Spray gun information help!!!!!

[Karl Card]

I am wanting to start spraying my wood working items. I would be spraying some flat stuff like kitchen cabinets, pens, anyway very small items and also very large items.

I know know nothing about spray guns accept I hear spraying oil based lacquer is rough on them. I am vowing to use only water based lacquer m ainly because I hear that oil based will be going by the way side a little down the road.

I am thinking I need to buy a small and large but I have no idea what I need to do, what size nozzle etc. Gravity feed vs other.

I do have an air compressor 3.2 hp, 60gl 11 cfm at 40 and 10 cfm at 90.

I also cannot afford to spend money on the very high end units, maybe later when I get deeper into this new project.

I have seeen some people in the past say good things about a kit from Grizzly so if anyone has hands on about that I would appreciate.

Thanks for reading,
Karl

[John A langley]

Karl. I've been spraying cabinets for 15 years. If you are doing this in an attached shop to your house, I would definitely go with a water-born finish. We still use the chemical based lacquers and conversion varnishes. All of our guns are HVLP, one of them is also air- assist. One of them is gravity fed, one is hooked up to a pressure pot. The easiest gun to clean is the gravity fed. 3M Corp makes a liner system for the gravity fed guns. I would start with one of the gravity fed guns. Your idea of buying a cheap one at Grizzley is good to learn the mechanics of spraying. There is also no substitute for a good book and a lot of practice. If you have a Sherman Williams near you, seek out the individual in the store the knows the most about spraying. I found that a lot of the employees in a retail store would like to make you think they know what they are talking about. A couple of things to keep in mind, a cheap gun will not give you the results a good gun will. not knowing the size of your compressor, I don't know if it can keep up. You will want some form of air dryer between your compressor and your gun. And spend the money for a full face respirator. Your eyes can be irritated by the spray too. I'm lucky. I don't know everything about finishing, but I have a sales rep that is very knowledgeable and helps me. You might be lucky enough to find a wholesaler, rather than a retailer, to buy your finishing supplies from. Commercial finishing supplies, in my opinion, are easier to use and better products.

[Larry Fox]

Well, there are a lot of questions nested in your post for sure not all of which I can address. If you are looking at doing large items with a lot of surface area to spray I would very much recommend going with a pressure-pot based system. Couple of real advantages to this system.

1) The finish is stored in the pressure pot as opposed to the gun itself so the gun is much lighter and less bulky. The way that I tend to impress upon those I talk to about the value of this is by telling them to hold a full 1 quart can of paint straight out in front of them for about 5 minutes. It's amazing how quickly you fatigue and start to loose fine control.
2) You can spray with the gun upside down. If you are working on cabinetry this is not to be underestimated. You can't do that with a gravity or syphon feed gun.
3) Depending on the size of the pot you get it will hold much more finish than the alternatives which means fewer refills / interruptions.

Couple of downsides to the system

1) You need to buy a pressure pot. Getting a new 1-gallon pot will set you back a bit but I see them every once in a while on CL for ~$100.
2) The lines hold a surprising amount of finish so you end up possibly wasting a bit more when cleaning.
3) It takes longer to clean it. Not a huge amount of difference but a few more minutes.
4) If you are spraying something small like a pen the setup / teardown on the system will take much longer than the spraying. However, that is where this guy comes in. http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/qualspray.htm#guns Look at the sp-08 gun towards the bottom of the page. Best $37.00 you will spend. You can set it up in about 2 minutes, clean it in another 2 minutes. Great gun. Not the best gun in the world but when it craps out you throw it away and buy another one. I am on my (I believe) second one and got years out of the first one.

As to tip sizes, that is based on what you want to spray. I spray a lot of alcohol shellac and water-based finishes so I chose something that would work reasonably well for both. Sizes also vary among manufacturers, I have a Walcom and the tip size I have in my gun is a 1.2.

If you go with a conversion setup using your compressor you need to sort out some way to deal with the condensation / water in the lines. Typically this is done with a water trap. They can be had pretty cheaply but you will need one. You will also need a regulator. The water trap I have has one so that was a cost savings.

