Green Hypocrisy

[Larry Edgerton]

I went to see a customer today and as I was leaving she looked out and saw my large van and chided me for driving such inefficient transport, while telling me how efficient her Prius is.

Heres the rub: She was at her 6500 ft. vacation house built on a previously pristeen bit of lakeshore, all glass on the lake side, heated pool, and all of it heated/cooled year round for about a month of actual use. Her house downstate is bigger of course, and when she is up here she is not turning the heat off down there either.

I live in a VERY efficient 1100 ft house, my normal car gets 36MPG without toxic batteries, and I don't have a vacation house at all. I could drive my van 24 hours a day and never use as much fuel as it takes to keep their pools warm!

Another customer was asking me if I use green building practices.
The week before he had had one pilot fly his helocopter 500 miles to the airport here to pick him up after another pilot flew him in his Gulfstream up to the airport, alone. He keeps a Mercedes wagon at the airport, but didn't want to drive it the 17 miles to the house. How green would I have to be to make up for that one weekend?

These are the kind of people that will bulldoze their little piece of the lakeshore, and then try to stop anyone else from building on the lake. One of my customers was stopped from doing anything on his property by a lady that had just built down the lake, didn't even bother to talk to my client, but filed an injunction because of "Monkey flower" on the property, which she could not have found without disregarding the No Tresspassing signs. I told my customer not to worry about it and I took care of the problem. Gotta love Roundup.......

Not about green, but a recently retired CEO of a multinational was trying to beat me up on price because times were tight and he couldn't afford it. This was after we had walked by a GT40 and a Lambo parked in the garage. Really?

I am so glad that my time in this business is almost over. One of these days I am going to say what I am actually thinking........

I do have a core of really great clients, but some of the others I have to deal with just blow my mind.

Ok, I vented, I feel better..

Larry

[ray hampton]

Larry . I can not see your face so tell me do you look better ?
telling some people where to go is a hazardous to your health so be very carefil

[John Coloccia]

Demonstrating yet again the lack of correlation between intelligence and success..

[Joel Goodman]

+1 on the hypocrisy rant!! This is the problem, the more money we have, the more toys we have, the bigger our carbon footprint. So a rich man will be responsible for more carbon. But the rich want to be rich and have the moral high ground.
A friend (who drives a Prius) told me a joke --- "What does a Prius emit?" Answer -- "Smug"

[Van Huskey]

+1 on the hypocrisy rant!! This is the problem, the more money we have, the more toys we have, the bigger our carbon footprint. So a rich man will be responsible for more carbon. But the rich want to be rich and have the moral high ground.
A friend (who drives a Prius) told me a joke --- "What does a Prius emit?" Answer -- "Smug"

"SMUG" he must be a South Park fan. The episode was called Smug Alert http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155193/thanks

[Van Huskey]

Demonstrating yet again the lack of correlation between intelligence and success..

I suggest it is more a direct correlation with success and entitlement. Giving said people the benefit of the doubt they may buy carbon offsets... :rolleyes:

[Jim Matthews]

These are the kind of people that will bulldoze their little piece of the lakeshore, and then try to stop anyone else from building on the lake.
Larry

I call this the "Montana effect": after purchasing a valley, the new owners proclaim perfection has been achieved on their arrival and attempt to put up a fence.

Money is like a magnetic heavy metal - it draws more to itself, and is poisonous in high concentrations.
Symptoms of money poisoning include; multiple spouses, more than one house and formal dinners to raise awareness of World Hunger.

To be environmentally safe, it needs to be circulated through many hands in exchange for actual work.
Few of the current wealthiest individuals actually make a tangible product or act as employers.

[Phil Thien]

Outstanding. Larry, that belongs in the SMC rant hall of fame.

[Greg Peterson]

I suggest it is more a direct correlation with success and entitlement.:rolleyes:

+1.

Yeah, I know a person or two like this. They are oblivious to their contradictions. A by product of success often times is an over inflated sense of entitlement.

[Kevin W Johnson]

Rich + Green = hypocrisy, in many cases anyways. Its all about what everyone else should do, while those who can buy carbon offsets continue to live the lavish and excessive lifestyle and proclaim that they're "carbon neutral".

