Workbench questions: wood selection and tail vice installation

[Mike Allen1010]

I am primarily a hand tool user and am in the process of designing/building a Roubo style bench modeled after Chris Schwarz version in "The Workbench Design Book".

I have read with great interest the many workbench threads here on the Creek and was hoping to tap into the knowledge and experience here to answer a couple questions I'm currently struggling with:

After exploring the options available to me in my area (I live in the San Diego area), I have narrowed my choices for the workbench top to commercially available, kiln dried 8/4 European steamed beech or "Pacific Maple". I've never heard of "Pacific" Maple before, but the lumberyard described it as comparable to what is commonly referred to as "Western or Soft Maple".

The only other realistic option for me would be "Hard Maple", but I am shying away from this option as I think this would be difficult to work with hand tools.

I've looked at an references for the Janka hardness and it showed the following:
"Highland Beach” – 1,686
“Hard Maple/Sugar Maple” - 1,450
"American Beech" - 1,300


I'm not sure which of these numbers, if any correlate best to the "Pacific Maple" and "European Steamed Beech" available at my local lumberyard? Any thoughts about what numbers I should be using to gauge the hardness of the woods I actually have available?

1. My primary question is which of these two options (European steam beach or "Pacific Maple") would be easier to work with hand tools? I'm going to rip the 8/4 material 4” wide and laminate these pieces into a benchtop that will be 24” wide X 4” thick X 8‘ long. The construction process is going to involve lots of surface and edge planeing. I don't have any stationary power tools and will need to do this by hand. I'm also going to have to bore the bench dog holes etc.

Beyond this "hand tool workability" question I think these two words are fairly equal with regard to other relevant characteristics such as density, stiffness etc. The Maple would be lighter in color, which I like for visibility reasons, but I'm not sure it makes much difference?

I appreciate any and all thoughts and suggestions. I know there are many here who have been down this road before and I would love to learn from your experience before I invest the time and money on this project.


2. My other question regards installation of a tail vice. I'm using a Rockler 12” wide, quick release tail vice that has 1” diameter guide rods (12 inches apart). I'm going to use two rows of bench dogs, and a full width vice chop to allow for four-point clamping on the bench surface. (I'm using a Veritas twin screw for the face vice).

My question is, do I need to add a "End cap/ Breadboard" to the tail end of the benchtop, or is it okay to simply have the tail vice chop clamp directly against the grain of the benchtop?

Given the 4” thickness of the benchtop, I was planning to mount the tail vice directly to the bottom of the benchtop. To allow space for the guide rods to pass through the vice chop, the chop would be a couple inches wider/deeper than the 4” thickness of the benchtop, but I don't think that really matters – does it?

Again any advice, recommendations and suggestions are very much appreciated!

Thanks, Mike

[Jerome Hanby]

You know, If you are married to the idea of using all hand tools to build your bench, I'd use whatever hard wood you enjoy planing for the top. I mean there is "hard" and then there's "hard enough" and I think a workbench top definitely falls into the latter category. Folks on the 'creek have documented using SYP, DF, and even poplar with good results, I don't think you have to kill yourself hand planing sugar maple to get an acceptable top. I was reading a PDF I found online on someone's build to get a feel for sizing some of my base parts and he was talking about planing his hard maple. He found that some boards planed like a dream and others had him resharpening blades every 20 minutes...

[Zach England]

If you don't have it Get Chris Schwarz older workbench book (the blue one). He talks about the three important qualities of workbench wood--hardness, stiffness and weight. He also pays due respect to the fourth quality that some of us are concerned with when doing such a large project--price (European Beech!).

[Bryan Schwerer]

Here's an interview with Schwartz where he answers a lot of bench questions

Don't sweat the wood. Douglas Fir is fine. http://thewoodwhisperer.com/chris-schwarz-interview/

[Jim Koepke]

Everyone loves a bench build thread. At least some of us do…

In my opinion the best wood to use when making a bench is whatever is available locally at a reasonable price.

That said, the very best wood is the one the maker wants to use.

As to mounting your vises, I am pondering the same questions.

Some of my thoughts are that the vise should be mounted so the top is flush with the bench. My bench will have a strong breadboard end and if needed the top will be bored or cutout before gluing for the guide rods and screw.

If the vise jaws are too deep, there can be a problem with vertical racking. Think of how a leg vise works. A leg vise has a way to deal with vertical racking.

jtk

[Andrae Covington]

Here's an interview with Schwartz where he answers a lot of bench questions

Don't sweat the wood. Douglas Fir is fine. http://thewoodwhisperer.com/chris-schwarz-interview/

That's a good interview and augments as well as reiterates his workbench books. Part of the discussion is specifically "what wood should I use" and a subpart about beech/hard maple vs softwoods or other hardwoods. Schwarz has said repeatedly to use any wood that is 1) dry enough 2) stiff enough 3) cheap and available to you locally. Nothing wrong with using tough hardwoods, but don't feel like you have to. At 3 to 4+ inches thick, just about anything but balsa is going to be stiff enough to not sag in the middle. Actually even the balsa might work, but the workbench would probably skip across the floor the first time you tried to run a plane on it.

"Pacific Maple" could be either Acer macrophyllum, aka Big Leaf Maple, Oregon Maple, Western Maple, etc. or Aglaia cucullata, an import from India and Southeast Asia. I don't know anything about the latter.

