MM16 or Laguna HD16

[Thomas Rudolph]

I'm in a delima about which bandsaw to purchase! I've heard pro's and con's about each. There are designs and features about each of them that I like, but I'm having a hard time deciding. I would like some feedback from SMC members who have knowledge of either of these two fine pieces of equipment. Thank-you

[Jim Becker]

The new version of the MM16, an already great product, ups the anti between these two. And despite the rhetoric that will likely flow about this feature and that feature, I still find MM to be a nicer company to do business with. The saw itself is just plain massive in structure...even more so now with the heavier spine to support the 16 resaw height. I have the MM16, two generations removed, and would not part with it.

Both machines you are considering are good tools...find out from users how they truely feel about the companies' support and service. Visit the dedicated Internet forums for each in that respect, too...

[Karl Laustrup]

Thomas, I have the LT-16HD, albeit last years model. While I have not had the opportunity to use another BS, it would have to be much better for me to switch.

The new LT-16HD is even better than mine. More HP, more resaw.

My two cents.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Thomas,

I have seen the LT-16 in person more than once. I can tell you that it is one sweet saw! I have not been able to see a MM in person. I have seen the resaw results of the LT-16 and I can tell you I was quite impressed!

[Dan Racette]

I compared the two models at the des moines woodworking show and determined that the MM16 was better for me.

Lacking on the MM16, maybe??, was no baldor motor, however it was a very nice Italian motor, not taiwan.

I like the MM16's construction and sturdiness better. I like the tires on the MM16 better. I could change my own tire on the MM16, and the tires seemed to be cheaper.

The customer service from Laguna's Larry Marley was great but the staff at both shows that I saw them at was terrible.

All cust. service from MM was great. My needs we simply met better by the MM16, but it may be different for you.

[Ted Shrader]

Thomas -

Though you will be well served by either, put my vote in the MiniMax column. I have the last version of the MM16 (not the current w/ 4.6HP). It is well constructed and sturdy. I was able to pick one up at the end of last year on sale when they were getting ready for the new models.

When it came, I did all the usual new tools stuff. Clean, wax, adjust, etc. Made a few test cuts. Very pleased with the result. The other day, I actually used it for the first time. Man what a great machine. Smooth, quiet, exceptionally stable. Very happy with the MM16.

During shipping the heavy table hit one of the lower blade guide adjustment knurled screws and dinged the threads up. I was able to clean it up with a riffler file, but it was still a little hard to turn. They sent me a whole new lower blade guide assembly to make the repair.

Call and ask for Sam Blasco (a member here). He will hook you up.

Regards,
Ted

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I have a mm16 so naturally I think its a better saw than the Laguna. Both have been updated so the comparisons I made three years ago may no longer hold true, but the mm16 was more powerful and better (sturdier) built than the Laguna. On the other hand, I think we (me especially) overanalyze these tools purchases, either way you're getting a heck of a saw.

[Thomas Rudolph]

Thank-you for the affimations! Some of the things I like about the Laguna 16HD are
1. easy tilt table mechanism
2. bronze plated acme thread on upper wheel tensioning mechanism
3. rack-n-pinion guide post
4. two position fence (also cast iron available)
5. heavy bristle wheel brush
6. powder coated finish (very nice)
7. glued on tire with small crown (good for smaller blades)
8. "AMERICAN MADE" Baldor motor (60Hz vs. 50Hz European)

Mini Max 16
1.Guide post is locked into place with a gib
2. Heavier steel backbone...more cast iron

[Steve Wargo]

Don't forget about the superior guide system on the Laguna. The engineering doesn't lie. The guide system on the Laguna is exceptional. But the European guide systems are still head and shoulders above the Jet, delta, etc. systems. Either saw and you'll be pleased. Just my $.02

[Ken Garlock]

Thank-you for the affimations! Some of the things I like about the Laguna 16HD are
1. easy tilt table mechanism
2. bronze plated acme thread on upper wheel tensioning mechanism
3. rack-n-pinion guide post
4. two position fence (also cast iron available)
5. heavy bristle wheel brush
6. powder coated finish (very nice)
7. glued on tire with small crown (good for smaller blades)
8. "AMERICAN MADE" Baldor motor (60Hz vs. 50Hz European)

Mini Max 16
1.Guide post is locked into place with a gib
2. Heavier steel backbone...more cast iron

First off, welcome to the creek, Thomas. I am also an MM16 owner of 1 1/2 years.

