PDA

View Full Version : whats the difference - 60Hz or 120Hz LCD TV



Kevin Gregoire
12-11-2011, 1:54 PM
im looking to get a new tv and since flat screens are about the only thing sold anymore i want to know which
is better and what the difference is in some?

i know plasma is an energy hog and not worth buying.

so im left with LCD, and i know 120Hz is the best but how much better is it over 60Hz?
prices keep coming down but i can get a good sized 60Hz for same price as a smaller
120Hz.

those that have experience please let me know your thoughts?

Myk Rian
12-11-2011, 2:46 PM
120 hz shows movement better, since the refresh is faster.

Matt Meiser
12-11-2011, 3:34 PM
But go look in the store. I had in mind that I HAD to get a 120Hz. I came home with a 60Hz because after going back and forth about 100 times the TV I thought looked the best happened to be 60.

David Epperson
12-11-2011, 4:06 PM
The human eye will see 20hz as being "realtime", a 60 hz set refreshes every other line in the video in one pass and then the others so the entire picture is refreshed at about 30hz - which is still 150% better than the eye can detect. 120 hz is a sales gimmick to get more $$$ for something undetectably "better". If it's "better" but you can't tell it - is it really worth the extra $$$? Not for me.

Jason Roehl
12-11-2011, 4:33 PM
Not quite right, David. Since he's talking about an LCD set, it will refresh the whole picture 60 times per second--LCD TVs are either 720p or 1080p. The "p" stands for "progressive", and even if the TV is receiving a lower frame rate, the TV will upconvert by interpolation. A 1080i TV (older HD rear-projection sets) uses interlacing as you described, where every other line is updated with each frame.

Now, whether or not one can see the difference is a whole different debate. I have not looked at the differences in 60Hz, 120Hz and 240Hz TVs, so I can't say which I prefer.

Cyrus Brewster 7
12-11-2011, 4:50 PM
I have been able to see the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz - mainly in high action sequences in movies. I have heard the same is true for video games. For regular viewing you will be hard pressed to see the difference. Move up to 240Hz, though, and you will most likely be paying extra for a number only.

I have a 60Hz and have no problems with it - 120Hz was not available when I purchased it. I will only move up when my current set dies. Actually, I am not sure if 60Hz is still available.

David Hawxhurst
12-11-2011, 5:19 PM
for the most part you'll generally not see to much of difference between refresh rates but there is a difference. if you watch a lot of high speed action type sports or shows you'll notice less blurring with the higher refresh rates. also the size of the tv will have some effect. you may not notice the blurring on smaller say 40" range while it maybe very noticeable on something much larger like 60 plus inches. some will never seen the difference while others will see the difference. you will have to look at them and decide for you self which works for your eyes. get your self a dvd that has the actions you'll be watching and take it with you to your local hifi (home theater) store and play it on different tv's to find the one you like the best. i personally avoid the chains (best buy, hh greg, etc) and favor the smaller shops as they know the products better and the prices are competitive sometimes cheaper. the customer service is much better and the after sales support is also much better.

John Coloccia
12-11-2011, 5:23 PM
It's not a sales gimmick. It 120Hz is there to eliminate judder, which comes about because of how video recorded at one rate must be crammed into 60Hz somehow. Unless 60Hz is a multiple of the rate (and 24 doesn't go into 60) the frames will have to be mucked with in order to get them to fit. This causes herky jerky motion, clearly visible when the camera pans.

24 goes into 120, so 120Hz TVs experience no judder.


http://vimeo.com/1792533

This isn't exactly the same thing, but it's an excellent demonstration of exactly what judder is. Once you see it you'll say, "Ohhhh....THAT'S judder", because we all see it and have just gotten accustomed to it.

Jason Roehl
12-11-2011, 5:37 PM
Now you've ruined me, John. The one on the left drove me nuts.

John Coloccia
12-11-2011, 6:31 PM
The judder isn't quite so bad going from 24 to 60 as it was in the clips I posted (the only ones I could find that demonstrated it), but yeah....it's hard to not notice it once someone points it out. LOL. Sorry :)

Greg Peterson
12-11-2011, 10:24 PM
I drove myself crazy researching all the different technologies and came to realize that no one technology was superior to another one. It all came down to what I was going to view and where I was going to view it.

Edge lit LED LCD versus local dimming LED LCD, 60,120,240 Hz, plasma, DLP...

No one set is going to be everything. Find one that fits the largest number of your criteria.

I received an extraordinary deal on a Mitsubishi DLP set that I could not refuse. I would have had to pay twice the price to get anywhere near the size and quality of picture in LCD.

