Lee Valley Blade & Chip Breaker issue

[Don Dorn]

I'm hoping for some advise. While I've had quite a few years experience with hand planes, I'm having an issue with the new Lee Valley iron and chip breakers I ordered for a #6 & #8. I've used the LV irons before on a #3 and 5 1/4 but they had Hock breakers. They work, but there is very little room at the mouth.

With the #6 and 8,I can't seem to get them to work. If I place the blade and breaker in at the same frog adjustment as the Stanley iron and breaker, there is no room at the front of the mouth. If I move the frog back, the blade will not come out of the mouth at all and wants to close at the front above the mouth. I can see that I would have to file the mouth, but I'm reluctant because it looks like it would have to be done a great deal to make them work.

If it's any help, the #6 is a type 13 and the #8 is a type 19. Any ideas would be appreciated because I'd like to have them work as opposed to sending them back.

[glenn bradley]

Detailed pics will get you more and better responses to a question of this type :)

[David Weaver]

Surprised on planes as late as those that you'd have an issue.

But if you're sure the fit is too tight, I'd file the mouth. Just take a machinists square or a combination square and mark it from both sides (in case the mouth isn't square to the sides). File a little bit at a time until you get enough room, and then just very lightly go around the mouth and check to make sure there are no burrs.

As far as what you use to mark it, I use a hardened steel or carbide scribe because I have them around. If you don't, anything you have around that's hardened steel should do the trick, though if it's carbon steel, you'll have some touch up to do after you do the marking.

I use dykem to mark the area in front of the mouth before I scribe. It makes it VERY easy to see the scribe line. red magic marker would be fine, too. You can do it however you'd like to, but I always scribe the line about where I think I'll end up and use it as a visual cue to keep the filing amount uniform. If you only have to file halfway there, there's nothing wrong with that - leaving the scribe line does no harm and it'll eventually get worn off in use, anyway.

I'd hate to see you send back a perfectly good product.

[Jack Curtis]

With companies like LV and LN, it's easier to call them and explain the problem. Rob hangs around here from time to time, most likely he'll chime in accordingly.

Jack

[Joe Bailey]

I recently went through this with the same blade (though I put it into a 4 1/2). I had to open the mouth. It sounded like a bigger project than it turned out to be. I suggest the following approach: mark the area ahead of the mouth (farthest from the frog) with a marker or machinist's dye. Then, using a square, scribe a line to define the new mouth. If at all possible, use a file with at least one safe edge, to avoid chewing up the ends of the mouth closest to the cheeks of the plane body. It is well worth the effort.

[Don Dorn]

Thanks for the replies,

David, if we lived closer, I'd buy you a beer. I wasn't completely clear in that I didn't even try the #8 because the #6 didn't work and if I sent them back, I didn't want to open the 2 5/8" iron and breaker.

I did as you said and filed about 1/16 or slightly more on the #6 and it was enough that I could still see enough light in front of the blade. It came through the mouth fine and works like a champ. With that done, I grabbed the #8 and installed the LV equipment and discovered that no modification was necessary. Both are performing like the premium planes I hoped they would - Thank you.
Don

[David Weaver]

Glad it worked out.

You'll appreciate how much better that iron is than the stock iron if you use the plane heavily.

[Rob Lee]

Hi Don -

I'm late to party... with nothing to contribute now.... :)

Glad it worked out for you... don't hesitate to write or phone our service staff.... if people don't use 'em, I'll have to let 'em all go....! (no - not really!)

Cheers -

Rob

[Jim Koepke]

This thread is of interest to me since I have two #6 planes that I use a lot.

One, a type 4, has a Stanley blade and there is barely enough room in the mouth. That plane is only used for light cuts.

The other is a type 9 fitted with a Hock blade. The mouth didn't need modification. It doesn't open wide, but wide enough for heavy shavings.

My biggest problem with after market blades is they seem to stay sharp longer but then they need more work to get back to a sharp edge.

It's always something.


I suggest the following approach: mark the area ahead of the mouth (farthest from the frog) with a marker or machinist's dye. Then, using a square, scribe a line to define the new mouth. If at all possible, use a file with at least one safe edge, to avoid chewing up the ends of the mouth closest to the cheeks of the plane body. It is well worth the effort.

This is mostly a matter of personal preference. My preference it to only put a bevel on the front of the mouth. If material needs to be removed to enlarge the mouth, my choice is to see if it can be removed from the back of the mouth. The reason for this is most of the time there is plenty of room for movement of the frog to the back of the mouth. If it doesn't get too tight with the lateral lever against the tote, then it is my preference to remove metal from the back of the mouth.

Check your work often. It is amazing how fast the metal comes off and how little you actually need to remove.

No matter whether you remove metal from the front or the back of the mouth, smooth the sharp edges. For some reason wood shavings seem to be able to find the nicks, nooks and crannies left behind and clog the mouth while planing.

jtk

[David Weaver]

One other side comment of this, since i'm a front mouth filer (and never filed a plane until I was forced to making a couple of ugly infills). I like to do the front, and do it accurately marking with a machinist scribe and with as much squareness as possible - and that is because I want the mouth surface to be in contact with the wood as long as possible before it hits the iron. Best way to do that is to have a fresh edge that is crisp and parallel along the length with the edge of the iron. A nice mouth size for a plane that only smooths is in the ballpark of .004".

All of that said, if much filing is done to the mouth, and the chipbreaker contacts with the mouth before you have it as close to the edge as you want, you can file a relief bevel inside the plane on the front of the mouth (i.e., up inside the casting).

On my infill panel kit, I neglected to do that before I put the bun in, and now I can't do it, and I can't advance the second iron all the way to the edge of the iron because it bangs into the mouth. That's a real downer when you're in something where the second iron could be beneficial. Lesson learned early on, but still basically permanent (I don't want to subject the inside of the thing to flying slag from a dremel tool).