Let us look at your "features on the Laguna
1. Easy tilt table, don't know, I set my MM16 to level and 90 deg. to the blade, and haven't changed it.
2. Bronze plated Acme thread. IMO, not a feature. Bronze is not as hard as steel. You need a screw mechanism that will resist wear, the harder the better.
3. Rack & Pinion blade guide. I just checked my MM16, and it has what I regard as a rack & pinion adjustment.
4. Two position fence. Guess I don't understand that. My MM16 has a cast iron fence that can be set to compensate for blade drift.
5. Stiffer wheel brush. I don't know, but assuming you have a good dust collector, that is NBD.
6. Powder coated frame. I can't say with unqualified certainty, but my MM16 paint job surely looks good, and hasn't been a problem for me.
7. Glued on tires. Not a good feature, IMO. The MM16 has tires that run a groove off set toward the front of the wheel.
8. American made motor. Yes, a feature. OTOH, I haven't heard or anyone having problems with the Italian motors. Who ever told you that the MM16 had 50 Hz motor did not know what they were talking about.

Ask yourself why at the WW shows Mini Max as a BS with the name plate covered as comparison to their product. At least at the Dallas show, it was a Laguna I was told.

Regarding customer service, Mini Max is outstanding. In the 1.5 years I have had my MM16, I have gotten at least 3 "out of the blue" calls from Mini Max to inquire as to how I liked the saw, and if there was anything I needed. No, it was not a sales pitch, just a call to make sure I was happy with the MM16.

Yes, I am prejudice. I am sure that you will be happy with either BS, and I will not hold it against you if you buy a Laguna :eek: :D :D

Once again, welcome to the Creek. Do visit us often, it is a fine group of people, if you disregard grouches like me. :o

[Thomas Rudolph]

Gentlemen!...A decision has been made! After recieving in-depth pictures from Mini Max on the "guts" of the MM16. The upper wheel tensioning assembly as well as the cast iron guide post assembly, compared to the Laguna 16HD. The MM16 wins out...delivery will be in about 3 weeks. Again...thanks for all your input. Glad to be a new member of SMC!!

[Paul B. Cresti]

Tom,
Welcome to the Creek. There simply is no comparison between the ACM (Laguna, Felder, Bridgewood, Hammer) saw, Agazzani, Meber and the MiniMax (Centauro). I just do not care what marketing hype they tell you. The MM IS built STIFFER (thicker steel), HEAVIER, MORE RIGID GUIDE POST (1.25" vs 3/4"), a very high quality ITALIAN motor, all this and more make the MM the clear winner. Those are some of the facts. MM as a company has the BEST customer service I have ever experienced, my opinion based upon real world experience. If you are willing and have them means to do it, there is not a better bandsaw than the MiniMax.

[Steven Wilson]

Don't forget about the superior guide system on the Laguna. The engineering doesn't lie. The guide system on the Laguna is exceptional. But the European guide systems are still head and shoulders above the Jet, delta, etc. systems. Either saw and you'll be pleased. Just my $.02 If you really, really, have to have Laguna's blade rubbing guide system on a saw you can purchase it for other makes. Question what do you use to sharpen a blade? Ceramic. Why do I want ceramic rubbing on my bandsaw blade? Case hardening. IMNHO the Laguna guides are a solution looking for a problem. Well set up euro or Carter guides work very well.

[Michael Perata]

MM 16 owner here.

One thing I would change: a better tilt mechanism for the table, and one thing I will change: will be installing Carter guides later this summer.

Two things I wouldn't change: Customer service and the support of the MMUG.

[Ted Shrader]

Thomas -

Congratulations. You will be very pleased. Have someone there to help you uncrate it and get it off the pallet. Oh - and that same someone can takes some pictures.

Ted

[Jim Becker]

One thing I would change: a better tilt mechanism for the table.
The current version(s) have a much better tilt system than mine! (But I almost never tilt it anyway) That was a change they made concurrent with the 14" resaw height and they are actually related--the "new" trunion/table mount was lowered. As far as I know, that design continues with the new 16" resaw height version.

