Scroll Saw for marquetry under $200 - recommendations?

[Chris Hudson42]

If I could afford a DeWalt - I would. But unfortunately, I can't. Recommendations? Experience?
Double-bevel Marquetry use will be totally 3/32 or so hardwood veneers

Shop Fox W1713?

Skil 3335?

Proxxon 37088? (Does the table tilt to 7 degrees on this thing?)

Or any other suggestions? All input greatly appreciated!

Chris

[Rick Potter]

Perhaps you should think used. I picked up an early Excalibur for $100. This is the one made in Canada, and was the model for the DeWalt.

Rick Potter

[John Fabre]

Sent you a PM.

[Jerome Hanby]

Haunt any Craigslist area to which you can reasonably drive. I got a Hegner Multimax for about that price. Kind of a sad set of circumstances, but some older person is always passing away leaving a daughter with a shop full of tools about which she has no clue and no interest and the need to clean out so they can sell the house...

[Ronald Blue]

I looked at the Orlando Craigslist. Looked like some possibilities there and all easily under your budget amount. Tampa area has a Dewalt 788 for $250. Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

[glenn bradley]

I'm not normally a used tool kind of guy. Not that there aren't deals, my particular situation makes the time required unavailable so I have to pay ;-( Having been down the scrollsaw road IMHO I would not buy anything new that is in your price range. Definitely look used for DeWalt, Hegnar, RBI or Excaliburs. Double-bevel Marquetry requires a reasonably controlled cutting area and I tried many lower-priced offerings; Dremel, Hitachi, others, I even tried a Proxxon. Even though I was willing to accept other weak areas in exchange, all lacked the stability and control required for precision work. This was just my experience. Of course, a skilled craftsman could do this with almost any saw; even a hand powered coping saw but, that is not me. I grabbed a DW788, stand and light in a package deal from Grizzly :). Add some Flying Dutchman blades and some guidance from those that do this better than I do and I am quite happy with the result.

[Paul Saffold]

Not to hijack the thread but I too, have been watching for a decent sc and have a question about the D788. Are there different models of the 788? If so are some better than others and should some be avoided? Seems like I vaguely recall something along those lines being mentioned but I might have the manufacturer / model mixed up. Thanks.

[glenn bradley]

Not to hijack the thread but I too, have been watching for a decent sc and have a question about the D788. Are there different models of the 788? If so are some better than others and should some be avoided? Seems like I vaguely recall something along those lines being mentioned but I might have the manufacturer / model mixed up. Thanks.

Type I and Type II (Canadian vs Chinese made?). My understanding is that there were various performance issues with the initial Type II's; blade capacity, motor heat and other issues. I didn't start looking at them till well after these things were being discussed. At the time I did check my Type II for the noted problems and had only one of them. The original table had an unacceptable arch in it. An obvious flaw from not properly curing and machining the material like much of what we see out of China. DeWalt replaced it immediatly and without comment. Replacement table is dead flat. I can't say that this means the other things folks were complaining about were officially "fixed". All I can say is I can find none of the reported problems on my machine with the exception of the table which may or may not be indicative of whatever the original QA issues were.

[Myk Rian]

Used is the way I go. Vintage used. Then I restore.
http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad222/MykRian/Delta 40-110 scroll saw/Img_0105s.jpg

[richard poitras]

I have a DeWalt type 1 Canadian made one I am going to be selling if you are interested. It's just sitting in my shop as I have never used it. $175.00?
Richard
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[Mike Henderson]

Look in Craigslist. Scroll Saws don't sell that well because they're special purpose machines and not a lot of people use them. And as someone earlier posted, there's often estate listings where the executor just wants to get rid of the saw. I bought one on Craigslist recently (for marquetry) and did a lot of research. I found that many of the saws were almost new. I was looking for one with a long throat so it took me a while to find just what I wanted, but if you're willing to take a 20" or so, there were plenty and at very decent prices. Also, negotiate, negotiate. Many of the sellers have been sitting on the listing for quite a while - months - so they're ready to negotiate just to get rid of the saw. You should be able to get a very good quality saw for $200 if you're willing to take one with a throat of 16" to 22".

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

I have a DeWalt type 1 Canadian made one I am going to be selling if you are interested. It's just sitting in my shop as I have never used it. $175.00?
Richard
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That's a great price. If I lived close to you, I'd buy it as a second machine. The Dewalt is a good scroll saw - very low vibration.

Mike

[Rick Potter]

I would also add RBI to the list of saws to look for.

Rick Potter

[Ronald Blue]

There is an RBI in the Chicago CL listings. Here is the link. They also have a 16" in a separate ad.http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/tls/2741085464.html

[Myk Rian]

There is an RBI in the Chicago CL listings. Here is the link. They also have a 16" in a separate ad.
Umm, what link?

[Doug Colombo]

I would also add RBI to the list of saws to look for.Rick Potter
+1 for RBI - great saw

[Ronald Blue]

Here it is. I forgot to put it in. http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/tls/2741085464.html

[Paul Saffold]

I have a DeWalt type 1 Canadian made one I am going to be selling if you are interested. It's just sitting in my shop as I have never used it. $175.00?
Richard
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Too bad you aren't closer. You are in MI right?

