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View Full Version : Trotec Speedy 300 - Reporting for Duty, Sir!



Scott Shepherd
12-15-2011, 8:45 PM
We bought a new Trotec Speedy 300 and it arrived this time last week. This was bought to add to our current Universal PLS4.60. We went with 75 Watts this time, as opposed to the 45W of the Universal. When we bought our Universal, I did a fair in depth thread about how it worked and how it was constructed. I'd like to do the same in this thread if I can.

I was a bit shocked when I clicked on the tracking number and saw the shipping weight was 635 lbs. Wow....really? I hope we don't have to move it :) It came, we unpacked it, and luckily, that was a lot of crating materials! The machine was totally assembled, in the create, sealed inside a big bag. We got it off the skid and started rolling it towards the door to it's new home (about 6 inches away from it's brother, the Universal), and quickly found it wouldn't fit through the 36" door. We popped the door frame out and rolled it on in. We decided to do that rather than take the laser off the stand and have to handle that, turned sideways. So be aware, it's about 35 1/2" wide. You can take it apart, we just didn't want to.

Hooked the exhaust to it, then installed the driver, plugged it all in, turned it on, and it came to life, breathing it's first breath in it's new home. I've ran about 100 jobs through it so far and I'm still getting acquainted with the software, so I'll have to update things as I learn about them. First impressions - WOW......that thing is a tank.....and boy is it fast. I mean fast. We ran a job that had 100 of items vector cut on one sheet. I stood there and watched it run for the entire job. It moves from cut to cut so fast you almost can't see it move. It's almost like a magic trick. It was here, then it's there. It's stunning on just how fast this thing moves. It's darn near silent in it's movements. When the table moves up or down, you can't hear it move. It's virtually silent. The machine in general runs quiet. I'm recording about 74db on it while it's running.

The 75 Watts was a big jump for us and worth every single penny. We are seeing DRASTIC reductions in times on jobs we've run for years. I ran a job today that I ran last week on the Universal. It ran 70 minutes on the 45W and it's running 28 minutes on the 75W. That's huge for us. We haven't done a lot of rastering with it yet, but I can see some issues with that, as it's just so fast, even at 75W, it's not enough power to use the machine at 100% speed on most materials I've tried so far. The machine looks, feels, and runs like a Ferrari. It's just lightning fast, super smooth, and deadly accurate.

I'll go over the job control and it's inner workings as I learn more, but right now, I feel like a first grader all over again. You get 3 choices on the Job Control. Basic, Advanced, and Expert, I think (or something like that). We have the Expert. I have no idea why, I didn't pick it, it just came with it, so maybe the Speedy 300 comes with it standard. This gives all sorts of advanced features.

The inside of the cabinet is sealed up. I mean sealed up. All the openings for any moving parts are covered by retractable belts that move with the axis. You can't see any moving parts from the inside of the machine. You can raise the table, look under it, it's empty. Not a wire, belt, pulley, or anything. It's empty and sealed. So not much chance of things getting dirty, I don't guess.

Here's a couple photos of it. I'll put up some videos when get a chance.

We did get the air assist which is AWESOME. Finally someone gets it. I mean REALLY gets it. The compressor is INSIDE the side panel of the machine. When it runs, you can't hear it. You can put your ear on the machine, next to the compressor and you can get a faint sound, but if you are inches away, you'll never know the compressor is running. HOORAY, no external compressor needed!

Any questions, just ask and I'll take photos or figure it out if I can. We've owned all 3 of the big names now, Epilog, Universal, and Trotec. I hope I can give a fair, objective opinion about them in order to help people in their buying decisions. I'll say this up front. Our Universal is a work horse and has been for several years. It just works.

You can see the Universal behind it in the first photo. The table is magnetic stainless, so you can use magnets to hold light stuff down! Nice.

215936215933215935215937

Keith Outten
12-15-2011, 10:42 PM
Steve,

Your new Trotec is a beauty, can't wait to get mine. I don't have a delivery date yet but I know I'm in the que so it won't be long.
The air assist sounds great, I wonder why all laser manufacturers don't offer this feature.
Keep it coming, I have a serious interest in this one :)
.

Paul Phillips
12-15-2011, 10:49 PM
Scott, wow what a beautiful machine, congratulations on your new purchase, I'm totally jealous! Would love to have one, I'm sure you'll be happy with it for years to come, please keep us updated.
Happy Holidays,
Paul

Dee Gallo
12-15-2011, 10:52 PM
Great review so far, Steve - I'm intrigued by the Speedy, as much as I love my Epilogs. It might be my next buy. Funny you mentioned the exhaust, my first most ancient Epilog had an internal exhaust system which was silent... very nice! And the bed moved, not the head... not as nice in some ways.

Your new Ferrari is a beauty. Drive carefully!

cheers, dee

matthew knott
12-16-2011, 6:48 AM
That IS a nice bit of kit you have there!! If you dont mind me asking whats the cost on something like that?

Mike Null
12-16-2011, 6:59 AM
Steve

When I bought my Trotec 6 years ago the air assist was part of the package as was the Expert version of the software. Your air assist is adjustable but as you say, it's so quiet you can't hear it. Even with my blower on (inline) I can stand next to the machine and carry on a telephone conversation.

Since mine is in the basement I had to remove the sliding doors to get it in and had to do a bit of interior remodeling to make space but it's the single best equipment purchase I've ever made.

I'll look forward to your updates.

Dan Hintz
12-16-2011, 8:13 AM
So it seems the extra cost of the Trotec is worth it... and not just for the extra speed.

Michael Hunter
12-16-2011, 8:53 AM
What extra cost?

A few months ago, the Trotec was noticeably cheaper than the nearest equivalent Epilog here in the UK.

