interesting that neither the Bosch or the Festool came close to their advertised flow rates of ~130 CFM. The manufacturer should be factoring in hose size in that spec, since its not like you can use a vacuum without a hose. The article did mention that the Festool had the smallest diameter hose, but thats the one it comes with.

[Van Huskey]

You guys seemed to skip over the big reason why the Bosch won, the Pulse Clean mechanism that shakes the filter clean and restores it to nearly full suction.

I also find it interesting that neither the Bosch or the Festool came close to their advertised flow rates of ~130 CFM. The manufacturer should be factoring in hose size in that spec, since its not like you can use a vacuum without a hose. The article did mention that the Festool had the smallest diameter hose, but thats the one it comes with.

The pulse clean, working airflow and second largest capacity is what he mentions as making the Bosch and easy winner. He list the two drawbacks sound pressure level and rather small hose that it ships with, interestingly he makes mention the hose doesn't reduce airflow much, I don't know how he came to that conclusion.

There was a vac test a coupled of years ago in FWW also where the vacs all showed higher flow rates, much closer to the advertised flow rate but I haven't bothered to look it up and compare the methodology of the test.

[Neil Brooks]

I was cogitating on this, a bit, this morning.

I started wondering whether -- like "proper" DCs -- it was inadequate to rate these shop vacuums using only the criteria that they used.

Meaning: from my understanding ... to REALLY understand the pull, utility, and applicability of a DC (more importantly: to compare more than one), you really MUST know the fan curve. In other words, you have to know how many CFM it will pull at a given static pressure, and how increased static pressure affects that curve.

Even if/though there are a lot of variables in these shop vacs, or -- certainly -- DC's, I think the fan curve tends to cancel out many/most of those, and lets you know what's going to happen when you put the pedal to the metal, add a few extra 45s, ceiling mount your duct work -- rather than under-floor mounting -- increase/decrease duct/hose/dust port diameter/length, or add additional galvy duct vs. flex hose ... to name a few.

Is the problem that ... most people won't understand the utility of that information, or that ... it's NOT a given that fan curve info IS critical, or .... ???

[Van Huskey]

I was cogitating on this, a bit, this morning.

I started wondering whether -- like "proper" DCs -- it was inadequate to rate these shop vacuums using only the criteria that they used.

Meaning: from my understanding ... to REALLY understand the pull, utility, and applicability of a DC (more importantly: to compare more than one), you really MUST know the fan curve. In other words, you have to know how many CFM it will pull at a given static pressure, and how increased static pressure affects that curve.

Even if/though there are a lot of variables in these shop vacs, or -- certainly -- DC's, I think the fan curve tends to cancel out many/most of those, and lets you know what's going to happen when you put the pedal to the metal, add a few extra 45s, ceiling mount your duct work -- rather than under-floor mounting -- increase/decrease duct/hose/dust port diameter/length, or add additional galvy duct vs. flex hose ... to name a few.

Is the problem that ... most people won't understand the utility of that information, or that ... it's NOT a given that fan curve info IS critical, or .... ???


I agree to an extent BUT these vacs will see less loss as a percentage than DCs since they are designed to operate at high static pressures. The low static pressure efficiency zone of DCs mean that a little pipe and a couple of 90* turns make a huge impact, 20 feet of hose and three 90* turns in it would have little impact percentage wise on the flow of the vacs.


In the end a fan curve would be ideal but I think it brings far less useful information to the table compared to a DC.

[Neil Brooks]

Good points, Van.

It also seems likely that ... the use/hookup of a vacuum is much simpler THAN a DC, and less likely to be subject TO the additions that might affect static pressure.

[Rod Sheridan]

When I read the review I couldn't believe that anyone would be stupid enough to remove the bag from a HEPA vacuum for testing.

Of course the HEPA filter clogged...........DUH it's only supposed to filter out the small amounts of very tiny dust that makes it through the primary filter (bag).

What's next, converting two stage cyclones to single stage and then complaining that the filter plugs?

If I remember correctly the Festool was measured at 31 CFM..........I wonder if it's a typo and they missed the 1 in front?

Regards, Rod.

[Van Huskey]

not all the vacuums are hepa. the bosch only comes with a filter rated at 99.97% at 3.0 microns and for an additional $150 you can upgrade to true hepa filters rated at 99.97% at .3 microns. wonder how much air flow you would loose by using the real hepa filter in the bosch. the festool comes out of the box with true hepa.

