Maple Fungal Help..

[Michael Menzli]

Greetings creekers, (Please move if this is not the right forum)

Ive done a few searches and cant quite find the answer Im looking for. I recently cut down a moderate size silver maple with Ambrosia beetle damage. The beetle left some beautiful streaking throughout. Now the problem. After cutting the tree I did not seal the ends as Ive run out of anchorseal. The logs have been laying for about five days, two of which were very rainy. I went to harvest and begin to cut the wood into rounds yesterday and all of the ends have some greenish/brown fungal stuff growing. I would liken this to mold on bread. I cut one of the logs into rounds and the green has penetrated into the wood, causing major discoloration in the wood, especially the ambrosia . The wood is still fairly wet.

So... am I at a lost cause? Ive done some digging on the net and have read various suggestions for maple fungal growth which include bleaching. My concern is the bleaching will kill the color in the ambrosia stains. Ive read that sun may do the trick.

I would love suggestions as I have a decent amount of lumber I would hate to lose.

Thanks

[Scott Hackler]

Sounds like the decay/spalting process begun. Not a real big problem and in fact the added spalting might actually improve the coloring of the wood. Cut off the ends and turn your bowls or whatevers. A soak in denatured alcohol (Dna), over night, would likely kill any bacteria or fungus. If you don't soak your rough outs in Dna, you could still saturate the piece in Dna and wrap it up in a plastic bag for a day. At least that is what I would do.....

[Prashun Patel]

Post a pic. Black or fuzzy mold usually doesn't penetrate that deeply that fast. Some maples Can turn from a bright blonde to burnt brown in hours when exposed to oxygen. That's not mold though, and that also is localized to the surface. These two will mill away pretty easily.

If the discoloration is more pervasive and deeper, then it might have been present all along. There's no way to reverse that.

Checking, cracks, and surface discoloration may happen quickly, but "Major" discoloration of wood doesn't normally happen within 5 days of a tree falling - at least on the few fresh-fallen maples that I've worked with.

[Michael Menzli]

Thanks Scott, I actually picked up some DNA the other day and will def. give these a soak. I'll get some pics posted as Im terrible with descriptions. I hope it does assist with color, right now the funk is adding a funky greenish hue to everything...including the tan parts of the heartwood. I would say this fungal is predominately in the heartwood area and radiates out ..very little staining going toward the bark...which is usually where I see the spalting..Ive actually toyed with some spalting over the summer...fun stuff.

[Jon McElwain]

I usually use Tinactin for my fungal problems..... :D

[Wayne Hendrix]

I usually use Tinactin for my fungal problems..... :D

I find this works best, its very tough actin!

[Reed Gray]

All maple trees have a fairly high level of sugar in them. Great for all those little pests that love to turn solid wood into compost. Most of the time, as said before, the mold doesn't penetrate very far. You might want to get them covered, off the ground, and sealed. Cut into sections, center cut them down the pith, and seal.

robo hippy

[Bill Wyko]

It's also possible that it will turn black over the drying process. Keep us updated on your progress.

[Michael Menzli]

Thanks for all the help guys..Im def. ignorant when it comes to these sorts of things. Outside of faliing trees for firewood I have limited cutting experience.

Sorry for the yelowwish hue..took these under my icadescent lamp. The maple I cut is known locally as a silver or swamp maple. Its also a "soft maple" . The standard for this is a tan to brown heartwood and a creamy white sapwood. The heartwood almost always has variation.

The 1st 3 pics depict the issue the best. The heartwood on this cut is a light brown..as you see toward the middle it becomes green with the outer most edges turning a dark green and black in some spots. This green was not present when the tree first fell.. it is now prominant in everything with some decline closer to the trunk.The last pic is a small bowl I turned out of this tree showing the beetle damage and cool coloration. This is why I want to save what I can.

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[Tim Browne]

I'd take a sample chunk and cut it into slices. Put 1 slice in DNA overnight, put another in bleach and dry a 3rd slice in the microwave. This test will help you determine the best course to take with the balance of the wood you have.

[Dick Strauss]

The ambrosia maple that I've seen often shows both browns and greens like what you have shown. Both the greens and browns are from the ambrosia beatles as far as I can tell so I don't think it is a fungus issue. I think the greens look more brown when fresh cut and change to their real color of green as the wood dries.