Scott Shepherd
12-16-2011, 10:06 AM
I won't get into pricing, but I can say that my impression over the years has always been that Trotec is the most expensive machine out there, and for good reason. I can honestly say that I was 100% wrong. The problem we had with Trotec early on is that the rep never called back. So we went with other machines. This time, we found a rep that is interested in selling machines and supporting customers. The difference was night and day. One, we never got called back from, this one called often to check in and see if he could do anything for us. He even tried to match up clients to us for a job. I'll gladly post his contact information once I talk to him and get his permission.

If you've priced lasers in the last year, you know the pricing has dropped a lot. Trotec appears to be no exception to that.

They had "show specials" at all the shows this year and they were excellent. I will also say that we paid about the same for 75W today as we did for a 45W Universal 3-4 years ago. So the pricing has really come down.

My first impressions of the job control are a little overwhelming. I started with an Epilog,where you click print, it sends the job over, you hit start, and it runs, to the Universal with Job Control, that kept all the jobs and settings stored, if you wanted it to, and the ability to fine tune things far beyond the Epilog. I thought the Universal Job Control was advanced and maybe more "engineery" feeling. Now I look at the Trotec Job Control and my first impression is that it's more advanced than the Universal in some ways. It's a serious driver and it works different than anything I've seen yet. I think you can "do" basic is you want, but we have specific needs that always require the advanced sides of all the drivers we've used so far.

Trotec steps more into what engravers call "Plates". With the Epilog and Universal, neither talk about "plates" or "plate sizes", where the Trotec does talk in that language. We have a Xenetech rotary that uses "plates" in the software terminology. So that's not unfamiliar to me, but it's very different than the way the Epilog and Universal work. There's a good reason for it and I know the reason, but I'd like to explain it better when I have some real examples I can show that demonstrate how and why it works.

Larry Bratton
12-16-2011, 11:00 AM
Green with envy! Congratulations!

Mike Null
12-16-2011, 11:18 AM
Pricing on Trotec today is about 20% less than I paid 6 years ago but six years ago ULS was higher than Trotec at least on their quote to me.

matthew knott
12-16-2011, 12:43 PM
I know no ones wants to put what they paid for a laser but can someone give a ball park figure for something like this machine from trotech, if you ask for a price for a delaer one of two thinks happens, they never get back or they hastle you forever, this is just a curious how much approx !!

Michael Hunter
12-16-2011, 1:57 PM
Matthew

Speak to Bryan Jater at Trotec UK. Very nice man. I'm sure that he would negotiate you a good deal.

Michael Kowalczyk
12-16-2011, 2:29 PM
Hey Scott,
Welcome aboard. Boy 2 Trotec purchases posted with in a week. Kinda Bitter/Sweat thoughts. Bitter because now you also know the difference a Trotec can make on your bottom line. Sweat because the "TUG" Trotec User's Group is growing quickly here on the forum and us longtime users will have others to talk to that will be on the same wave length (pun intended).

Job Control will be your best friend. F8 and the return arrow on your keypad will get a lot of use as you get familiar with using the plates with jig/fixtures and one touch repeat runs.

Not sure if your other lasers have it but the Job Time estimator is an AWESOME TIME SAVER. I use it regularly and it means no more dry runs to get a quote out.

What lens did you get? I have a 1.5", 2", & a 4". The 1.5" one I got by accident (another story someday:eek:) but still had to pay for it and glad I did. On some thin material it shortened time by 20% or more. So it is a great addition to my plethora of tools.

Look forward to reading this post as you progress.

Chuck Stone
12-16-2011, 3:10 PM
Hey Scott,
Welcome aboard. Boy 2 Trotec purchases posted with in a week. Kinda Bitter/Sweat thoughts. Bitter because now you also know the difference a Trotec can make on your bottom line. Sweat because the "TUG" Trotec User's Group is growing quickly here on the forum and us longtime users will have others to talk to that will be on the same wave length (pun intended).

I'd love to be on the same wavelength .. but I asked Trotec if they'd do an even swap on a
Speedy 300 flexx 60/50W for an aging 30w CGG Mercury.. I haven't heard back

(sigh)

Keith Outten
12-16-2011, 9:05 PM
Prices on Trotec machines vary depending on the options you select which is expected. The price you will pay these days will not be what you expect :)

When you call them ask for a SawMill Creek Discount, trust me.

If the person you talk to doesn't know about our relationship with Trotec PM me and I will give you the name of someone who does and can put one in your shop :)
.

Scott Shepherd
12-17-2011, 8:53 PM
Okay, finally a few minutes to discuss this thing a little more....

The Job Control uses a "plate" system which allows for some awesome stuff. Essentially, the table is 28 3/4" x 17" (something like that, it's odd numbers), so you have that space to work with. When you create your files in Corel (or whatever), you can create the document size the same size as your work. If you have a 2" x 10" item, just make the document size 2" x 10", put your art work in there, when you select print, you put in that size. So you'd enter 2" x 10", select your material, and hit "print".

That takes you to the Job Control software, where you're essentially looking at the machine table. On one side is a list of files (or jobs). You drag the job from the list onto the "Plate". You can position it anywhere on the plate you want. If you want the top left corner, that's fine. If you have a fixture and you want it in a certain place, that's fine too. You can "create a marker" or "markers" all over the table. When you do, it will give you an option to put in specific dimensions if you wish. So let's assume you have a job that the items vary in content, but are all the same size, and you have a number of files. If you have a fixture that has them every 2", then you can create "markers" at those 2" points. So you'll have a screen that basically has a bunch of hash marks on it, where each corner would be of each item. Then, you can drag a job over and hold it close to a marker and it'll snap that job into the marker location. So if you had 20 jobs, all different, you could drag 20 files onto the "plate" and put them all in their own location, all as easy as dragging and dropping. It's already got me totally rethinking how I work.

