Is a Little Fear Good Around Some Machines?

[Kev Godwin]

I'll admit it, I have a little apprehension or perhaps a little fear of a few machines in my shop. I have some hesitation when using my TS, and compound miter saw; and lesser concern for the router table, jointer, planer, band saw and drill press. (I'm not a lathe guy.)

20 years ago I watched my father have a really bad kick-back on his TS and had to go to the hospital with a puncture wound to his side. Ever since then, I have tended to work much slower and more carefully. I'm not saying I'm afraid of any equipment and I certainly don't get the shakes either. I do worry about what could happen though. (My wife hates it that I work alone since she saw what happened to my father too.)

Am I alone in having slight hesitation? Could slight fear be considered to be a safety mechanism?
Kev

[Jim Laumann]

Kevin

You are not alone - My $.02 - yes - it is a safety mechanism.

It makes a person (me) think about those steel cutters which feel no pain, and those soft-fleshy parts of me that do feel pain when there is a collision of the two.

Having experienced that collision, and fortunately came away with only a scar, I am very cautious now when it comes to setup of my machines/tools.

Jim

[Don Morris]

Not only a little fear, I treat my TS and several pieces of equipment as if they are dangerous. The jointer for instance. I feel that if I treat them with caution, I'll be better off. It's the old: engage brain before using.... However you want to think about it. It can't hurt if you do...it can hurt if you don't.

[Jim Matthews]

Listen to your fear, that's your commonsense making a phone call.

The bandsaw presents little risk to catching loose clothing, and pulling you into a spinning mechanism.
If you're aware of where put your thumb on your free hand, the compound miter saw is a low risk device. It doesn't do anything for me that I can't do with a handsaw.

The jointer is an interesting problem - you push down over the rotating knives. If push blocks are used, your risk over falling into the works is low.

FWIW - This same sentiment you voice is leading many of us to unplug our shops. I retain a big bandsaw, circular saw (with edge guide), planer and jointer.
I'm thinking very hard about ditching the planer and jointer.

I think you're right on the beam on this one - much like driving a motorcycle, nonchalance begets accidents.

[glenn bradley]

The saying "respect the machine" directly translates to "fear the machine" in my mind. We are talking a healthy respect/fear here, not a child's fear of the monster in the closet. Being reasonably intelligent, we know what a moments distraction can do. The machine doesn't jump up and grab you, you create a scenario that feeds "you" into the stationary machine. BTW, all the machines you list deserve equal amounts of respect. Folks who say things like "a bandsaw is safer" are either using their other tools incorrectly (read unsafely) or have never been to the butcher shop. Different tools are safer/better for different tasks. Tasks done on all can be dangerous, just like driving a car is dangerous if performed incorrectly. Embrace your respect/fear and keep your body parts. ;-) Becoming jaded through repetition or getting "comfortable" around a machine leads to the saddening posts on injury we sometimes see. Proper machine maintenance and use will yield many happy years in the shop.

[Victor Robinson]

I'll admit I find myself holding my breath on some operations...particularly at the router table. A healthy respect and/or hesitation is probably a good thing. A paralyzing fear is, of course, not good.

[Larry Browning]

I think respect is also a good word as well. When I respect something (not someone), it means that if I do something stupid it will make me pay EVERY TIME. I can count on it. That statement applies to someone as well, but not quite in the same way as a machine.

BTW: I had not seen Glenn's post when I wrote mine. He said it better.

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

I picked up a TS a couple of weeks ago from a fellow creeker who happened to show me where the tips of 3 of his fingers were missing from a jointer accident. When we got to talking about it, he told me that it was one of those "I am just going to make a quick cut then go inside" things. Well, he did not use his push pads. When the work piece splintered, his left hand went into the blades.

Not only do you need to respect dangerous tools, you also have to fight the danger of becoming complacent using them. He still has the drips of blood on his floor as a reminder.

[David Helm]

It may be semantics, but I think fear can be a paralyzing thing. Respect is, to me, a much more appropriate approach. Fear can be a way to get into trouble with machines. Follow the rule (my rule at least) of "engaging the brain prior to pushing the start button".