Your wood looks great and you are lucky to have such a find!

[Prashun Patel]

I've not seen that coloration before on spalting maple. It almost looks like the green/black hues you can get on poplar.
If it were me, I wouldn't try to alter this at all; I'd turn it as is. If it's not punky (the last pic suggests it's not) then I think yr results will be beautiful.

So, I'd just turn it as is.

For me, the white on maple tends to get brown and unsightly during the first stages of drying. This presents me with problems when finish turning green wood; it's hard for me to sand it all out. So, if I had that wood, I'd be rough turning it and waxing it for a couple months, and then finishing turning it when it's dry. I believe that green will remain.

[Jim Burr]

To take another route...
I don't own any Anchorseal but also have a lot of stuff at 12" or there about. 18" plastic wrap has worked fantastic in every case I've used it. I have some 12x18 split walnut logs I received from Michigan soaking wet. They have a bit of mold, but have not even a hairline crack to be found after 10 months wrapped up. There is also some mesquite, Euc, maple and something else I've forgotten about on the shelf. All in plastic wrap and all un-cracked/checked. If you haven't tried it...don't knock it yet!

[Michael Menzli]

Cool Jim...Thanks for the heads up. I will def. try some plastic wrap... do you store it indoors or? Ive made a little makeshift kiln that I like to dry things in but havt dialed it in exactly..it runs around 10 % rh and about 80 degrees.. I have read a little about stripping a few strips of bark on the maple to let it lose moisture out of the sides instead of the ends.. This mold or whatever it is has caught me by surprise...but then again if this is some sort of chemical reaction from the beetle then it makes a lot more sense..especially how it runs from one side to the other. It almost reminds me of mineral streaks a bit but the stuff is soaking wet. It hasnt tainted the outdoor creamy sapwood...just the heartwood. I really havnt had a ton of checking outside of stupid mistakes/ignorance..but once I got things sealed all has been ok. Now I have some bigger stuff I need to get under cover before the snow hits..some of it goes quick in the elements...ie birch and sycamore.

[Jamie Donaldson]

Michael- silver maple is a soft member of the maple clan, and yours was obviously very wet, which promoted the rapid spread of the spalting stains. I usually try to dry it in half log sections, enough that it doesn't spit moisture at me when turning. It tends to be a stringy mess when worked wet, but sometimes the color makes the effort worthwhile. There is a high incidence of splitting as it dries, due to the high moisture content, and the pith is often punky.

[Don Orr]

That coloration looks a lot like a lightning strike to me. I had some like that from a neighbor a while back.

[Michael Menzli]

Thanks for all the continued thoughts guys.. The tree was fairly healthy when I cut it down..there were a few dead branches that caught my interest and why I fell the tree. There has been a similar pattern with a large number of silver maples on the land. Most are closer to a swampy/wet section ..what i call the low section of our property. I was stoked to see some of the ambrosia or similar beetle work. I read recently there is another beetle that can attack maple and leaves a consistent pattern of side by side holes...this def. has my interest.

Anyways I am not aware of any localized lightning strikes. This wood was a very standard..white outer portion and a nice tan/ brown heartwood.. the green black started after the logs were exposed to rainy weather and air?I intend on taking some outdoor shots today to capture the wood in its natural setting. I think the indoor lighting has things off.

Yes this wood was fairly wet when it fell. I went out of town and planned on making rounds for bowls/goblets when I got back. Just so happened we were hit with a nice 2 day soaking rain which was followed by some fluctuating temperatures...some warm for this time of year.

I noticed that I dropped a log on my way to the house and it received a decent amount of sun yesterday. It appears that the outer dark green quickly turned into a faint greenish grey color with sunlight? I am pulling the chunk out of dna this afternoon and trying that theory as well.

So on to the spalting thought.. if this is indeed spalting/decomposition should I let the fungi do their thing for a while? I have some beautiful spalted sycamore and birch.I will say the 1st thing I thought of when this started was moldy bread. I wonder if cool and damp set things up.. The only thing that continues to baffle me is most fungal damage I read about seems to be on the outer sections of wood and somewhat planeable or can be cut out The streaking..as seen in the picture runs through the entire log..which makes sense if the spalting fungi move that rapidly.

Thanks again for those interested and for the great insight.