For me, let's say I have 3 jobs, all from the same material, but all different customers, or different jobs. Currently, I'd either run them one at a time or I'd open all 3 Corel files, then I'd cut and paste 2 of them into the 3rd file, send it over, and then delete the 2 off the 3rd file. It's kind of a pain, but something I do all the time. Fast forward to the Trotec and you could send all 3 jobs over, independently, and then just drag and drop the files onto the material where you want them. No need for all that other work.

The Job Control software also appears to have a lot of the Rowmark materials setup in there. It even calls them by name "LaserMark", etc. So that was a nice surprise.

There are s few things I'm not thrilled about with the Job Control, which I'll go into later. None are show stoppers, but just things I'm used to that work well, that are missing, while there are other things I've never had that are very useful. Win some, lose some, I guess.

The Job Control also has the built in estimator, and it has a build in vector sorter. You can right click on a file while listed (not active), and you can have the program sort all the vector moves. It has basic and advanced options, and so far, I've only used the basic version and it's worked well. It's nice to have that built in as a feature. Some times you need it, some times it's not worth it. When you let it sort the file, it actually creates a new file and adds "sorted" to the end of it, so you still have the original, plus the new one.

I've also filmed a couple of things. Forgive me for the poor quality of this clip. First video with new camera, first video with new computer, first video with new machine :) I'll get better, I promise!

Just a clip showing how the lens comes out and goes back in, a look at the way the inside is covered, then I pull the side panel off and show the motion system and the compressor.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrrXxzk84QE&context=C3f14aaeADOEgsToPDskKs-Hq4-eMTy3lxkljUu8gx

Andrea Weissenseel
12-19-2011, 3:55 AM
That's what I call a nice Christmas present :D Your Speedy is truly a beauty. I also like it very much, that rails, belts etc. are covered up neatly (especially when I look at mine after I did rubber stamps). For my next machine I wouldn't know at the moment which I I'd go for - either a Trotec or a SEI Laser.

Keith Outten
12-19-2011, 7:33 AM
Steve,

Are you using a dust collector for your exhaust fan?
.

Scott Shepherd
12-19-2011, 8:23 AM
Just the standard Penn State blower everyone uses.

Rodne Gold
12-19-2011, 9:47 AM
Congrats on your purchase Scott
It looks like a very beautiful machine
May you have many years of joy with your new "child" :)

Dan Hintz
12-19-2011, 12:41 PM
Looks like it's time I visited your shop again (not to mention picking up my flame toy) :D

Scott Shepherd
12-19-2011, 7:03 PM
Come on by Dan! And anyone else that wants to see this, or that wants to see a Universal in action inches from the Trotec.

Of course the fun was sidetracked sharply when I had to start from scratch with my material settings for some things we do. The Job Control has core settings, but moving from 45W to 75W and how each of them use completely different speed percentages is something I'm going to have to work through.

Jiten Patel
12-20-2011, 4:23 AM
Nice thread - got to love Trotec hey - not that I have brand loyalty. I have used the Speed 300 on quite a few occasions and it is a beast - I do want one but the price tag is a little bonkers when you compare to Rodne's machines - hmmm decisions!!!Look forward to reading more about your experiences with the beast!

Andrew Fleming
12-20-2011, 5:14 AM
The Trotec looks a great machine, we are looking at purchasing one now, but one question hopefully someone can answer, what thickness can you gut in acrylic with the 60w laser?, would it do 20mm?

Scott Shepherd
12-20-2011, 8:19 AM
I don't have any acrylic that thick, but I'd guess you'd be pushing the limits on 60W for that. I'll cut some 12mm in the next few days and post it.

Matt Bach
12-23-2011, 9:34 PM
I've attached a photo of one of the 3/4" acrylic awards I make with my speedy 300 60 watt. The 3/4" thick base is also laser cut. It can cut through 1" acrylic but the edges can get a little jagged. Iv'e had my trotec for almost 7 years and I haven't had any breakdowns.

Scott Shepherd
12-24-2011, 10:13 AM
Here's a recent job I did with the machine. I'm not 100% happy with it, but that's my fault, not the machines :) The woman's face was almost solid white, so I had to work with that to get it so it wasn't just totally blown out. And when the customer came to get it, he saw the sample I did that was completely blown out and he liked that better, go figure :)

Processed in Photoshop, sent to the machine. It's about 13 1/2" wide on the actual engraving, so it's a fairly large piece. Took about 8 minutes to engrave. Yes, 8 minutes. Finally I feel like I can do granite or marble photos and actually make some money.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8voX7ldqY3I

Keith Outten
12-24-2011, 12:18 PM
Geez, I'm dying here :)

Thirteen inch wide photo engraved in eight minutes. I spent 16 minutes each on my last group of door signs with my Epilog, I felt like I was in the stone age.
The last time i engraved a photo on black marble it took an hour, thats why I stopped engraving marble.

4 weeks to go before i get my new Trotec..........
.

Andrew Mammoliti
12-24-2011, 11:20 PM
Hi Scott, no more 1 touch? Did you rub some white paint in there? Also how much did you sell that pc for? Looks like the size is 16" x 16"

Scott Shepherd
12-26-2011, 8:26 AM
Hi Scott, no more 1 touch? Did you rub some white paint in there? Also how much did you sell that pc for? Looks like the size is 16" x 16"

1-touch wouldn't process it, said the image was too large. I didn't rub paint in it, that's directly off the laser. The piece of granite was 17 1/5" x 14 1/2", if I recall correctly. The customer supplied the material. I'd rather not publicly post the price, but I'll say this is probably the first photograph I've done and been profitable on. The customer also called and said they wanted another one and they'd be bringing me another piece of material soon.

