Amount of effort to plane at higher bedding angles

[Bryan Schwerer]

I'm working on a plane to use to square up edges on a board. I'm dealing with some tear out with some QSWO that is changing grain directions on me a bit, so I would like it to have higher bedding angle. I would like to shape the plane so when I grip it, my knuckles will drag on the side of the board to give me some reference on square rather than having a handle, which I like to use when I need some power behind my stroakes. I have a handle on my woodie jack because I like to have some power when taking off a lot of wood. All things being equal, will a 50 degree bedding angle take more or less effort than a 45 degree angle?

[David Weaver]

more, though you might not notice it. 55 is noticeable and 60+ can be like pushing a wall if the shaving isn't thin.

If you go past 50 (I would if you already have a good 45 degree smoother, I would do 55 instead), then keep the bottom of the plane waxed in case your reaction to bear down on the plane to counter the planing resistance causes unwanted friction.

[Derek Cohen]

A knuckle-dragger ...

Brian, listen to David. He has it perfectly right.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bryan Schwerer]

Thanks David and Derek. Sadly, I have already glued these up, so my bed angle is set. The nice thing about woodies is you can just keep making them and you learn more every time.

Derek, your website has been especially helpful.

[george wilson]

Just put a little bevel on the forward cutting edge of the plane iron,and see how it behaves. No need to make a whole plane to try out steeper angles. When you find the ideal angle,then you can make a plane to suit.

[David Keller NC]

Thanks David and Derek. Sadly, I have already glued these up, so my bed angle is set. The nice thing about woodies is you can just keep making them and you learn more every time.

Derek, your website has been especially helpful.

George's thought is correct - adding a back-bevel to a bevel-down plane is the same effect as a steeper bed angle. You have another option if you wish - you can re-shape your existing bed to yield a higher effective cutting angle. That means the mouth will open up to some degree, but you can fairly easily tighten it up again by "throating" the plane (adding a wooden patch to the sole as one sometimes sees in antique planes).

Another, very effective way to do the same thing is to mortise in a second piece of wood perpendicular to the sole at the front of the blade/wedge mortise. One often sees this modification on higher-end wooden shoot board planes of the 19th century.

[Bryan Schwerer]

George's thought is correct - adding a back-bevel to a bevel-down plane is the same effect as a steeper bed angle. You have another option if you wish - you can re-shape your existing bed to yield a higher effective cutting angle. That means the mouth will open up to some degree, but you can fairly easily tighten it up again by "throating" the plane (adding a wooden patch to the sole as one sometimes sees in antique planes).

Another, very effective way to do the same thing is to mortise in a second piece of wood perpendicular to the sole at the front of the blade/wedge mortise. One often sees this modification on higher-end wooden shoot board planes of the 19th century.

Grrrr, I made the mouth too big. There's a lot to like about it though. I haven't put a final shaping on it, but it is much easier to balance and direct on a long skinny surface. It leaves a great surface on the part of the board without the tricky grain, but can tend to tear out, the big mouth probably doesn't help that. I haven't tried a back bevel yet, I want to get the mouth in order first. Unfortunately, I had put a brass throat plate on it just Derek did on his Jack plane. Epoxied in with 2 brass screws heads filed off and lapped down. I can probably drill out the screws and get a cheap chisel between brass and wood to pop the plate out of the mortise. I can't quite picture what you are talking about in the second paragraph there, David. The other thing I have seen is the blade put in a sled to add thickness.

Edit: Ok, I think I understand, building up the sole something like Figure 4 here. http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=NEXT&StoreCode=toolstore&nextpage=/extra/blogpage.html&BlogID=142

[Jim Barrett]

All things being equal, will a 50 degree bedding angle take more or less effort than a 45 degree angle?

I have a LN 5 1/2 with a 55 degree HAF and don't really think it is that bad to push around...beautiful plane but I am looking at a #4 or #3....

[James Carmichael]

You have another option if you wish - you can re-shape your existing bed to yield a higher effective cutting angle. That means the mouth will open up to some degree, but you can fairly easily tighten it up again by "throating" the plane (adding a wooden patch to the sole as one sometimes sees in antique planes).

Another, very effective way to do the same thing is to mortise in a second piece of wood perpendicular to the sole at the front of the blade/wedge mortise. One often sees this modification on higher-end wooden shoot board planes of the 19th century.

Sounds just as easy to build another woodie.

My next woodie (which on my current schedule will be somewhere around 2020), I'm going to try a 30-degree bed bevel-up

[David Keller NC]

Bryan - Actually no, what I was referring to was a second piece of wood that's all the way at the front of the throat. It's oriented vertically (perpendicular to the sole), and tapped down to compensate for wear at the front of the mouth. It's most often seen on wooden "strike block" planes - essentially a bevel-down shooting board plane.

And yeah, James, it might well be easier to build another plane if one is making Krenov-style laminated body planes. But those of us that like use and make the traditional British form of bench plane usually get pretty good at throating a plane because antiques usually have a mouth that's really too wide. One can, of course, re-sole the whole plane, but one doesn't usually see that on an antique, though it's quite common to pick up an antique that has a mortised-in throat plate on the sole. Sometimes these throat plates are made of exotic woods like ebony and rosewood, and are decoratively shaped (clover leaves seem to have been particularly popular).

[Bryan Schwerer]

OK,

Something like this

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=NEXT&StoreCode=toolstore&nextpage=/extra/blogpage.html&BlogID=145

Is this another example? http://showcase.netins.net/web/iabonsai/knight/finish.jpg That is from the Knight plane thread and I had no idea what was going on with that other wedge.

[David Keller NC]

Yep - that's it. I had a Steve Knight product briefly (and wish I hadn't sold it!), and he used a mouth-closing wedge like the John Green plane that you linked to on Joel's site.