Yet another Beall buffing question

[Joe McMahon]

I have sprayed my peppermills with lacquer and now I want to buff them. I wrote Beal;l and they said that you always buff after finishing. I finished the lacquer and then read that buffing lacquer could lead to problems because the lacquer might "melt"?

My Beall system is new. Now I have reservations about using it.

What should I do? Skip the first wheel and just do the last two????? Don't buff at all???

[Alan Trout]

Don Pencil, makes a specific compound for lacquer and plastic. It works wonderful but you do still need to be careful because you can burn through lacquer pretty easy. You also need to use a softer wheel like a Domit Flannel wheel.

Alan

[Richard Allen]

Buffing almost always makes for a big improvement in the look of the object. There is a bit of a learning curve to buffing. Buffing can cut through some finishes. This is not the end of the world as a little sanding and a new coat of finish can "fix" this. Buffing is fraught with dangers. I have had buffing wheels snatch objects I was buffing so quickly and with such authority that there was nothing I could do but watch as my beautiful work was bounced around the room. Quite often there is not "fix" for the damage that is caused during such an event. The key is to make sure that the object being buffed is always presented in a trailing position to the buffing wheel. There is a break-in period for buffing wheels. During this break-in period a LOT of fibers from the wheels will become airborne (and the fibers will stick to anything that is the least big sticky). You can accelerate the break-in period by presenting the corners of square stock to the spinning wheels.

The bottom line is that I would not learn buffing on an object which I was very proud of or which was destined for a "special" purpose unless I had time and materials to make a replacement.

Learn buffing on simple objects and break-in the wheels on simple objects. Buffing is most often done on oil finishes, a finish which can not be melted through. Lacquer, shellac and varnish are not finishes I would want to learn buffing on. The most forgiving of these finishes is varnish. Lacquer and shellac I find equally easy to melt through. I find lacquer easier to recover from burning through while buffing.

Avoid buffing with "white diamond" on dark open grain woods like walnut.

Avoid buffing with rouge on white woods like holly.

Avoid buffing objects with voids or open burl eyes. The buffing will grab the object from your hands and deposits fibers and buffing in the crevices which you will not be able to remove.

I know at this point you are wondering "why did I ever get this darn buffing system?" The answer is simple, when the buffing works right, which after break-in and getting past the fairly short learning curve, you will be able to achieve wondrous looking finishes that will make you smile.

[Ryan Baker]

Don't be afraid to buff lacquer. Almost everything ever finished with lacquer gets buffed ... that's kinda the point. You DO need to be careful not to buff too hard or too long or you will buff through the finish. You also need to build up some thickness first, about a dozen coats or so. Buff after a couple coats and you will go right through.

When buffing a finish (as opposed to buffing wood, say with just an oil coat), you don't need coarse compounds or wheels. White diamond and a light touch will work just fine. If you have something like the Don Pencil PL compound/wheel, even better.

Don't use your real piece as your trial run. Get a touch for buffing in general, and buffing lacquer in particular, before you do it on your good piece. Spray some lacquer on some scrap boards and practice buffing a bit. You will figure out the "touch" very quickly. Watch what happens with the finish and adjust your pressure/movement accordingly. It's not hard to get the hang of it.

Make sure your lacquer is REALLY dry before buffing. It will seem dry in a few hours, but it is not. Buffing that will make a mess. Lacquer really needs a month or more to cure out before buffing. You CAN, when you absolutely must, get away with buffing after a few days, but you have to be really careful not to buff hard or build up heat, or you will end up with a sticky, smeared mess.

[Josh Bowman]

Lacquer when buffed out with the Beal will look like glass. Just make sure it's cured. I just check the smell, when the lacquer smell is gone, buff away. Don't buff real hard, just buff, it works great.

[John Keeton]

Drop your buffing speed to 750 rpm and you will have much better results with little chance of burning and less chance of yanking the piece out of your hand.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I agree with the others and let my lacquered pieces dry as long as I can. The key as others have said is to keep the piece moving and use light pressure. To heavy on the pressure and to long in one spot it won't make any difference how long it has dried. Don't ask me how I know this.:mad: I turned myself a cylinder, finished with lacquer and gave it a practice run. Didn't take long to figure out what I had did wrong.

[robert baccus]

All the above is good stuff. easy on the pressure. when finishing really hard woods--walnut is marginal, you can get a bueatiful finish by just buffing the wood. pay attention to the color as above. red tripoli is fine for nonwhite woods. tropical hardwoods really shine like glass when finished with a carnuba buffing.--------old forester

[Bill Hensley]

I really like lacquer and it satisfies my need for instant gratification. All of the above advice is "right on". Light pressure, keep it moving and slow your speed down. Naturally I learned all this the hard way, burned right through the finish and dye on a vessel.