[Gary Curtis]

My bench top is Euro Beech (steamed). Very hard stuff. But because of the expense, why not get Hard Maple. I live in Los Angeles. Call Bonhoff Lumber (323) 263-9361. They've got some large timbers of Hard Maple with sun and water stains for about $2 a board foot.

No comments about making a bench by hand. Those woods you mention are awfully tough. To saw off 8" of excess length of my 2" thick top I had 4 (FOUR) friends help lift and run it through my sliding table saw. Not a lot of fun. I also don't know about end vises. My vises aren't installed yet and I opted for a tail vise.

[Jim Koepke]

I also don't know about end vises. My vises aren't installed yet and I opted for a tail vise.

My thoughts could be wrong, but isn't an end vise and a tail vise the same thing?

jtk

[Jim Foster]

About making a Roubo by hand. As far s I know the tops used to be single, massive boards that only had to be planed top & bottom, and sides. Today, assuming 8/4 or thinner pieces that will be glued up, its a lot of planing. I think it'd be fair to use machine tools until the top was ready to do the final surfacing on all six sides. :)

[James Carmichael]

If you don't have it Get Chris Schwarz older workbench book (the blue one). He talks about the three important qualities of workbench wood--hardness, stiffness and weight. He also pays due respect to the fourth quality that some of us are concerned with when doing such a large project--price (European Beech!).

I'm amazed stability is not in his top three, especially on a Roubo, where the top is jointed to the legs instead of floating on trestles. I'm also surprised Schwarz considers hardness important, given his recent promotion of #2 SYP.

I would look for a dense wood with a low Rangential/Tangential shrinkage ratio, less than 1/2. The only species on Mike's list that meets that criteria is hard maple. All of the hickories have very low ratios, but their overall shrinkage is high. They will definitely meet the hardness/stiffness requirements. Straight-grained hickory planes pretty easily for me, but I haven't tried hand-sawing or chopping mortises.

Some of the softwoods meet this criteria, the best being longleaf pine, which is probably what I'll use if I ever get around to building a new bench. I get it kiln-dried for $2pbf at a local mill. I'm getting more comfortable with #2 SYP from home depot (costs about 60-cents PBF), but the stuff is so wet it should probably be sealed & stickered for several months. A nice all-quartersawn 2x12x8 checked severely on me.

I think you should also look for very straight-grained rift or quartersawn stock.

[Rob Fisher]

I'm amazed stability is not in his top three, especially on a Roubo, where the top is jointed to the legs instead of floating on trestles. I'm also surprised Schwarz considers hardness important, given his recent promotion of #2 SYP...longleaf pine, which is probably what I'll use if I ever get around to building a new bench. I get it kiln-dried for $2pbf at a local mill. I'm getting more comfortable with #2 SYP from home depot (costs about 60-cents PBF), but the stuff is so wet it should probably be sealed & stickered for several months. A nice all-quartersawn 2x12x8 checked severely on me.I think you should also look for very straight-grained rift or quartersawn stock.I believe that Chris does talk about stability, or at least it is assumed that any wood you use needs to be relatively stable. This a workbench though, and one can, and probably should check and plane it flat every so often. I think Chris advocates using 2x12x16 (or as long as you can get) and getting boards with the pith in or close to the pith. This leaves 4"+ at the edges that is quarter sawn and typically perfectly serviceable for a workbench. You are right that construction grade wood is a little wet but stickering it for a few weeks to months and then it is plenty dry enough. No need to seal it, unless it is fresh sawn, which most construction lumber is not. Regarding specific species Chris recommends the cheapest available because not everyone can afford $2 or $4 or $6bf for different hardwoods. At typically less than $1bf construction grade lumber fits that bill well. Certianly someone can use just about any wood they want but typical construction grade lumber ( SYP, Doug fir or even Hem-fir ) is more than enough for a workbench. Save the more expensiv, nicer woods for the furniture.

[Mike Barger]

My thoughts could be wrong, but isn't an end vise and a tail vise the same thing?

jtk

I believe a tail vise is a type of end vise.

[James Carmichael]

Rob,
you just described the board that checked so bad: all qsawn and pith on both ends. Broke my heart.

You do definitely want to avoid plainsawn #2 syp, it cups & bows like crazy.

The big box syp is attractive for the price and availability of big qsawn boards, but I don't trust it's moisture content or stability yet.

BTW, I meant to say radial/tangential in my first reply. Musta had a Rick Perry moment:-)

[Rob Fisher]

Rob,you just described the board that checked so bad: all qsawn and pith on both ends...Pith on both ends? I'm not sure how that could happen, unless two trunks merged or something (which could definitely lead to odd drying). The 2x12 Doug fir boards I have been acquiring are sawn very close to the pith. I am cutting approximately 4.25" off of each edge leaving an approximately 2.5" piece of flat sawn "scrap". I'm using the scrap as nailers for cabinets I am installing in the house and garage. The 4.24" edge pieces are almost perfectly quartersawn. I am getting the pieces I need over a couple of month and I'm going to allow a few months for everything to acclimate to my shop. Assuming nothing moves drastically in that time I should be fine. If I have a piece that checks like yours I will just get another and keep moving.

[James Carmichael]

Pith on each end means the it runs roight down the center, the board was sawn perfectly fron the center of the tree.
Anyway, that's enuff on syp, we've hijacked poor mikes thread