The machine is still overwhelming me mainly because of the work flow. There are things I've done different on the ULS for years and now moving over to this work flow has been a challenge. Not because it's hard, but just because it's different. Different for a good reason too. The differences allow for a completely different way to do work, which I'm excited about, and also struggling with, breaking my old habits.

donald bugansky
12-26-2011, 2:28 PM
Scott,

Can you share the settings you used for the 3/4" acrylic? I've got a 75 watt and I'd like to compare.

Thx - Bugs

Scott Shepherd
12-26-2011, 8:42 PM
Bugs, that was Matt that was cutting the 3/4" acrylic. I don't have anything that thick so I haven't cut it yet. Next time I'm in my plastic suppliers place, I'll see if I can pick up a scrap piece to see if it'll cut it.

Scott Shepherd
02-04-2012, 9:27 PM
It's been about 7 weeks now and the machine had gotten a good workout. It's run 7 days a week, 12 hours a day for the last month.

Overall, I'm very happy with the machine. It's hard to believe how fast it is. When I can get a few minutes, I'm going to create a video demonstrating how fast it is compared to our Universal. I can honestly say I've never seen a machine this fast before, and I'm not referring to the fact it's 75W. I'm referring to just how fast it moves. It will vector mark like nothing I've seen on the market. I think I'll do the video of a laser buzz item to show just how fast it is.

I was falling behind this week and decided to set the same job up on the Universal. Granted, there is a big power difference, but it took less than 1/2 the time.

I have zero complaints about the machine itself. I can say that I'm still struggling with the driver. I actually like the Universal driver better. I'd love to have the Universal driver running the Trotec.

On the Universal, in Corel, my page size matches my table (24" x 18"). If I send a job over that's 2" x 2", then I can move that 2" x 2" job all over the table, in the job control software. In essence, even though the page size in corel is 24" x 18", it knows the graphic is 2" x 2" and allows me to manipulate it as such. On the Trotec, if I have a Corel page size of 24" x 17" (different Y-Axis travel), and my graphic is 2" x 2", and I send it over, it goes over as the whole page. So I can't move that item at all because it thinks the entire job is 24" x 17". What they want you to do is send the job over as 2" x 2", then you can move it all around. What that means from a work flow basis is that you have to change the the dimensions in the print driver EVERY time you send a job over. Frankly, it stinks. Of course, I could be missing some setting that automatically sets it.

I find a number of buggy items in the driver. Most that can be worked around fairly easily. For instance, if you send a page over that matches the table size, and you change the engraving direction from top to bottom, it automatically changes the table size to .002" less than the max table size, so when you try and put the next job on the table, it gives an error and says there is no more room on the table. You can open the settings and change it back, and then you're back in business. It only does that when you change engraving direction.

But none of the issues are what I'd call serious. All of them are in the minor irritants category, nothing that causes any production issues.

The "material database" is confusing to say the least. It's very easy to overwrite a solid, good setting you use all the time. It need some work there, for sure. Also, you can't change settings on the fly, unless the color is red or black, which seems really strange to me. That's the stuff that makes me want my Universal driver, which you can change any thing, any color, any time, on the fly.

One more thing I don't quite understand, is that it scans the entire job before it starts moving. That's where the problems arise when sending jobs over that are full page. If you have a sheet the same size as the table and it's all vector cutting, it can take 40 seconds or so from the time you hit start to the time the machine actually starts cutting, as it scans the page. I don't get that. Logically, that doesn't work well. Who wants to wait 40 seconds for a job to start once you hit the start button? Again, it could be my computer, and it could be something I'm not doing right. Maybe someone more experienced will read this and tell me how to resolve that issue.

However, if the job has rastering and vectoring, the engraving starts when the "scan" hits the rastering as the scan goes down the page. So it normally starts in just a few seconds. You'll only have time issues when you have a table full of vector cutting only.

That all might sound negative, but I'm actually coming at it from the position of someone that's owned 3 lasers now. I could do the same for all 3 lasers, so this isn't meant to trash the Trotec, but only point out the few minor things it needs to push it from a 9 to a 10 from the user standpoint.

I love the machine. It's just incredible. It really screams and it's pretty easy to use. I can't wait until this job is over so I can get some videos up. I think pictures are worth 1000 words in this case.

Mike Null
02-05-2012, 6:54 AM
Steve

I think you can do everything you want to do with Job Control. Call me and I'll point you in the right direction.

On the changing settings on the fly--I don't know what you mean--you can change all settings before or after you run a job without resending the job. You do that from within job control.

As far as it scanning the entire page--you simply need to change your setting--that would waste a lot of time especially if you sent a small job over on a full size table plate. In Corel choose "selection" and "minimize to job size after you've selected the art to be engraved. That will eliminate the full table scan.

It also allows you to move the job anyplace on the table. Using this feature in combination with the red dot pointer you can start a job with precision where ever you want.

In my view this is a better driver than Universal but the last time I used Universal was several years ago.

Scott Shepherd
02-05-2012, 8:35 AM
Mike, thanks for the help. When I say change the settings on the fly, I mean when the machine is running. I often cut 100's and 100's of parts from a sheet, vector cutting them. I use different colors in the file to control how I want things to burn (don't burn the outside and have it fall out before it burns the inside, etc.). If I use red and green for that, and the machine starts cutting and I immediately feel like I can speed it up or slow it down, I can't, unless it's on the red. You can change things while the machine is running, but only for red and black. Why give me a palette with all those colors I can use and then only allow me to change 2 of them while it's running? When faced with new materials on a weekly basis, it's nice to "tweak" the job as it's running, but I can't unless I use those 2 colors, which causes me issues all over the place on other things with different colors.