Either FWW or you is incorrect, that stated that all but one of the Dewalts came stadard with a HEPA filter and they ordered and used the HEPA filter for the Dewalt in question.

[Van Huskey]

When I read the review I couldn't believe that anyone would be stupid enough to remove the bag from a HEPA vacuum for testing.

Of course the HEPA filter clogged...........DUH it's only supposed to filter out the small amounts of very tiny dust that makes it through the primary filter (bag).

What's next, converting two stage cyclones to single stage and then complaining that the filter plugs?

If I remember correctly the Festool was measured at 31 CFM..........I wonder if it's a typo and they missed the 1 in front?

Regards, Rod.


They gave their reasoning and it would be valid for some people, I think what it showed was even without the use of the bag the Bosch's self cleaning function may save you the money for the bags as it restored the flow almost back to full. The 31 cfm for the Festool was not missing a 1 since the starting cfm was only 61cfm.

This is like any comparo be it tools, computers or cars, if it is not what we want to hear we adjust the data to support our opinion, I do it all the time. The bottom line is all it is good for is knowing what product the reviewer would pick, beyond that we individually interpret the data and observations in any way we see fit. For me personally they all look like a poor value, for the way I plan to set up my shop (with a fixed central vac system) I can do more for less and a lot more for more. None of the vacs hit a sweet spot for me.

[James White]

I plan to build a whole shop vacuum system, I plan to use two large BORG shop vacs run parallel with HEPA filters and a to be determined chip trap.

Van,

What vac units did you have in mind for this? What would the HEPA arrangement look like?

Thanks for pointing out the sidebar info. I admit I was speed reading and must have missed that. I was more interested in reading a Woodwork article about Toshio Odates battle with a mighty Oak. Before my wife finished her mall shopping.

James

[Van Huskey]

Van,

What vac units did you have in mind for this? What would the HEPA arrangement look like?

Thanks for pointing out the sidebar info. I admit I was speed reading and must have missed that. I was more interested in reading a Woodwork article about Toshio Odates battle with a mighty Oak. Before my wife finished her mall shopping.

James

I will be using a pair of standard shop vacs in parallel, based on preliminary research large Rigid ones, then just add Cleanstream Hepa Filters http://www.cleanstream.com . I will probably be using the Rockler Vortex as the "chip trap" as it seems to be well received. It will be plumbed throughout the shop with 3" PVC using true union ball valves on the drops, which can be used to vary the flow for sanders etc. I will wire them with two of these: http://www.amazon.com/M-Bright-iVac-Automated-Vacuum-Switch/dp/B0035YGLZG . The key is I will have three different 20 amp circuits coming into the closet with the vacs. The neat thing about the switch is it is set up to plug into two outlets so it allows you to have 15amps for the vac and 15 amps for the tool (assuming you have 2 circuits) further I will wire the second switch in series so the first switch will sense the current pull from the second switch and turn on the first vac, the tool outlet on the second switch will be wired back into the wall and run to a set of outlets around the shop (black plates on them instead of white). Even if I didn't explain it well enough when the upshot is when I plug in a tool to one of these outlets and turn it on it turns on both vacs. All this and I don't have to move a vac around and drops from the ceiling mean no need for booms or hoses to trip on.

So what I get is big CFM, HEPA filtration, an easy to empty large chip container, current sensing on/off, adjustable suction, shop wide access with ceiling drops, with the loud bits in a sound "proofed" closet. All this for about the price of one of the vacs reviewed in the article in question.

[Larry Edgerton]

I subscribed to FWW when they were black and white, and I lost faith in them a long time ago. Haven't subscribed for over ten years.

Larry

[David Hawxhurst]

i pulled my data from the bosch website http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=3931A-PB. and what is fww calling hepa?

[Van Huskey]

i pulled my data from the bosch website http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=3931A-PB. and what is fww calling hepa?

Good question. I didn't see where FWW quantified what the reviewer "thinks" HEPA is. Possibly another area of concern regarding the data! Regardless of the review, I think most people here will buy either the Festool or the Fein for a number of reasons.

[Jim German]

HEPA is very well defined as 99.97% at 0.3 microns. I doubt FWW would be calling the 3.0 micron filter a HEPA, unless they mis-read the spec. I think its more likely that where ever they got the vac from gave them the HEPA filter, and they didn't realize its supposed to be a $150 accessory.