[curtis rosche]

"SMUG" he must be a South Park fan. The episode was called Smug Alert http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155193/thanks

that episode is very true

[Jason Roehl]

Outstanding. Larry, that belongs in the SMC rant hall of fame.

I agree.

The RoundUp comment caused me to laugh out loud.

[Jerry Thompson]

I don't know if "Green" and "Rich" go hand in hand. Green and ignorant/stupid are more appropro. Years and years ago I installed solar hot water. All the neighbors excpet on were congratulating me on going Green and saving the enviorment. I told them to hell with that idea I was saving money. This did not seem to go over well. Yet, in this case saving money would reduce electricity use.
The Green objective, in my view, is to eventually control all of us.

[Dave Lehnert]

kinda like the guy in a restaurant who orders coffee with artificial sweetener but has "blueberry pie all over their face".

[john lampros]

Larry, I was in that same position as you described when i was contracting (for 20 yrs). In the beginning when developing a client base I had to eat a lot of crow but as time passed and base grew I realized one day that one of the luxuries of being in my position is that I now get to pick my clients. I started refusing work from people I got a bad feeling from. At first I just tried to price myself out of the job but I found I got most of those jobs anyway. for a while it was great to charge more for people I didnt like but after a while even the money didnt help as I was still working for people of questionable character. Even tho what i wanted to say was your an #$%^ hole and i dont want to work for you find someone else. but I dont think my client base would have held up for long. so I eventually relied on a very long back log to get out of the work, strangely, that worked better than an inflated price. I was Very lucky in that most of my client were very good people, or at least it ended up that way due to it being a conscious effort. My point is, in the beginning when your hungry you get use to eating crow and the time comes when you dont have to but your still stuck in that mode.
Maybe your business is to the point where you can respond to that lady who criticized your van with out being nasty, just enough for her to realize the hypocracy of her statment and if she goes postal on you maybe you didnt need her business anyway. whatever, its the tough part about being in the service industry. hang in there.

[john lampros]

How about adding a "LEED Compliance fee" of 30% for special clients.

[Greg Peterson]

Green and ignorant/stupid are more appropro.

Glad to see you were able to save money by going green. The ROI for green technology is steadily making progress towards coming into line with traditional sources of energy. Like any technology, early adopters often times are less cost sensitive than the average consumer. Going green is starting to make good business sense. Especially with the grants and funding available to convert lighting, install solar, insulation......

Between DIY solar panels and hybrid vehicles or even fully electric vehicles, consumer dependency on gasoline can easily start a downward trend. 95%+ of my driving needs could be met by a vehicle with no more than a fifty mile range. The majority of consumers typically drive short distances. Green transportation options for rural or bedroom community residences and commercial operations are limited at best at this time.

As for the OP, I do agree that someone whose lifestyle includes the luxuries he described should not be questioning his commitment to conserving any of our natural resources.

[John Coloccia]

The guy that replaced my septic tank (who I'm now friends with) told me a story about installing a septic at a clients house. When she saw it being installed, she complained that it was ugly and couldn't he install one made of something like marble.

Nothing against the rich. I hope to be rich some day...filthy stinking rich, actually. I wonder sometimes, though, if we don't do a disservice by dismissing our client's obvious stupidity, no matter their financial situation or "power". For myself, I can't do it. 9 times out of 10 when I challenge a client or customer on some old wives tail or an obvious hypocrisy, I can turn them around as long as I do it respectfully and make it obvious that I'm really just trying to help them. I don't believe most people are really stupid. They just act that way because no one's ever taken the time to lift the veil from their eyes in a way that makes sense.

[Phil Thien]

I don't believe most people are really stupid. They just act that way because no one's ever taken the time to lift the veil from their eyes in a way that makes sense.

Someone used the word "entitled" above. And it is the best word I know to describe many of the wealthy people I've known.

Not all of them, mind you.

But if you feel entitled, you also have a superiority complex, and you aren't that bright. These people tend to become fairly wealthy.

And they constantly rub most of the rest of us the wrong way.