[Scott Vigder]

A little fear goes a long way. The TS blade always commands my full attention. I use products such as GR-Rippers to minimize my exposure. Ditto at the router table. I nicked myself once on the router table several years ago making a "quick" cut, and I remember it like it was yesterday. What seemed like a lot of blood at the time has served as a constant reminder of the power in our tools.

[Karl Card]

like a wise old man once told me, if you are never nerveous, never afraid, you are way to cocky. Not saying you have to show your emotions but know you have them and control how people see them makes you normal.

[John Lanciani]

I'll take the contrary side. In my opinion fear in and of itself is a dangerous thing, especially around things that can get you hurt. If you're afraid of something you're always going to be thinking about any or all of the bad things that could happen, thus distracting yourself while you plan an escape route instead of focusing 100% on the task at hand. I don't feel like I'm bragging or trying to be "manly" when I say that I'm not the least bit afraid of any of my machines (or the 115kV electrical equipment that I work on and around daily, either). I understand each and every one of them completely and I fully accept the consequences that may arrise if I have a lapse in judgement or concentration. I've certainly had my share of close calls and I learn from each of them and move forward. My belief is that if you're afraid of your machines it's time to sell them and move on, life is too short to worry that much.

[Mark Engel]

It may be semantics, but I think fear can be a paralyzing thing. Respect is, to me, a much more appropriate approach. Fear can be a way to get into trouble with machines. Follow the rule (my rule at least) of "engaging the brain prior to pushing the start button".

This is my thought as well. Respect for what these machines can do to you if you are not always on your guard is what keeps me on my toes.

What John says is appropriate. If you are too afraid of the machines you are using, you should stop using them. If you don't respect the power and potential of those machines that is another reason to find another hobby or vocation.

[John T Barker]

I've always thought one should feel about woodworking machines the way they do about something like a car. I occasionally feel fear when I am driving...icy roads, heavy rain/bad visibility. I drive more cautiously. I don't fear my machines during normal use but I recognize what can happen if I mess up. Rarely I find myself doing something that is new and/or represents a hazard. I feel some fear and I either change my methodology, proceed with excessive caution or just not do it. I often will feel fear when I am about to use a machine and I am feeling tired. Again I do something about the feeling. I feel it is not a good thing to use a machine I fear all the time.

The only accident I've had is a kick back many years ago when my employer directed me to make a cut in a way I would not normally. He way an idiot...and so was I for listening to him.

John

[Mike Cutler]

Healthy respect, but not fear. If you truly are afraid of a particular machine, find another solution.
For the table saw, replace it with a slider. Mount the miter saw in a nice cabinet with wings and use positive stops and clamps.
You have to be relaxed and comfortable around a machine in order to maximize it's, and your, potential. Purely fear will hold you back, and also possible make you more unsafe.
Just my opinion.

[Anthony Whitesell]

My father always told me "tools can't tell the different between you and what there supposed to cut". So, yeah, I'm nervous every time I turn on a switch.

P.S. This was before the sawstop, and that can only barely tell.

[Greg Peterson]

Semantics. Fear or respect. Every time I use a machine I try to figure out the myriad ways the operation can go catywompus and be ever vigilant for the slightest hint of something not according to plan.

I think this dovetails nicely into the recent thread were the question was how do have someone interrupt you in the shop.

If you get startled by someone trying to get your attention in the shop, you are probably paying due attention to the task at hand. I take this as a good sign.

BTW, I have a window on my pocket door into the shop where the wife can see if I am at least at the table saw before coming in.

[Cody Colston]

The machine only does what it is designed to do. If you fear it, even a little, it is because you are not confident in your ability to correctly operate it.

I don't fear any of my machines because, as the operator, I am in control. I do understand that I can get hurt if I make a mistake. That's why I pay attention.

[Neil Brooks]

Yeah. Semantics.

When I approach any power tool in my shop -- just as I do before I throw a leg over my motorcycle -- I make it a point to simply pause and ponder.

I never want it to be a no-thought-required, habitual thing, no matter how long I've done it. I take a second to figure out the plan ... body positioning ... the potential problems, and how to avoid them ... and to simply "take stock" of my frame of mind.

It's sort of a pilot's checklist, but ... it runs pretty quickly. There are certainly times, though, when the "go/no-go" decision has resulted in me flicking off the lights, and leaving the shop, or ... putting off the motorcycle ride for another day.