Joe Angrisani
12-12-2011, 12:05 AM
Forget the mumbo jumbo. BUY WITH YOUR EYES, not the spec sheet.

Kevin Gregoire
12-12-2011, 12:12 AM
Forget the mumbo jumbo. BUY WITH YOUR EYES, not the spec sheet.

haha, now thats a pretty damn good way of putting it! :D

Ryan Mooney
12-12-2011, 1:01 AM
With old monitors (cathode ray) I would avoid 60hz like the plague because its the same phase as electricity and would be always slightly off sync with the lights (magnetic ballast lights pulse slightly with the incoming current - normally this isn't visible but when you're staring at a monitor for 8 hours a day it will give you a blinding headache). Interestingly I don't have that problem with LCD (or LED) because it refreshes differently (its not a single ray but it interpolates).

Almost totally irrelevant to the OP although it does illustrate one minor problem with buying with your eyes.. that requires you to preview the screen in the same environment you'll be watching it in and the ambient light (fluorescent, incandescent, sunlight, etc..) all make a big difference in the perception of what looks good.

Belinda Williamson
12-12-2011, 8:10 AM
Forget the mumbo jumbo. BUY WITH YOUR EYES, not the spec sheet.

A friend who works at Best Buy told me that they monkey with the settings on the TVs so that the ones appearing to have the best picture and sound are the ones with the largest profit margin for them. Anyone else ever heard this, or know if it is true? We're in the market for a new TV (well, the SO is, I'm not) and I'm not sure how to choose one. Maybe I should check Consumer Reports.

Gary Redden
12-12-2011, 9:05 AM
I do not know why you are saying a plasma is not worth buying. I t really comes down to what you plan on watching on the TV as to what is the best option for you as each technology has its drawbacks. The thing to understand is that a plasma has a break-in period where have to really be aware of the programs you are watching, like ESPN, as you can cause it to have a permanent image burn-in. If you break-in a plasma correctly, it will last a long time and have a great picture. Then there is an LED, the thing to be aware of with them is that some are illuminated from the sides and can have what is known as a "flashlight" effect. This is where are times during dark scenes, a single LED can show through the edge of the screen as a single pin of light. The one thing to also keep in mind is the average room lighting where the TV will be. LED's are better in a brightly lite room then a plasma but in a dark room, a plasma can be outstanding. Here is a link to a write-up about the 2 technologies, the choice is up to you. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-BSmcHKJ6JML/learn/learningcenter/home/tv_flatpanel.html

Gary

Matt Meiser
12-12-2011, 9:19 AM
A friend who works at Best Buy

My condolences...

David Hawxhurst
12-12-2011, 9:53 AM
let not forget that plasma has better blacks. all tv's come from the factory set for bright light conditions like you find at most the chain stores. most houses are less bright so you should tune your tv to your viewing conditions.

David Hawxhurst
12-12-2011, 10:00 AM
find a local store that sells the brand you intrested in. they will be more knowledgeable about the tv and settings then best buy will be. they can also most likely provide tech support and set-up.

David Weaver
12-12-2011, 10:04 AM
How much energy do the plasma TVs use now? If you're running an A/C in a house in the summer, and plasma TVs are consuming several hundred watts, then you're going to spend a significant amount of energy working the residual heat back out of the house with the A/C, in addition to the significant amount spent just to run the TV.

I'm sure they're better now, but the first plasma TV that I used in a hotel consumed 400 watts according to its sticker and made a *lot* of heat.

Ben Hatcher
12-12-2011, 10:17 AM
cnet has a pretty easy to understand primer on the various hdtv options out there right now. My biggest take away from it was that local dimming (versus edge lit) was more important than a higher refresh rate.

Larry Browning
12-12-2011, 10:35 AM
+1 for the small local audio/video only stores. Those guys will be your best bet when it comes to knowledge of the products they sell. Most times you will be talking to the owner of the store or one of his relatives. The ones we have in our town will tell you they will meet or beat Best Buy prices. Plus they deliver and setup. They will even calibrate the picture to your room for a small fee. Plus, you will be supporting a small business in your own town, which is an added bonus. It's win win all around.

Brian Elfert
12-12-2011, 10:46 AM
Today's plasma TVs don't take near as much energy as older models. Plasma TVs usually have the best picture quality and the cost can be less than a decent LCD TV.

Van Huskey
12-12-2011, 10:52 AM
60hz... :)

Belinda is correct although I have no personal knowledge of the margin issue sets are usually on display in "torch" mode, with the high saturation and very bright so they look good (to the untrained eye) even in the harsh light of a big box store. Really the only way to compare sets is if they are side by side, using the same source AND both sets adjusted to ISF standards as close as they will get. This is rare even in moderately high end specialty stores, they may do a basic setup but rarely get everything as good as it will go. If you want the best picture possible comb the professional reviews and get a set that can be adjusted as close to ISF standard as possible and spend the money to get the set you buy calibrated by an ISF certified tech.