Here's a real example- I used 3 colors to engrave some text. 3 colors because the text was at the extreme left and right, and then in the center. The material was hard so the speed was slow. I wanted to raster those 3 colors individually. I used black, blue, and green. As soon as I started with the black, I saw it could be sped up some. I could do that with the black, while it's running, but now I have no way to change the blue and green. On the Universal, I can change any color setting any time, while it's running. I can even change colors that haven't run yet.

On the job size, I can't send a smaller job over, the job takes the whole sheet. So it just sits there and scans for 40 seconds. I just think someone really missed the mark with their logic when they thought it was okay to have a machine sit for 40 seconds after you hit the start button. As I mentioned, it could be my mistake, but I've heard that same complaint from other owners. I will look for the setting in corel for the smaller jobs and see if I can get that working better. Last thing I want to have to do is input the page size into the driver every time I send a job over. With the Universal, my page size in corel never changes. It's always my table size. With the Trotec, they appear to never want you to ever send a file over that has the page size the same size as the corel workspace.

Keeping in mine, I have more files than I can count. Probably well over 20,000 files. All created with the corel workspace at the same size as the table. So if I move a job over to the Trotec, I have to now resize the page and save a second file for the same job (i.e. Job1.cdr, Job1_Trotec.cdr), which I really really really do not want to do for the reason of having to keep up with revisions.

Dan Hintz
02-05-2012, 9:46 AM
At least you're able to work with a machine at all, Steve. If you remember from years past, Trotec was in my original search plan, along with ULS and Epilog. I had to drop Trotec from the running because the rep failed to get me any of the promised information.

So fast forward to 2012. We have a new rep, and a few of you guys are able to get a machine in shop... things are different, right? Well, not for me! After a few emails back and forth, a long phone call, and so on I'm thinking things really have changed. The last thing I heard from the rep was over 2 weeks ago... not a peep since.

I know you only have to deal with a rep until the machine gets to you, but it's extremely difficult to recommend a machine that you can't get a hold of, and difficult to recommend a company as a whole that can't seem to find people capable of representing their products.

YMMV...

Scott Shepherd
02-05-2012, 10:24 AM
Dan, I understand. I have repeatedly, and I mean REPEATEDLY pointed them to threads like this where people can't get Trotec sales people to call back. Your case isn't an isolated case by any means. You can probably find 20-30 threads on this forum where people said the same thing. Every time I bring it up, I'm told that they talk about it in sales meetings or conference calls, or something. I've been pointing it out to them for about 8 months now. Still nothing appears to change.

The show schedule will fire up here shortly and I'm sure they'll be looking to offer some show specials.

I've had 2 or 3 people contact me, telling me the same story you have, so who knows?

If I had to drive to their factory and make a deal with the President of the company, I'd do it to have this machine. It literally is THAT fast of a machine and worth any sales hassle you might have to deal with. No matter how frustrating that might be, the end goal is the machine on my floor making product. Their service is 100% different than their sales reputation. I've called a number of times and emailed a number of times, asking questions on how to do things. Every time I have called, they actually answered the phone or called me right back, and every time I emailed, I have gotten a prompt response. I'm very happy with their service so far, so it's just that one piece of the puzzle that seems to have the reputation that they do.

Michael Kowalczyk
02-06-2012, 4:36 PM
Scott,
Just a thought on your 40 second scan issue, make sure you DO NOT HAVE "engrave" checked for the black or red. Engrave will always scan to see if it has anything to do before it moves onto the next color. There is also a place in the options for high quality engraving if checked will raster the total page even if there is no engraving there, so make sure it is not checked if you do not need it on.

I have never used a Universal or Epilog so I don't favor or dislike their drivers but I do like the control you have with the Trtoec print driver and the options you have while it is in the Que. Try not to keep too many jobs in the que otherwise it takes forever to load. I have asked for them to change that using a sub folder to store the not so often jobs as opposed to archiving them, which isn't that bad, but it sure would speed things up. Also asked for a key touch search. If you want a job that begins with "P", just select the job que and the press "p" and it will narrow it down faster than scrolling through it like many other lists in a window.

Your page issue is and should not be an issue or a concern. When you hit "cntrl P" <in CDR, and then select the "properties" button, there is an option there if you want to use the predefined page or from CDR or user defined. I always use the User defined one because it allows me to see how much time it takes to do 1 at a time and then can add multiples with a simple right click later and if I need to have it nested I can still do it. It works for me.

The help menu and other PDFs that you can get are not the most user friendly since they originate in Austria and then are translated to English. I mentioned this in the very beginning but was told that Austria likes to keep control.

I suggest you go through EVERY menu items and look through the help PDFs at the same time. It is amazing sometimes what you will find out. It took me til the 3rd or 4th year before I found out about the "F8" keys function. Now I use it all the time.

Just a suggestion but before you post that you don't like (no matter how minuscule or minor it is) how something works or it doesn't do this or that, ask your rep or post it here, Mike Null & I or several other Trotec owners/users might have the answer or Keith might even pass us all by having 2 of them now.

Scott Shepherd
02-06-2012, 8:26 PM
Michael, a conversation with Mike Null this morning got me straight on the page size thing, so I think we're all good to go on there and I'm happy with the resolution.


I have never used a Universal or Epilog so I don't favor or dislike their drivers but I do like the control you have with the Trtoec print driver and the options you have while it is in the Que. Try not to keep too many jobs in the que otherwise it takes forever to load. I have asked for them to change that using a sub folder to store the not so often jobs as opposed to archiving them, which isn't that bad, but it sure would speed things up. Also asked for a key touch search. If you want a job that begins with "P", just select the job que and the press "p" and it will narrow it down faster than scrolling through it like many other lists in a window.