I'd like to think that ... in those decisions ... I might have avoided some nasty outcomes :)

[Anthony Whitesell]

You're right I don't fear the machine. I fear what may happen if something goes awry.

It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the bottom.

[Tom Walz]

I agree with comments about fear but it works for me.

Woodworking tools, Guns, knives, stray dogs, cars, drunks, chainsaws, etc. I respect their potential for damage.

I haven't been trained and trained myself to fear them. Ever time I turn on a table saw, etc. ther is a little flash of fear. It reminds me to be very careful.

[Kevin Presutti]

With those of us who happen to work with these machines on a regular basis the first thing to be etched into to our brains is "These machines are by design are inherently dangerous!" With that said, we now must have the utmost respect for each and every machine and the dangers they possess. None of us wakes up in the morning and say "Gee I think I'll have a car accident" anymore than we plan on being injured in the shop. Knowing the machine you are running, keeping it in top notch shape, staying focused at what you are doing, and just a little fear will go along way in keeping you safe. I know myself that everytime I go to set up the TS I think check everyting, have I forgotten anything, and always pay attention to what you are doing. I will forego the usual saftey glasses, push stick, lose clothing, etc. that just goes without saying. Repeat these precautions everytime and saftey just becomes almost as natural as breathing and I sure many of you have some other things to add that I have not mentioned but some basics that are practiced regularly should give those of us who are constantly thinking saftey an increased edge in warding off some accident. Remember if you think "Is this safe?" it probably isn't. There are many here who will tell you to LISTEN to that little voice in your head, it may just keep you counting to 10. Be safe! :D

[Terry Beadle]

After a couple of really fun kick backs, two of which left some blood on the floor ( ...if you call me a slow learner, I'll order a tshirt with that on it proudly..hoot! ), I've changed my approach to any cutting on the TS or RAS. I put a hold down in at least one edge position and most times in two. That has eliminated all kick backs so far. I keep a couple of clamps and some really square boards handy so it takes just a couple of minutes to secure the board. The hold down boards are just scraps. I do have a grabber and use it liberally. I have shop made push sticks too and use them every time.

I'm keeping my fingers. It's that simple.

[Jerome Hanby]

I agree with the respect and caution not fear. To me fear goes before some stupid action the way pride goes before a fall... I'd say if you have fear of some action that's the signal to figure out some other way of getting the job done.

[Chris Parks]

So many of us teach ourselves to use the equipment we have in our workshops it is no wonder there are accidents and "fear" amongst the woodworking community. I don't understand being afraid of a machine and never have. Kick backs on a TS for instance are for the most part caused by bad technique or misunderstanding the equipment and how to best set it up to minimise the possibility of a kick back. How many who have suffered a kick back have taken the time to figure out how it happened or how to minimise the risk in future? Fear is all about the lack of knowledge, how much knowledge do those who fear their machines actually have? I pick on kickback because it seems such an issue and there is a simple answer, a half fence just about eliminates it. Do those who have suffered the results of a kick back ever tried it? My point being that maybe a bit of research would have uncovered ways to ensure that a kickback will not be repeated.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I didn't respect my table saw enough, and now I have a big L-shaped scar on my forehead. Whoops!

I think I learned my lesson though.

Here's my respect ranking for the major machines in my shop:

1. Tablesaw

2. Jointer. The idea of grinding the ends of my fingers off is horrifying frankly... I've met more people with jointer injuries than tablesaw injuries, actually... I'm currently working out plans to put a power feeder on my jointer/planer machine and it's going to cost me a good chunk of change. But I think it's a worthwhile safety upgrade. I also want to modify the euro guard so that it always keeps the cutterhead covered while edge jointing.

3. Router table. You can really easily do something stupid on the router table. People often don't use push sticks and push pads, and often times to do something safely, you need to make a jig with hold-downs to hold the work pieces. These things take time so it's easy to circumvent proper safety procedures.

4. Bandsaw. I probably should be more scared of my bandsaw.

5. Miter saw.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I have a lot of respect for my machines, in the fear of what they can do to me if something goes wrong.