[Bryan Morgan]

I'm really really tired of all this "green" nonsense. It gets in the way of progress. Nothing is green. Everything takes energy which is converted from something else. Thats just the way physics works. Its a clever excuse sold to gullible people to strip them of their rights. Beyond the obvious like not pouring gallons of oil down the drain, I refuse to waste more time or money acting like a trained monkey for some self righteous hypocrites.

[Kevin W Johnson]

Someone used the word "entitled" above. And it is the best word I know to describe many of the wealthy people I've known.

Not all of them, mind you.

But if you feel entitled, you also have a superiority complex, and you aren't that bright. These people tend to become fairly wealthy.

And they constantly rub most of the rest of us the wrong way.

It's not just the wealthy that have a sick sense of entitlement though. Nearly everyday I see or hear of examples in which those with low incomes express a sense of entitlement that irritates me as well. I wish I could go into detail and give specific examples, as it would shine a light on something that most people just don't have exposure too. However the risk to someone's employment is at stake.

The expected entitlements may differ between the two, but the mindset is much the same.

[Larry Edgerton]

This was not intended to be a rant against wealthy people. All of my customers are wealthy and the largest share of them are awesome. People are not bad because they are wealthy any more than they are good because they are poor. I certianly do not begrudge people their wealth, and really do not have any desire to be in their shoes. I like my life where it is.

Most of my customers are wealthy because they work or worked harder than most, and are by and large smarter than average. There are exceptions, but the trust fund types are not attracted to my forthright style. Nor I them. The lady that set me off will be will most likely not like my price, and if she does she will be paying a premium. But she is the exception, not the rule.

Many of my customers have become friends, and at Christmas I still get cards from people that I built homes for twenty years ago. And as John Lampros mentioned I am at a point in my business where I can afford to be a little picky. Not too picky though, this is Michigan after all. I have a 9 month backlog, and I like a two year backlog, so turning work away for a little transgression would not be good business.

What is a shame is that normal working people can no longer afford my services. This is something that concerns me. I have not raised my rates in twenty years, yet costs keep spiraling, and disposable income keeps disappearing for larger and larger groups of people.

I know this because the same thing is happening to me as well. I can do less and less with the money I make, which is about the same for the past twenty years. It got to the point where my business could no longer support the large commercial building I had my shop in, even though it was paid off. Fuel costs that were $330 a month when I bought it were at up to $1500 a month. Electric, taxes, sewer, licences, personal property tax, insurance,workmans comp and on and on kept taking money out of my pocket until it was hard to see the point. Raising my rates to compensate would just mean that I was unemployed at a higher rate, as Michigan was in a depression and people were working for nothing. All of the people that companys like mine laid off were our competition, most often working under the table and so with less expenses. I don't hold that against them, they are doing what they have to do to survive. Playing by the rules has never been harder, both because of the under the table workers, and that the government seems to be on a mission to put us all out of business.

I have slashed my overhead, condensing my shop and home into one piece of property with no sign out front so no commercial taxes and fuel rates so I can do the same amount of work with less cost. Downsizing hits home.

Its OK though, as this is something that actually appeals to me. I want to give up on construction and get away from all of the government regulations that have become rediculious and just work in my shop at home making doors or whatever will sell. I want to disappear......

Larry

[Belinda Barfield]

Fabulous rant, Larry. I certainly feel better as I now know I'm not the only one . . :D

[Brian Elfert]

When someone who is wealthy wants to negotiate a lower cost remember that is probably how they got wealthy in the first place. You don't get rich in business by giving away product and paying too much for products and services to support your business.

As someone else mentioned, there a lot of low income people who feel entitled too. I am solidly middle class with a good income, but I didn't get a flat panel TV until last year. (Only one TV in the house at that.) I know plenty of low income people scraping by who have had a flat panel TV (or two or three) for a number of years. If I was barely making ends meet the last thing I would buy is a $1000 TV.

[Greg Cuetara]

Larry,
I just want to say that have articulated your point very well. In my opinion this shows why it is so difficult to start up a good business. You are lucky that you are at a point where you can choose what you want to do or which jobs you want to take. For those that are just starting out like someone else pointed out you have to eat crow for a while. I never like to compromise my ideals but it is getting to that point in my life.