As for the refresh rate the number doesn't tell the entire story, outside of professional reviews, view each set with fast motion sports or other action and watch for blurring. I have found some lower refresh rate panels outperform the higher refresh rate panels. In very general terms I like Samsung LCD sets and Panasonic Plasma sets but that is a VERY general point of view.

Cyrus Brewster 7
12-12-2011, 11:04 AM
cnet has a pretty easy to understand primer on the various hdtv options out there right now. My biggest take away from it was that local dimming (versus edge lit) was more important than a higher refresh rate.

+1 concerning cnet. That website is a wealth of knowledge concerning all electronics. BTW - I have no affiliation with them.

If this is your first flat panel, do not forget the need for HDMI cables. If you need to buy them go to Amazon. You can usually get a 6' cable for under $5 shipped. You can also pick them up for a couple dollars more at HF. The name brand HDMI cables from Best Buy and such ($30+) will not give you a better picture. The only time that price is warranted is if you are doing long runs or have heavy electrical interference.

Rich Engelhardt
12-12-2011, 11:40 AM
orget the mumbo jumbo. BUY WITH YOUR EYES, not the spec sheet. I agree 99.99999%.
It would be 100% except for the post that John made that shows the difference...

Now - it's like looking at a picture of some rock outcropping and only seeing rocks, until someone ponts out that it looks like Winston Churchill.
You go along your whole life, trusing your eyes to see a bunch of rocks - then all of a sudden, you find yourself trying ot pick a face out of every pile of rocks you see.

Myk Rian
12-12-2011, 12:17 PM
A friend who works at Best Buy told me that they monkey with the settings on the TVs so that the ones appearing to have the best picture and sound are the ones with the largest profit margin for them. Anyone else ever heard this, or know if it is true?
The stores have a pro come in and adjust the TVs. You can do it at home with a program called, "Digital Video Essentials". There are other versions for HD and PAL. http://www.videoessentials.com/
It's a DVD that has special screens and color filters. You must get into the TVs setup menu. If you screw up the settings, you can turn the TV into a HUGE brick.
Don't do it if you have no idea what's going on.

Harry Hagan
12-12-2011, 12:59 PM
We're in the market for a new TV (well, the SO is, I'm not) and I'm not sure how to choose one. Maybe I should check Consumer Reports.

About this time last year I designed (structural components, cabinetry, wall panels, etc.) and built a friendís home theater that featured three 82" Mitsubishi 3D DLP TVs and four smaller LED TVs. All the TVs are mounted above cabinetry in a fabric-covered 37'+ wall that also accommodates some of the audio systemís speakers.

I mention this only to emphasize that Iíve viewed the Mitsubishi DLPs on many occasions and theyíre great. Their only drawback for some people might be the 20" depth. Sizes range from 60" to 92".

Check the DLPs out when doing your research.

Greg Portland
12-12-2011, 2:09 PM
The stores have a pro come in and adjust the TVs. You must go to nice stores. In my experience it is rare for any store to perform any level of calibration on the display TVs (even picking the "Bright" mode to look better under the HID lights). The TV's are typically set by the manufacturer for these lighting conditions. Hence, even a basic calibration (color, tint, contrast, brightness) with Video Essentials can yield large improvements.

Ben Hatcher
12-12-2011, 3:07 PM
Some people see rainbows in DLP displays. Also, some models have a high pitched hum from the spinning light wheel. Otherwise, DLPs are probably the best value per inch out there.

Doug Colombo
12-12-2011, 3:16 PM
let not forget that plasma has better blacks. all tv's come from the factory set for bright light conditions like you find at most the chain stores. most houses are less bright so you should tune your tv to your viewing conditions.
+1 to David's comments. With that said, I think that whichever looks the best to you, buy it.

Larry Browning
12-12-2011, 4:23 PM
I have a 55" Samsung LED that is 120hz. This is my 1st HDTV. When I first got it setup it seemed like every movie or TV show I watched, whether it was a DVD or broadcast, had this look to it that was like cheap video tape from the 60's. I have heard it described as the soap opera effect. Anyway it drove me crazy! I was about ready to take the silly thing back to the store. When I discover that this was caused by the 120hz "feature" I was able to turn that off on one of the setup menus (I forget what it is called on the Samsung) and it fixed it. So, even though mine is capable of the 120hz refresh rate the 60hz seems to produce the better picture.