Another option is a turbine based setup. There are many manufacturers out there but I only have experience with Fuji. They make a very nice setup. For pushing some of the heavier bodied finishes like the WB ones I would recommend a 4-stage but you can maybe get away with a 3-stage but you might need to thin some of them.

There are some pretty good resources out there online about it and some videos about technique but your best resource is Jeff Jewitt at Homestead. If you give him a call and talk through your requirements he will give you good advise.

Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss further - happy to share what limited knowledge I have.

BTW: I just read John's post above mine and he gives solid advise. I completely ignored the safety aspects of spraying as I just assume it as a matter of course but John is spot on calling it out.

[Mike Monroe]

I suggest taking this topic to the Project Finishing Forum. Lot of good info and helpful people there.

[Mike Henderson]

If you're just getting started, I'd buy a gravity feed HVLP conversion gun. Pressure pots are great but start with something less expensive. I have a couple of Porter Cable PSH-1s and they work fine. They aren't sold new any more but you can find them new on eBay occasionally. I'm sure there are many other fine conversion guns in the $100 range.

You can adjust a regular gun to do small work so don't buy two guns initially.

Mike

[Van Huskey]

I suggest taking this topic to the Project Finishing Forum. Lot of good info and helpful people there.

+1 and you can read for DAYS about spray rigs!

[Rob Cunningham]

You may want to check out or call Homestead Finishing also. Jeff Jewitt is a great source of info and will steer you in the right direction.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Take a look at Harbor Freight's little 20 oz gravity feed HVLP gun, item #47016. (It will be on sale for $9.99, Jan 13-15, 2012.) I bought a couple based on recommendation over at that other forum. I've been using them to spray oil based paint (both primer and top coat) on a set of hand rails I'm rehabing. Best money I spent, even though I paid $12 for them

[Peter Quinn]

You may want to check out or call Homestead Finishing also. Jeff Jewitt is a great source of info and will steer you in the right direction.

At the very least check out his book on spraying and the accompanying video. Worth a look. I actually have the Grizzly HVLP gun I bought on recommendation from a teacher I was taking a class with. He had a few and liked them for spraying water based dye stains and for misting stuff to pre raise the grain, not so much for clears he said, though you certainly could try it. That might be a good cheap learner to get you going, I doubt it will be the last gun you ever want. Keep in mind that its recommended you use a gun with stainless fluid passages and either stainless cup or plastic cup for spraying WB clear coatings. They tend to be corrosive to cheaper non stainless guns, this can add up to problems over time with the fluid delivery system. Of course the Grizzly guns are so cheap they are almost disposable. I haven't actually used mine. I got an Asturo WB HVLP gun around the same time and am pretty happy with that. It works with a small compressor if needed, though you would have to go a bit slower, it handles WB coatings well, and it lays down a pretty good finish. Around $200 at spray gun world? Jeff Jewitt sell something similar, maybe even better and cheaper, wish I had know that when I bought mine.

I like the pressure pot idea, but for the volume I do, I would put as much finish in the drain as in the hose some days. Thats a lot of money to spend for occasional use and it sort of demands you cover a lot of square feet for it to make sense. Most water based coatings are not super cheap, so the idea of having to flush them out of the hose on a regular basis sounds painful to me! I use pre finished maple ply for interiors and that eliminates 90% of the surface anyway. I have pre finished face frames before attaching to carcasses with pocket screws, works well in a limited size spray area. Plus I don't have to mask off interiors or drag large boxes in and out of my small booth. My point is the spray rig you choose has to match your volume, your budget, your personal speed, your spray area.

For very small items an HVLP touch up gun would probably make more sense than a full size gun.

[fRED mCnEILL]

I used to spray a lot of oil based laquer using a syphon feed Devilbiss gun. It worked well. Then I switch to water based and, on reccomendation from this site, bought a "cheap" LVLP gun to try. Its wonderful. Very LITTLE overspray so you can spray inside boxes and I use about 1/4 the amount of finish I used to.It has paid for itself with the first gallon of laquer I sprayed. It is a gravity feed so easy to clean. Its not for BIG jobs like painting a car but does well for what I want.