[richard poitras]

Sorry guys Mich. it is? :eek:

Richard

[Chris Hudson42]

First, let me thank everyone for their great advice. I agree that trying to find something used is likely going to be my best bet - as long as I can go see it before purchase. Unfortunately, I am now in Western MA - and Albany is nearest craiglist - 50mi away. Not too likely.

So here is where I am:

From looking at the parts diagrams, pictures, etc. - it seems the Harbor Freight 93102 ($70), the Skil 3335 ($109), and the Ryobi SCV164VS ($119) - are all the same 2-parallel arm machine. Even the Shop Fox ($133) W1713 looks like it might be an earlier (cast iron table) version of the same machine. The PROXXON 37088 ($144) is totally different - with what seems a fixed arm and likely an under-table cam-driven reciprocating mechanism of some sort. (Thoughts? Corrections?)

Numerous problems are reported by reviewers on the 2-parallel arm machines, including vibration and accuracy, though one extensive review of the Skil claimed 'easy 1/64 accuracy' after tweaking somehow. The PROXXON reviews seem centered on lack of power, but with good accuracy, and a straight non-elliptical cut.

The video I found impressive: http://www.proxxon.com/eng/html/27088.php

Now remember my only use for this is marquetry - thin wood veneers (commercial) up to maybe 3/32 - 1/8 (if made myself). I have a bandsaw for heavy cuts. Accuracy is most important.

So I am leaning toward this setup: The PROXXON has a fixed table apparently. I need one able to tilt a bit - maybe to 7 degrees. Probably re-inventing the wheel here, but:

Envision a rectangular box very slightly taller than the PROXXON table. The PROXXON slides inside. The bottom of the box has 'ears' for table clamping' The PROXXON is rigidly screwed to the inside of the eared bottom (any rubber grommets removed). The box top floats just above the existing table, is surfaced with melamine, has a small sawblade hole in it, is fastened on one end with a piece of piano hinge, and the other with some kind of rigid height-adjust screw mechanism to be devised. All this to reduce vibration, add angle adjustability, and retain accuracy.

What do you think? Comments? Suggestions?

Any and all appreciated!

Chris

[george wilson]

All the new saws I can think of use a walking beam motion,which causes the blade to rock in a circular arc as it goes up and down. The old saws like the old Deltas had a straight up and down motion. The rocking motion sands the wood away on either side of the blade,which I do not like. I tend to do small work,and that rocking motion is a big bother. I picked up a used Hegner cheap,but never use it. And,the blades are a huge bother to change on the Hegner. If I was serious,I'd make different blade chucks for it. It only ever gets used for the insides of saw handles now.

I made myself a scroll saw out of an old die filer. The blade goes straight up and down. I'd advise finding an old Delta,or other old model saw that has the tubular spring housing in the upper arm to pull the blade straight up.

A problem is that the Delta,and others I suspect,have a pot metal part that the cam runs in to impart the up and down motion. This part is frequently distorted and broken. Delta calls this a "historic part" and wants WAY,WAY too much for it,($200.00 ?) I helped a young guy machine out a steel replacement part for his Delta,which will never wear out. If you have a mill drill,you can make this part.

Once I had a marvelous old Walker Turner,much nicer than a Delta,but no place to keep it. Original 1950's stand and all.I'm not much of a scroll saw user,always just using a jeweler's saw. Now,my neck hurts from hunching over a birdmouth board,and I might get back to using a scroll saw. I could always use a hand saw much better and more accurately than a machine would provide. My home made one has a variable speed unit on it. If I could put the variable speed unit on a foot pedal,it would be most useful when cutting around very small corners,etc.. That would emulate hand sawing control.

[richard poitras]

I Would Keep looking one will show up on Craig's list....

[Mike Henderson]

Many old scroll saws have a straight up and down motion because the top of the blade is held by a chuck attached to a spring. So the powered part is the bottom which pulls the blade downward - the spring pulls it up. The problem with that approach is that the tension on the blade changes over the stroke, and that can lead to broken blades. Modern scroll saws have moved away from the spring approach because of that issue.

However, lots of people use scroll saws with that technology and it seems to work well for them so I wouldn't reject an older scroll saw in good condition and within your price range. The only modern scroll saw that truly goes up and down (without an arc) is the Eclipse, but it's a pretty expensive saw and you don't see them on the used market very often.

I've used a few different brands of scroll saws, including an older Delta (I think that's what it was) that used the spring approach and they all worked well if they were set up well. I was impressed with the DeWalt - just wish it had a longer throat.

Mike

[One problem with older scroll saws is that most of them required you to change a belt position to change speed. It's really nice to have variable speed so you can find the best speed for your work, with minimum vibration.]

[george wilson]

I never much use a scroll saw,Mike,but was good to google and read bout the Eclipse. If I were in the market for a saw,that would be my choice. I just wonder how long the toothed belt lasts?

[Mike Henderson]

I never much use a scroll saw,Mike,but was good to google and read bout the Eclipse. If I were in the market for a saw,that would be my choice. I just wonder how long the toothed belt lasts?
I don't know the answer, George, but I do know that there's a long lead time to buy one of those machines. I've heard stories that the backlog is months long - and some people have told me it's a lot of months. Maybe someone who bought one can comment on how long it took to get the machine after ordering.

Paul Schurch has one and he commented that it's the most over-engineered scroll saw on the market.

Mike