[John Scarpa]

Thomas,
Excellent choice! Yes I'm another MM16 owner. Mine is a few generations back like Jim's. My only regret? Didn't have room for a bigger one. :D

Have fun with it.

John

[Jim Andrew]

I must have bought the last '04 model MM had left, just received it last
week. Don't even have it running yet, they said I need a 30 amp circuit
with#10 wire to the machine, and don't have it in yet, so have not fired it
up yet. Really impressed with the weight and look of the machine. Also,
got them to throw in the cool blocks and the circle cutter for the sale price.
Doesn't hurt to ask. Jim

[lou sansone]

tom

I do currently have the laguna lt 24 and it is really a pretty good saw. As you have seen here @ the creek there is definitly a preference for the mm16. Looking at (MM) their equipment on their web site it does seem that their BS's are heavier than the laguna saws. I am not all that sure it matters as much as some posts seem to indicate, but that is the fun of this type of forum. People and guys in particular like to say "mine is bigger and better". Hey that is fine with me. At this point I can say that the laguna 24 runs really pretty good. If I had it to do over again, and I was to buy a modern saw, ( and I might ) I would probably buy the MM 32" or the 34". I would probably be more tempted to look for a used moak, northfield or tannewitz 36" machine. But we digress

good luck and best wishes
lou

[Thomas Rudolph]

Gentlemen...thanks once again for taking the time to respond to this posting, what a great forum you have at SMC. Look forward to being a part of it in the future. I'll send pics of the uncrating!!

[mike lucas]

I have an 1995 LT18, and my Brother has an 1998 MM18, my Laguna is at least twice the machine as the Mini Max one. I know you can't compare a machine from 7-10 years ago to the ones made today. But I have seen the brand new ones from this year of both companies. And from what I have seen, Mini Max has caught up pretty much, but by no means have they surpassed Laguna.

If I were buying one of these saws today, it would be another Laguna.

By the way, my Brother says the same thing, he too would buy a Laguna. Everyone has there own favorite tool, brand, or whatever. I say to you, that you should send for an information packet from both companies, as well as a couple others, then if possible, go to a tool show that has both brands. You may even be able to find a local shop that has one of these saws so you can try them first hand.

Regardless of which one of the two you decide to purchase, you should be happy for a few decades!

[Steven Wilson]

MM18????? Do you happen to mean an S45. I don't think they were importing the Centauro bandsaws then. IIRC they had their own S45 bandsaw and yes it's much lighter duty than the MM16, MM20, MM24, MM32, MM36 bandsaws made for MiniMax by Centauro.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Mike,
No such thing as an MM18 & back then MiniMax only had one saw the S45 and it is no where near the MM (Centauro) line of these days. Second what are you looking at? If you look at pretty graphics and hyped up guide system then I guess you can say the Laguna (the lighter of the ACM line and that is a fact) is nicer. If you look at strength (steel thickness), beam strength (due to increase in steel thickness), an absolutely massive tensioning mechanism along with a 1-1/4" guide post vs the 1", overall weight (which means smoother operation in a bandsaw), etc... then guess who wins, ....MM, no contest. Not quite sure what you deem as important in a bandsaw I guess :confused:

[Gene Wilson]

I am getting ready to purchase my first and probably my last bandsaw. I've been reading the post here with great interest. I have narrowed my choices down to the Laguna HD16 or the MM16. I'm leaning towards the MM16. In my research I have come across this article:

http://woodcentral.com.ldh0138.uslec.net/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=reviews&file=articles_437.shtml

My question is, have any of you MM16 owners expericenced the fit and finish issues mentioned in the review. Also, the fence system? Have any of these been addressed by MiniMax.
I would be very interested in hearing your comments.

Thanks, Gene Wilson

[Richard Wolf]

Gene, I have a MM 20. My saw was perfect when delivered. All bolts were tight, no rust, blade tracked well. One washer on the lower blade guide had to be removed to allow enough adjustment for large blades. Other people have had issues, and some of those people had difficult times correcting those issues. I think you have a great chance of getting the help you need from MM as opposed to other manufactures. I think alot also has to do with your expectations. Just because you are spend large amounts of money for a commercial size bandsaw don't expect that you will not have to tweak some areas. I think that the mentality of European machine manufactures, is that if you buy one of these machines you should be able to maintain and adjust it on your own. I think this is why the instruction manuals stink. Luckily for us, there are support groups online, (MiniMax owers group on yahoo) that should be able to help with almost any question that comes up. There is also a downloadable manual there to help you set up the saw.
The Laguna ia also a great saw and when I purchased my MM I looked hard at the Laguna, I needed a copy lathe at the same time and the MM fit into my needs better. I am very happy I decided to go with MM.