I agree, I wish they would change the way the sort works. I'd love to see it sort by last job in, first in the que. I have 2000 jobs in the Universal que, and I can go back to any job and see the settings, the time/day it was run, etc. It does a VERY good job at keeping things easy to find, but it also lacks a search. Hopefully we can all work together to get some tweaks done to that area.



The help menu and other PDFs that you can get are not the most user friendly since they originate in Austria and then are translated to English. I mentioned this in the very beginning but was told that Austria likes to keep control.

I have 2 copies of the manual printed and I read them often, believe it or not. I have one copy at work and one at home, so I often pick it up and go through it.


Just a suggestion but before you post that you don't like (no matter how minuscule or minor it is) how something works or it doesn't do this or that, ask your rep or post it here, Mike Null & I or several other Trotec owners/users might have the answer or Keith might even pass us all by having 2 of them now.

I did do just that. I posted what I posted, not to call anyone out or trash anything. I actually posted it to chronicle my experiences, from sitting on the dock to years later, much as I have in the Universal PLS4.60 thread I started years ago. Just for the record, I did ask my sales rep about everything I have listed. I have also talked to tech support about several of the issues. So this wasn't the first place I came to bring them up. Tech support are the ones that told me you could only change 2 colors on the fly, not the full palette. So please don't take anything I post about this machine as trashing it. I wouldn't trash it publicly before some serious frustration on not fixing some issue, which I haven't experienced. I've experienced the machine to be outstanding, rocket fast, and I'm just sharing my experiences as I learn the machine, in hopes to help others who might go through the same thing.

I appreciate the help and suggestions, I'm open for advice from all Trotec owners in case I'm doing something wrong, which is far more possible than there being an issue with the machine! I'll probably post dozens more things that I can't figure out, in hopes that some of your experienced Trotec users can put me on the right path.

Keith Outten
02-06-2012, 9:16 PM
I have so much to learn at this point about Trotec machines I am hesitant to even jump into this conversation. I seem to have a grip on the basics which only means I can make the machine engrave but I doubt I am anywhere near being efficient.

I have been reading the PDF files though, looking for any details that will be helpful.

Michael, what is the "F8" keys function?
.

Keith Outten
02-06-2012, 9:50 PM
At least you're able to work with a machine at all, Steve. If you remember from years past, Trotec was in my original search plan, along with ULS and Epilog. I had to drop Trotec from the running because the rep failed to get me any of the promised information.

So fast forward to 2012. We have a new rep, and a few of you guys are able to get a machine in shop... things are different, right? Well, not for me! After a few emails back and forth, a long phone call, and so on I'm thinking things really have changed. The last thing I heard from the rep was over 2 weeks ago... not a peep since.

I know you only have to deal with a rep until the machine gets to you, but it's extremely difficult to recommend a machine that you can't get a hold of, and difficult to recommend a company as a whole that can't seem to find people capable of representing their products.

YMMV...

Dan,

Don't ever let a sales rep get in the way of a deal that you want to make. I gave you Amie's phone number, call her again and tell her you want to buy a Trotec laser.
Trotec owners recommend their machines not their sales people :)

There are three kinds of people in this world:
- People who make things happen.
- People who watch things happen.
- People who don't have a clue what the heck is happening.
Like it or not you have to put yourself in one of these categories.
.

Scott Shepherd
02-06-2012, 10:38 PM
Great point Keith. I am constantly stunned when people say they gave up on a machine because their rep didn't do this or that. I stand by my comments. You should pick the machine that fits your needs the best and then make that happen. Why settle with #2,#3, or #4 for YOUR business just because someone wouldn't call you back. Pick up the phone and call them. They don't answer? Call the main office. I can't fathom the thought of allowing a sales rep's actions decide my business needs based on their actions.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, we pick the machine that works the best for us and our needs and we worked through all the stuff needed to get that machine on our floor.

If I had to buy a laser tomorrow, without question, it would be a Trotec. If I can just get a free few minutes, I'll post a video that will show just what we're talking about when it comes to speed. Honestly, all the words in a post won't mean anything when you see the video I'll post in the days to come.

Dan Hintz
02-07-2012, 6:01 AM
I gave you Amie's phone number, call her again and tell her you want to buy a Trotec laser.
There was some progress yesterday, and there will (hopefully) be more progress later on this week. I'll let you guys know what happens in the coming weeks...

Keith Outten
02-07-2012, 7:49 AM
Great news Dan!

I agree with Steve about the speed of Trotec lasers, they are fast and deliver stunning quality at the same time. The engineering behind the machine impresses me most though because they are built so well with attention to detail that will make a difference over the long haul. The emphasis that Trotec puts on keeping the working parts clean clearly will pay off in big dividends over the life of the machine which should translate to an increase in reliability as well.

It seems that each owner has their favorite feature, collectively it adds up to a machine you can't help but enjoy operating. My first impression over the last few weeks has been more than favorable concerning the overall quality of the machine. I just made the trip from a nine year old machine that was basically an antique to a new machine that incorporates all the new technology in the business. Laser manufacturers have learned a lot about design and function over the years and I can't help being impressed by the difference in quality. The high-end manufacturers have leaped ahead of their competitors offering better drivers and software along with major improvements in the mechanical aspects of their machines.

Since we started this laser forum I have listened to owners comments about the machines they operate and I can tell you that the information collected in this forum contains details concerning every mainstream machine and just about every manufacturer. Although it can take some time to wade through the data here it is more then worth the investment simply because you can easily put together a list of which machine not to purchase and definitely which manufacturers to run away from. Trotec rates nothing but high scores here in every category and from people in almost every area of the industry.