I recently buffed a lacquered piece where the lacquer had only sat for 2 days. Initially I started with the red but trying to go lightly so as not to burn it, it was taking too long. So I decided to give wet sanding a shot. I leveled the finish with 1200 grit and then buffed with both compounds very slowly and lightly (didn't push into the wheel). It was the best finish I've achieved yet with lacquer. See the discussion on "Fast track Sweet Gum" for my results. Good luck!

[Bill White]

I have a "cleaner" for my wheels (not Beal) that I made from spent bandsaw blades. Stacked up some with the teeth alternating, and then dipped the ends in the tool handle stuff. It fluffs up the wheels and removes any old swarf that might have accumulated.
Bill

[robert baccus]

One "cool" way to avoid waiting forever, and burning the lacquer is to forget the Wax stick compounds and go to liquid car compounds. rub them into your clean wheel and start at 2-300 rpm. these come in various grits at auto stores.---------old forester

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I break in my buffing wheels when they are new with coarse sandpaper wrapped around a piece of wood. I use whatever grit I happen to have 60 or 80 or 100. It will "defuzz" the wheels. If I feel a wheel gets gummed up after they have been used for a while, I will repeat the process to freshen the wheel.

I often buff lacquer and dewaxed shellac. As others have stated, tight grip, light pressure, reduced RPMs and keep it moving. I friction/apply dewaxed shellac and Deft brushing lacquer on the lathe. Both of those finishes can be repaired if damaged.

Don't be afraid. Just pay attention while you are doing it.

Practice on something that has little value never hurts.

There is a learning curve like anything else. Good luck!

[Justin Stephen]

How long does the last coat of WOP need to sit before a piece is buffed? I just realized that I am on a tight timeline with a Christmas present and had intended to buff it, but I may not be able to.

[John Keeton]

Justin, most folks wait 8-10 days, it seems. However, I usually will wet sand my pieces and buff them a day or so after the last coat. You must be gentle, though!

[Joe McMahon]

So I guess what everyone is saying is that buffing lacquered pieces is a bit more complicated than:

"Wax on, right hand. Wax off, left hand. Wax on, wax off. Breathe in through nose, out the mouth. Wax on, wax off. Don't forget to breathe, very important"

Boy, another lesson in the "No free lunch" theory. Oh well, good advice is not to be wasted. I'm going to go sandpaper my wheels and then do some practicing. Thanks for all of the great advice.

[Bill Wyko]

If you are looking for a shiny clear coat, I sugest using automotive clear coat. I use Advantage 545 hi solids clear coat and the 547 medium catatlist. One coat is like 5 coats of lacquer and it dries hard as a rock. Then when you buff it, you're not as likely to burn or melt it. In addition, the wait time to sand and buff is as little as 24 hrs.

[John Keeton]

Ahhhh.....finally, the secret to the famous Wyko finish that I have seen on so many humidors and finely segmented turnings!!;):D

[Bill Wyko]

Yes sir. I use to use lacquer and it would continue to shrink for weeks sometimes. This stuff kicks butt. Expensive but you'll use less and save time in the end.

[Ryan Baker]

Yeah, but is that a catalyzed lacquer or a urethane? Lacquer is bad enough, but urethanes will kill you without the proper equipment to shoot it.

[robert baccus]

Over the years i have put together several 1 & 2 wheel buffers. there are a few variations on the buffing system by beale. 1(you can charge your wheels with liquid auto buffing compounds and waxes. they are much harder to burn the finish with. 2) you can use these same products on your piece on the lathe. i usually wet-sand with 220 and use one or two grits of liquid compounds followed by liquid wax. Meguliard is a good brand and the compounds come in course to fine grits. ever wonder how they get those new corvettes so glossy. you can also use a coarser compound to reduce gloss. when i knock a vase or bowl off the glueblock it is ready to finish the bottom and sign. smaller pieces 6" ect. i buff on the wheels. good luck---these are not as hard to do as it is typing for me.---old forester

[Scott Hackler]

Very interesting information there, Bill! I might be inclined to look into that for a glass like finish.


If you are looking for a shiny clear coat, I sugest using automotive clear coat. I use Advantage 545 hi solids clear coat and the 547 medium catatlist. One coat is like 5 coats of lacquer and it dries hard as a rock. Then when you buff it, you're not as likely to burn or melt it. In addition, the wait time to sand and buff is as little as 24 hrs.

[Bill Wyko]

You definitely want to use a respirator, not just a dust mask. It is nasty stuff to spray.