[John M. Johnson]

For starting out, you cannot go wrong with the HF #47016. For $20 you can order the gun and 2.0mm tip. Also, Woodcraft has their woodriver gun onsale for $30 and another $12 for the 2.0 mm tip. It also sprays damn well. Even with a small pancake compressor you can get a lot done, you just have to stop every so often.
10190 OPTIONAL 47016 1.7MM NOZZLE SET( 3- 6 A $8.10
10191 OPTIONAL 47016 2.0MM NOZZLE SET( 3- 6 A $8.10
11210 OPTIONAL 47016 1.2MM NOZZLE SET( 3- 6 A $8.10

[Karl Card]

More than enough info to get me going. Thanks a bunch. I wont be spraying production, I just wanted to get out of the aerosol can spraying and I have most all the material to setup a paint booth that vents to the outside. I mainly will be spraying boxes, pens, turned items, and once in awhile large items like my kitchen cabinets that I was supposed to start on a year ago. I am going to check out Sherwin Williams and I would also not mind any other info as to the better brands of wb lacquer and other sprays. I have to admit I loved Deft lacquer in the can, not aerosol, very clear, stayed clear, didnt have that plastic look to it. Looked more like liquid glass. But I want something I can add a catalyst to so I can control the drying time etc.

[Rob Sack]

I have said it before on this forum. I currently own a Sata gun, A Euro gravity feed, and several gravity feed HVLP's from Harbor Freight. The Sata and Euro guns are fantastic and also quite expensive. The Harbor Freight gravity feeds are a tremendous value and the guns I use the most. They are durable, easy to clean, and very consistent. I would suggest that a 2.0 mm tip is overkill unless you are shooting extremely heavily bodied finishes. The standard tip with the Harbor Freight gun works well with conventional lacquer as well as waterborne finishes. Be careful when considering the Harbor Freight guns. They have several HVLP gravity guns. I have only used their most expensive (purple body). Be sure to say away from their HVLP systems that come with the 2 quart pressure pot. I have tried three of these sets, and none of them sprayed well, not to mention the fluid hoses that are supplied with the kit dissolved when spraying conventional lacquers.

[Rob Holcomb]

I bought the Titan Tools Titan 19100 3 Piece HVLP Spray Gun Kit on Amazon. It comes with both a 1.4mm & 1.7mm Needle Nozzle. Originally, I bought it to paint a car which came out very nice and the gun cleans up very nice with lacquer thinner. It's more expensive than the Harborfreight models but both guns work as advertized. I don't do much painting and finishing with spray guns so my experience is limited. Taking your time and adjusting to the proper spray pattern and material thickness is very important. Even a novice like me can do a quality job with these guns.

[Mike Henderson]

I took a class in finishing from a noted expert. In the class, he said you could use lower cost spray guns and get very good results. So I asked him why the name brand equipment, such as Binks, is so expensive. He answered that the name brand equipment will last longer. He commented that spray guns were an old technology and the lower cost guns were just copies of the better known equipment, with lower cost materials - such as regular steel in place of stainless steel and cheaper regulators on conversion HVLP guns. But for homeowner use, they were quite good.

Mike

[fRED mCnEILL]

If you look for a LVLP(low volume, low pressure) you use a lot less paint and don't need near as much pressure. My gun operates at 20 Lbs pressure. In comparing my old Devilbiss gun it had 2 big air holds in the nozzle and 2 smaller air holes. The LVLP gun has 2 big air holes and about 12-14 miniscule air holes. I presume this is to atomize the paint at low pressure. Anyway, not sure I would try and paint a car with it but for smaller stuff like cabinets it works fine. My devilbis will spray a pattern abuot 8 inches wide while the LVLP gun only does about 3 inches. I litterally now use 1/4 to 1/5th the lacquer to do the same jobs as before and you can spray inside areas without your face being covered in overspray.

[Tullie Templet]

It's not a gravity feed but I have had real good luck with this HVLP gun. Sprayed everything from shelac to latex (with different size tips and needles of course) with good results. I even bought the small pressure pot for it and sprayed all of my molding and doors in my new house with oil based paint and had good results. http://www.gleempaint.com/hvcongunnew.html