[Tom Clark FL]

When I was very young, my father showed me around the machine shop where he worked. He also showed me a glass jar that had a severed finger in it. Now I can't help but remember that bottle every time I walk up to my bandsaw…

Shortly after getting into woodworking 30 years ago a friend cut off part of three fingers on his tablesaw. Instead of using a push stick he used his irreplaceable fingers. Bad choice. Right after that I was in a far-east shop in Atlanta, and saw these wooden dragons. For some reason the teeth of the dragon reminded me of my friend whose hand was still healing. I bought the thing and hung it over my tablesaw, where it has been ever since. Woodworking is a super hobby, but a little fear is a good thing to keep you mind in the right place.

I'm happy to say that after a lifetime of working in machine shops, and 30 years as a woodworker, I still have all my body parts. Keep your mind on what you are doing and you'll be fine! Best of luck.

[Mike Cruz]

Personally, I don't think fear of/or while using a machine is good at all. Respect for that machine...THAT is good. I feel that fear of a machine will/might make you hesitant, self doubting, and unsure. Those are not qualities, in my opinion, that make for confident safe use of a machine. If a machine is used properly, kickbacks and such shouldn't happen. That said, I'm not saying that your father was lazy, complacent, or sloppy. And I'm not saying that I've never had kickbacks, catches, and scary moments. Respect for a tool whether it is a hammer, a chisel, a jointer, or a table saw, is what I believe is the best mind set for use of that tool. Complacency and fear of a tool/machine are your worse enemies...

It is said in the horse world, that when something bad happens, it is not the horses fault, it is the person's. Mainly because almost all the time, there is something that the person could have done to prevent what happened. I think the same is true with wwing machines. It isn't the machines fault, it is ours...it was something that we did wrong, or something we could have done to prevent the accident that happened. Whenever I have an "oops" moment, I most often follow it by "now that was stupid...".

And THAT said, there is one machine in the shop that I don't love using...the shaper. I've had large bits grab the wood right out of my hand...and I know there was nothing I could have done to hold on to it. BUT the reason it was grabbed was because I didn't know the machine well enough to know what I should or shouldn't do, or I wasn't being aware enough of the grain direction, etc, etc.

Respect of the machine. Comfort with using it, respecting it, and not being complacent. I think that is the formula... My two cents...

[ed vitanovec]

I think respect and cautious verses fear when using power tools. I've had a few minor cuts using the Table Saw, Router Table, Bandsaw and Edge Sander, I consider myself very lucky. I do exercise caution when using my tools and I try not to rush when it gets late and I'm tired, know when to call it quites....its just not worth the risk. Also make sure the blades you are using are sharp and in good condition, when these get dull it takes more effort and that is where trouble can happen. I think the tool I get nervious using the most is the shaper with a 5" diameter raised panel cutter, especially if I'm doing an arched top on a narrow board. I have a sliding table saw and I think this has helped me alot as far as safety goes. I never kept my blade guard on my unisaw and I would make narrow rip cuts, now I won't dare to do this.

[James W Engle]

In 1969 I took a machine woodworking class in college. We were instructed that the jointer was the most dangerous tool in the shop. I believe it. They all need a great deal of respect.

[Mike Cruz]

James I've said this many times on this forum and I'll say it again. My old boss told me this advice when I started working for him:

If you cut your fingers off on the table saw, we might get lucky, find your fingers, and get them sewn back on. But with the jointer, you can't make potatos out of potato chips...

I think of that every time I get on the jointer...

[Pat Barry]

I read a lot of comments where fear was mentioned. If you are actually afraid of your tools then you need more training or you need to find another hobby. I believe if you actually fear your tool you are going to get bitten. If you know how to use the tools properly then there should not be fear but awareness. No, not respect, awareness. Respect is a term that should be reserved for people, not tools. Awareness of what your tool is doing and awareness of what can happen and what is likely to go wrong. Use your tools properly, with awareness of their capabilities, then plan your work so it is done safely - again, if you think it out, and do it properly, there is nothing to fear.

[Mike Cruz]

Yes, respect. Awareness, yes, too. Maybe your definition of respect is different than mine, but I find respect a perfectly accurate word to describe the feeling you have/the way you handle/address your machine. I do see how awareness might give the same result as what I would call respect.