[Primvs Aebvtivs]

Sorry, but this may be completely wrong... IF the dis-colouration runs all the way through each section of log, as show in the first pictures, can you check the stump to see if there is any colour match? It may be that the tree was growing in / on / around something in the ground that has formed this... You say they're in "swampy" ground, is there any history of previously felled trees on that bit of land - any old residents hanging around? They may be able to tell you about the land, and possible minerals on / in it. Just a thought that there may be a concentration of something which affected the growth cycle. Nice bowl by the way!

[Michael Menzli]

215841215842 Here is a prime example of what is happening. The left pic was taken about 10 minutes after cutting off an end of a log. I observed the end after cutting and thought I started to see is getting greener by the minute. Sure enough I took the 2nd pic only 45 minutes after the 1st.

These are random pics..all freshly cut and what I want to save. This green hue is penetrating the wood all the way through and turning this nice brown into a greyish green hue.. rather meh in appearance. The last is a quick bowl I turned to display the color distortion. The creamy rainbow of brown on the right quickly turns a greyish green..after this green dries its all the color is gone...very strange.

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[Neil McWilliams]

I cut some magnolia in the late spring and was amazed to see it begin to spalt as I watched. I tried spraying bleach on endgrain surfaces before anchorseal but it had no effect. I did have success with liberal sprinkling of Comet over endgrain surfaces. This worked on the pieces I put it on but may have been a fluke. Still, it is cheap to experiment with.

[Michael Menzli]

I forgot to mention. 215856 This is the closest log to the trunk..basically where I fell the tree. It has dried some but you can see little flecks of ambrosia work...The biggest surprise... no green/spalting? I will say this wood seems denser perhaps and is older...most of the greening wood is on newer wood toward the top of the tree.

[Nathan Hawkes]

Michael, your silver maple looks very similar to some red maple I've been working with lately. The green coloration is nearly identical, and the darkening of it is also like mine. I think it is fungal staining, at least it appears to be. It was heavier where the tree had been damaged, with less color towards the stump. My wood also developed mildew spots as it dried. The dark color and the spots do sand out, but take some effort. I found that there was virtually no difference when I used bleach to try and kill the fungus. The extra moisture from the bleach solution actually made the mildew worse. bleach seems to degas pretty quickly, leaving very little chloride (or is it chlorite?) ions to fight the fungal spores. I found better results letting the bowls spin for a few minutes after finish cuts were completed, then using my air compressor to try and push as much moisture out of the wood as possible. The darkened spots seem to be oxidation over top of the already darkened fungal staining, fwiw. At least in my case, they went less deep than the mildew spots.

[Michael Menzli]

Thanks Nathan...we are VERY close geographically so very interesting to hear your having similar results. Ill double check my leaf patterns on the tree to insure it is indeed a silver maple..we have plenty of silver and red but think the bark differs quite a bit.. Still seeking out some sugar maple trees but have been told they probably went down with a blight about 20 yrs ago..along with huge ash and locust trees. :( I tried soaking a chunk in dna and have put it in my mini kiln overnight..plan to check after work. My wife also picked me up some oxalic acid that I wanted to try for giggles. I may have to chalk this up as a learning experience. I will say Im bummed as the areas Ive even covered with anchorseal have the green growing under the wax before it dries. I do plan on stripping some bark and giving that a shot. I have several more to cut but dont want this to repeat. I thought about cutting at a different season when moisture content might be lower...which you know in VA is not often :)

I will say it def. appears to be staining the wood which is the bumming factor. I even noticed when handling a wet piece my hand actually had a black/green hue on it.

[Michael Menzli]

Well did some trial and error tests to sort this stuff out. I treated a portion with DNA and really saw no beneficial results..I will say this is after the wood had turned green.. I plan on dropping a small piece that hasnt turned in dna and check results. I also tried standard household bleach on spots and saw nominal improvement..simply lightened the darker area...the same with slightly better results with oxalic acid and warm water. After closely looking at the wood it most def. appears to be part of the decay process , as the wood takes on an almost greyish hue. When turning this wood it seems punky-like in spots instead of the standard "maple". So my conclusion at this point is that the wood has simply begun to die while standing and this is the end result. I fell another tree with an extreme amount of beetle work..this was a little farther gone and appeared to go green almost as quick. I will say..it may be coincidence but after turning I covered the blank in Penatryl (sp.) and this appeared to stop the spread of the green?