Back to the original post about being green it would be nice if everyone could just look at the the overall impact and realize where energy comes from and how to just save and that saving and conserving is good..there doesn't need to be a label. I remember reading a letter a while back regarding how people 50 years ago were 'green' but didn't know it. they recycled milk bottles, conserved energy because they had to....rather than people just turning off lights they are not using because it is good you are doing it because you are green....anyways like i said before very articulate and well written post.
Greg

[Don Alexander]

i looked into starting a small business and concluded that you either have to ignore a lot of laws , have enough money that you really don't need a business or find something else to do

i chose option 3 since i wasn't willing to do option 1 and option 2 wasn't actually an option

[Phil Thien]

This was not intended to be a rant against wealthy people.

Not at all. Like I said, I don't believe all wealthy people feel entitled. It is just that, the ones that do often rub people the wrong way.

But let's face it, there are many reasons people become wealthy. The FM (F'ing Magic) principle is not at play.

And I'm talking truly wealthy, I'm talking about people with a net worth of at least tens of millions.

One reason you mention is inheritance. I would put these people at the top of my list of wealthy people to which I cannot relate. Most of them seem like they are caged animals to me, trapped by their inherited wealth.

Another reason I already mentioned are those with a superiority complex-induced entitlement disorder. Don't look it up in the book, I invented that diagnosis. :)

But there are many, many (the vast majority) of wealthy people which I know that I'd classify as manic wealthy.

This is not B.S., there have been studies showing that highly successful people, people like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, etc., are almost always manic and rarely depressed. I'm mentioning those names without knowing for sure whether those two fit the classification, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

It is well known that some manic-depressive individuals stay mostly in their manic phases. They are able to work long, hard hours with little rest. These people can wake up on Monday morning, and stay awake until late Tuesday, go to sleep, and wake up early Wednesday. They don't crash often, and their depressive states are typically very short.

When they're awake, they are hugely productive.

I know some of these people and they are not hugely concerned about creating wealth for themselves, it just happens. It is a byproduct of working so much. No matter what they do, they do it exceptionally well, with incredible attention to detail.

Some people have mentioned poor people that feel entitled. Completely different animal, IMHO. Someone that receives a government entitlement doesn't necessarily feel entitled in the same way as some wealthy. People below the poverty line don't walk around feeling superior to everyone else.

[Belinda Barfield]

Goodness knows I'm certainly thankful for the exceptionally wealthy! I'd be out of a job otherwise. One thing I have learned about them though is that they do not like to hear "no", no matter how much aggravation it could prevent in the future.

[Kevin W Johnson]

When someone who is wealthy wants to negotiate a lower cost remember that is probably how they got wealthy in the first place. You don't get rich in business by giving away product and paying too much for products and services to support your business.

As someone else mentioned, there a lot of low income people who feel entitled too. I am solidly middle class with a good income, but I didn't get a flat panel TV until last year. (Only one TV in the house at that.) I know plenty of low income people scraping by who have had a flat panel TV (or two or three) for a number of years. If I was barely making ends meet the last thing I would buy is a $1000 TV.

My wife and I just finally bought one a couple of years ago too. The ones you speak of are most likely purchasing them with the help of an EIC. Those that go out buy a big tv at tax time with their EIC money, well, that explains a lot about why they're in the situation they're in.

[Jim Matthews]

There is a body of evidence supporting the claims made by the builders of hybrid vehicles.
<http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2008/07/green_beaters.html>

They're not perfect, and they're often a rolling smugatron - but it's a beginning.

[Kevin W Johnson]

I found this....

"In 2008 the British government and British media have requested that Toyota release detailed figures for the energy use and CO2 emissions resulting from the building and disposal of the Prius. Toyota has not supplied the requested data details to support statements that the lifetime energy usage of the Prius (including the increased environmental cost of manufacture and disposal of the nickel-metal hydride battery) is outweighed by lower lifetime fuel consumption. Toyota states that lifetime CO2 saving is 43 percent."

Seems as if Toyota were on the up-n-up, they'd have no problem sharing this information. It's obvious they have someting to hide. Could it be that they are spinning a web of deceit?