When we were shopping for a new laser engraver for the sign shop at CNU five years ago I took some advise from someone who is a big name in the industry and I have regretted my decision to purchase a Xenetech XLT1325 since the day it was delivered. My opinion at this point in time is that I prefer to listen to those who spend their hard earned money on new machines that have owned them for a reasonable period of time. I place no value in anything a salesman has to say and I choose to ignore any and all data that I read in any publication. There are professional engravers here that are often a very quiet group who know the deal and have been around the horn so to speak. These people know what a reliable machine is and who builds them. This time I made the right decision and I purchased two new machines that I believe will benefit my sign business and the shop at CNU for a long time.
.

Mike Null
02-07-2012, 11:33 AM
One thing that this thread points out is that Trotec doesn't offer a users manual in keeping with the quality and performance of their machine. I yelled long and hard about this when I bought my machine but to no avail. However, with the support of techs and other owners I have found all the things I need to operate the equipment.

Mine is nearing 7 years old now and still works like new with no down time or repair parts needed.

A word to the wise--when installing updates be sure you have a back up of your job history saved someplace. On the last update mine was wiped out. Not a big deal as I work from a list of settings in Job Control.

Dan Hintz
02-07-2012, 11:42 AM
Do they only have printed copies, or do electronic versions exist? If there are e-copies, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one to thumb through and compare notes...

Michael Kowalczyk
02-07-2012, 12:29 PM
"F8" is your friend if you want to drop a marker or several down on your plate. It will allow you to place a job anywhere on the table. I started using it for pens. I made a jig with 2" on center valleys and since some pens are short and others are long, I can use it to mark the centers and drop a job on it. you can save the plate and recall it when you want. Zoom in to get accurate placement. It has "snap to" associated with it and I think you can turn them off but the only thing, IMHO, it is missing is being able to snap center left or center right on the cross hair. Right now it will snap center, and the 4 corners. Center left and center right would allow you to mark the end of an object and your spacing would be defined in your job instead of where it is placed. for instance if you wanted to have an engraving start 1/8" from the edge and still be centered with the axis instead of centered by placement, it is extremely handy for me.

it is also great for alignment of movable jigs. I have one that has 20 parts, all the same size and we have three of them that we use spray Cermark on the parts with and keep them rotating. Since the engraving space is only 3/4" high they need to be repositioned fairly accurate or it will run off the part. So by having all the parts with their own marker allows me to do a 3 point scan by moving the red dot pointer from bottom right to middle left then up to top right. If the red dot looks like it is centered on all 3 points its a go, if not then with a minor adjustment it can be quickly aligned. on certain jobs I use it extensively but i can go days without using it also.

Hope this helps a bit and ...

Michael Kowalczyk
02-07-2012, 12:44 PM
Hey Dan,
I have mine in PDF format and there is one that is linked in the "Help" menu. Several versions from installing the laser, using job control, using the laser, a service manual that is machine specific, and I have some maintenance ones also. Now remember mine is from 2003 originally and the 300 has replaced my Speedy II. Dare I say ask your sales rep to send you some, so you have the up to date ones and ones that are pertinent to the ones you are looking at. just a thought;)

Michael Kowalczyk
02-07-2012, 12:59 PM
Hey Scott,
My suggestion was just to just use a I don't understand instead of I don't like. I am sure that there are some features that each of the manufacturers have that are unique and very useful but if they all had the same features, they would no longer be unique. Sometimes frustration can be solved with one call to Tech support or a post here or even a long night reading the owner's manual and testing every right click and menu option. Just remember where you started because one wrong click can change something and it may be even harder to figure out what you did that caused the change. Some of the major settings are password protected but it is good to dig and see where all the options lead you.

I look forward to reading your post as you learn more about the awesome potential you have added to your shop.

Scott Shepherd
02-15-2012, 8:28 PM
Here's a video trying to show just how fast this machine is. I'll repeat one comment many times on this thread. I LOVE my Universal laser. It's a workhorse of a machine. I mean it's a workhorse. One thing I can always count on, is turning that machine on, and having it just make quality products. Please don't take videos like this as a knock on the Universal. They aren't, by any means.

I did this test of some random file to show the speed difference. I vector marked because the power doesn't factor in. If I had cut something out, it wouldn't have been fair, since it's a 45W machine versus a 75W machine. So this is just a comparison between the two. It's a SUBSTANTIAL difference in run times.

I hope this helps show what people like Mike, Keith, and myself are talking about when we say just how stunning this machine is.

It might go faster, I don't know. I set the speed to 2% on the Trotec and 40% on the Universal. Maybe I'll try 3% on the Trotec :)

I have one error- in one part I said 2:15 seconds and in another place 2:20 seconds. My mistake. I'll fix it when I get some time. Sorry!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUHY5Km8Ekk

Ian Franks
02-16-2012, 2:32 AM
Scott
Thanks for sharing that is impressive with the speed of the Trotec. Was the quality the same for both machines?

Keith Outten
02-16-2012, 5:43 AM
Over the last couple weeks I have noticed that the Trotec machines have been able to provide a more consistent engraving depth than I have seen with any other laser. In the past I thought that a minor variance in depth was due to a variation in material hardness but this has not been the case with any Corian signs I have been engraving with either Trotec machine. I have been using a digital caliper to check the engraving depth more often that I normally do just to confirm the performance of the Trotec's, both are providing a more constant depth than our Xenetech at CNU or my old Epilog. After engraving about 200 door signs I am still measuring a perfect 0.034" depth on every sign blank.