Richard

[Ted Shrader]

Gene -

Note that the WC article was writen in 2003 - see the very bottom.

I had none of the problem he encountered when I received my MM16 in early 2005. It is one of the second generation machines and was on sale prior to the release of the latest version. I am still amazed every time I turn it on and use it. Great machine!

Regards,
Ted

[Jim Becker]

My MM16 (two generations back from the current model) has been outstanding. And the fence is dead-on. The one you will be buying will have greater resaw, more power and the new design table tilt system which is more convenient than the one I have. (Not an issue for me since I very rarely tilt a bandsaw table...)

[nic obie]

Like Jim, I own one of the first generation MM 16's. Unlike Jim, I had a few problems, crooked fence and a bad switch. After talking to my salesman on the phone the parts came in 4 days. Minimax paid for all the shipping. These guys are great to deal with and I'm looking forward to dealing with them again. (Jim Strain darn near had me walking out of the Vegas show with a jointer/planner, but that's another story :D ). If you buy the MM I'm sure you'll be very happy. You would probably be happy with the Laguna HD too. I just think you would be happier with the Minimax.

I always get in trouble for saying this, but as to Laguna's blade guide system, I Just don't see the point. They can't handle small blades either. If you must use ceramic rubbing guides you can always buy MM's optional guide holders. They work with anything 1/2" round including 'cool block' type of material.

[Gene Wilson]

Thanks for responding. Ted, I did see that the review was a couple of years old. I'm hoping that with this new model I won't see any of the issues mentioned in the review and have an experience like you did Richard. I know that any machine can come out of the crate with problems. Then it's how the company deals with you that is very important. I have spoken to both companies. Both were very friendly and helpful, the guy from Mini Max went into full detail about everything and really knew his machine. I had a hard time gettin' him off the phone! So, this bears out all the praise on customer service. I'm probably going to order the MM16 this week. :D I'll let you know how I make out.

Thanks, Gene Wilson

[Keith Weber]

Wow! What a heated debate! I think that the bottom line is that both companies make very good saws and each have very happy customers. I don't think you'd go wrong with either saw. I didn't have to think too hard to make my decision. I bought the LT16 because I felt it offered the best price/performance ratio for what I needed. MM did not have a similar saw (3 hp, 12" resaw) for the $1300 that I paid.

Keith

[Marc Spagnuolo]

I have one of the newer MM16s. The saw performs quite well and is just a super solid piece of equipment. The customer service has been excellent as well. not to mention, the saw arrived in under a week!! I couldnt believe it. Here is my only complaint from my personal experience. After setting up the saw, I noticed that the fence was bowed slightly (about 1/16" low in the center). The fence also did not sit 90 degrees to the table. Now keep in mind, I am not a really picky person when it comes to setting up my equipment. I am not a feel guage type of guy. So the error here was quite obvious. I actually wound up taking the fence to a local machine shop for regrinding. I faxed the bill to MiniMax and they payed for it, no problem. Once I put the fence back on the saw, I still had a problem with the fence not being 90 deg. to the table in some areas. Of course, this means the table is not exactly flat. Uggh. At that point, I was a little frustrated and didnt bother having the table ground flat. Since I usually cut veneer by placing side pressure on the fence, I just make sure my fence is perfectly paralell with the blade, regardless of whether the fence is perfectly perpindicular to the table. C
Could have been an isolated incident, but do yourself a favor and double check all these things.

The machine is awesome otherwise.

[Dan Larson]

To add some balance to this thread, I'll chime in here.

I have a new Laguna LT18. Is it better than the MM16? Don't know, but I can vouch for the fact that the LT18 is a fine cutting tool. The other day I resawed a 10" wide cherry board using a Resaw King blade. My 1/4" thick slices were all (+) or (-) 0.003" across the 3 foot length. I can also vouch for the fact that Laguna's customer service is very good, too.


Dan