[Mike Konobeck]

I was just searching the web after I just experienced my first scary situation on a bandsaw. I was trying to cut a log the round way and it caught the piece and rolled it. Essentially kick back which I thought was impossible on the bandsaw. Luckily no accidents but did wreck a nice new blade. I really didn't think it through and just threw another blade on and thought I was just not holding it tight enough. Did the same thing. Blade #2 is now in the garbage but I have all 10 fingers and no blood was drawn. I have never had the appropriate respect for the bandsaw until tonight. Everyone says it is the "safest" tool in the shop. I beg to differ since the teeth are exposed and you are always working right around them. Especially when resawing and you have 8-10" of open teeth staring at you before you start the cut.

My point is I was flat out stupid and didn't think it through. Lesson learned but even fear is not enough sometimes. Experience is the best teacher most of the time but in woodworking there isn't much room for mistakes through experience. It could have been MUCH worse.

[Chris Parks]

I was just searching the web after I just experienced my first scary situation on a bandsaw. I was trying to cut a log the round way and it caught the piece and rolled it. Essentially kick back which I thought was impossible on the bandsaw. Luckily no accidents but did wreck a nice new blade. I really didn't think it through and just threw another blade on and thought I was just not holding it tight enough. Did the same thing. Blade #2 is now in the garbage but I have all 10 fingers and no blood was drawn. I have never had the appropriate respect for the bandsaw until tonight. Everyone says it is the "safest" tool in the shop. I beg to differ since the teeth are exposed and you are always working right around them. Especially when resawing and you have 8-10" of open teeth staring at you before you start the cut.

My point is I was flat out stupid and didn't think it through. Lesson learned but even fear is not enough sometimes. Experience is the best teacher most of the time but in woodworking there isn't much room for mistakes through experience. It could have been MUCH worse.

A classic case of lack of knowledge and education, fear is not the answer, knowledge is. If you are afraid of the machine then you fear it and then you have accidents. Learn why it happened and be safe with your new knowledge.

[Bobby O'Neal]

I agree with the thoughts on respect versus fear. I think the right combination of respect and confidence equals safety.

[Rod Sheridan]

A classic case of lack of knowledge and education, fear is not the answer, knowledge is. If you are afraid of the machine then you fear it and then you have accidents. Learn why it happened and be safe with your new knowledge.

That's the ticket, education, and knowledge.

Too many of us are self taught, hence lack of a knowledgeable instructor.

This unfortunately is also prevalent on TV and in magazines, how many times have you watched Norm not use proper guards on machines, or FWW not show proper techiniques in their magazine? The answer is almost every time. (Not picking on Norm, he's just a well known example).

The claim is that you won't be able to see what's happening, or the guards are removed for "illustration purpose".

Come on, do they really think we don't know that the saw blade cuts? What else do you think is happening in there?

A few years ago Diann and I were watching a Felder video and she remarked that the cabinet maker always used the guards and eye and ear protection, as well as empasizing dust collection. There was no attempt to show the machines without guards for illustration purposes even though they were attempting to sell you a $20K machine. That really got my attention, my wife noticed the safety differences between the normal TV shows and the Felder video.

It's all about education and proper training, something we are sorely lacking in North America.

I had to laugh at the Power Tool Institute and their claims that voluntary measures would stop tablesaw accidents. Doesn't seem to be working too well, perhaps they do need to educate users, maybe a good DVD with every saw showing how to use a tablesaw, what operations you can do, and what operations need aftermarket or accessory guards. Maybe that would help.

Anyway, here's a the link to the Felder vidoe http://www.felderusa.com/us-us/video/the-complete-workshop.html

Watch it and let me know if you think it's an improvement over the practices you normally see on TV............Regards, Rod.

[Gordon Eyre]

I am with many of the others; i.e., respect power tools. I don't like the word fear because that makes you tentative and that in and of itself can cause problems. Most of us know the rules it is just applying them every time we use a particular power tool and that comes with respecting the tool. Fear is a whole other set of emotions.

[Van Huskey]

I am by far not the first to say it but I will echo what many have said.

Fear is something you should work on eliminating, respect is something you should work on cultivating. Of all the states of mind around machines complacency is probably the worst.