The time we have to dedicate to cleanup at the end of the day has also been reduced over any other laser engraver we have used. The Trotec design keeps the dust away from components that are normally difficult to clean, this allows me to run the machine a little longer before we stop engraving and start our shop cleanup at the end of the day. The few extra signs we produce each day will add up to a significant number at the end of the month.
.

Mike Null
02-16-2012, 6:10 AM
Keith

I was on their web site yesterday and noticed a new machine that would be perfect for you. It's a Speedy 400 with a 39" x 24" bed and a pass through feature. I think you should be talking to them right away about this machine and I'll take yours off your hands for a fair discount since it's just another used machine.

Scott Shepherd
02-16-2012, 8:14 AM
Scott
Thanks for sharing that is impressive with the speed of the Trotec. Was the quality the same for both machines?

Yes, the quality is the same on both machines.

john banks
02-16-2012, 8:35 AM
Steve, nice one, it looks really fast. Can you post the file so I can try it on my Chinese machine (something I can import in Corel)? I want to see if it takes 10 or 20 minutes or not, but would like to use the same size etc. I think the main thing I notice is that the raster engraving can only go at 400mm/s to have quality as good as my eye can detect. So to cover my 1200x800 bed entirely with a raster engrave with 254 lpi or 0.1mm line spacing would take 400 minutes approx, so we'll try to vector mark where possible.

Was the quality perfect on these items close up? Some of the rope marks looked different to others but that is how the file is?

Scott Shepherd
02-16-2012, 9:58 AM
Sure John, try this. I don't know if the Chinese machines have a programmable Z or not, but in this file, the red is out of focus and the blue is in focus.

I'd be interested to see your results as well.

And yes, the "quality" of the lines looks wiggly, but it's the file, not the laser, as you can see in this file.

Ernie Balch
02-16-2012, 10:37 AM
If you want speed use a galvo based system it would have been done in 10 seconds. Of course their limitations are in area vs resolution tradeoffs but you can't beat them for speed.

john banks
02-16-2012, 11:05 AM
Thanks Steve, will try it. My Z is just a motor with a switch, it isn't programmable in any way, but I'll just run the whole lot at the same focus as it is the speed difference I'm interested in. I want to see what the Ferrari poster on the wall will achieve in comparison.

These Galvo systems sound amazing, but for some applications presumably they need to be slowed down dramatically to get enough power density to cut rather than just mark materials? I noticed for engraving some materials like slate and acrylic that my speed is the limit, but for applications where I run full power and (my relatively low) full speed my slow machine could be mismatched if it went faster as it wouldn't have the power to get the deep engrave I might want on some materials.

Keith Outten
02-16-2012, 12:32 PM
Keith

I was on their web site yesterday and noticed a new machine that would be perfect for you. It's a Speedy 400 with a 39" x 24" bed and a pass through feature. I think you should be talking to them right away about this machine and I'll take yours off your hands for a fair discount since it's just another used machine.

Mike,

Thanks for the kind offer to take my used Trotec off of my hands, what a pal :)

I saw the new Speedy 400 on their web site as well but the larger engraving area isn't really a big deal for door signs. When I purchased the APLazer I was disappointed in the slower speed, at 80 watts the machine had power but not enough speed for door signs.

This time I got the right machine for my shop and I doubt it will be going anywhere anytime soon :)
I just can't find anything to complain about on the Trotec, with 80 watts (85+ watts actually) and plenty of speed it is an incredible machine. I should thank you again for recommending Trotec to me, you done good!
.

Mike Null
02-16-2012, 12:41 PM
Just wanted to present an option for you--in case you wanted to do doors instead of door signs. I am disappointed at your not taking advantage of such an opportunity.:rolleyes:

john banks
02-16-2012, 2:56 PM
Steve, 2:32 at 50mm/s and 10% power. I did it at 90% power but it was cutting rather than marking and leaving some burning. Have a video of the complete run at 90% and started the 10% a short way in. Results look good, but I'm an atrocious photographer.

I used the worktime preview on the machine to establish that with the same file at different requested speeds that it vectors no faster any higher than 50mm/s for quick changes of direction like this. The 90% power version had a requested 400mm/s but took the same 2:32.

I didn't refocus, I just cut one layer after the other.

Will post the youtube links when they are downloaded and processed.

I think your machine may shine at much higher speeds than this?

Scott Shepherd
02-16-2012, 3:03 PM
If you did it that quick, you did it really good John! I'd be happy with that!

Ernie Balch
02-16-2012, 3:41 PM
You are right... using the same power density your cutting speed would be the same. In the example shown lots of time was lost moving between engrave areas. The point to point moves can be instant with a galvo system. Of course raster patterns can written very fast.

ernie

john banks
02-16-2012, 3:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYwLD-4zyrs

Here is the 10% power 50mm/s video, it starts at 38s in to the job. Forgive my poor iPhone video but at least this one is 480p. Ignore the 90% power and 25mm/s shown on the control panel at the end, after the job is complete it reverts to the previous settings for manual control.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0nIBbVFnao&amp;list=UULrMmdxAPYFhBlSJY1iDI2A&amp; index=1&amp;feature=plcp

Here is the 90% power showing the entire job, requested 400mm/s but it only takes 1 second less than the 50mm/s version at 2:31. Forgive the awful 360p where you can hardly see the engraving ;)

Interesting Ernie, my work simulation shows the laser on for only about 1/3 of the job, the rest travelling.

What I really noticed with Steve's video was how quick the travel is between the rope marks, but the text seems a bit slower.

Michael Kowalczyk
02-16-2012, 7:05 PM
Hey Scott,
Does the Universal always jump around like that? Did you optimize the job on the Trotec? On the Universal?