how would y'all counter age discrimination

[Brian Ashton]

I'm just finishing up a degree in accounting and am finding employers are not all that keen on hiring over 40s accountants. Now I know all about the law, my rights... and for the most part they're useless.


I'm looking for creative and thoughtful ways to countering the enquiries and stigma at the interview and try to swing a positive view for myself. I don't have much problem getting to the first interview stage as my resume is good at getting in the door and I present intelligently but the age thing stops me in my tracks. Asked one employer to give me feed back and she just came out and said it "you're too old". Others mention the age thing but don't push it, so I know it's a factor... Any food for thought for me.

[Doug Mason]

Don'tgive up. And you don't specify what type of accounting position you seek (i.e., audit, tax, cost accounting, governmental accounting, etc)

From my perspective your biggest problem is that you have no experience. At your age, getting into audit would almost be impossible (but don't give up)--it's just the way "it is." I would recommend taking a corporate accountant position with a small company where there will be more risk of job loss yet greater opportunity (but be carefull to avoid positions that are a dead end where you can't build your skills). In my part of the world (San Francisco Bay Area) I see age discrimination--yet if you have the skills I find that the age factor becomes mostly irrelevant. The local economy is a big factor. Also, as a first job, I would disregard the salary and focus on skill building. Remember--your selling your skills.

[Lee Schierer]

You're not old your experienced!

Forty shouldn't be a problem as you have at least 20 years of work experience. I would think that unless you are going to those big accounting firms where they basically use their new hires as slave labor to put in extremely long hours auditing clients books for minimal pay that you shouldn't have any problem with your age. Maybe what you need to be looking for is a job as a controller for a small company or group of small companies. Check with your local small business association and see if they can give you a list of their members and start sending private letters to the owners asking for a meeting to obtain advice on how to market your skills. It doesn't matter if they have a job opening currently say you just want 15 minutes of their time to get some insight on how to market yourself in the accounting field. At the interview tell them what you are looking for and at some point near the end of your time ask if they have associates or friends that you might talk to for advice, not pressuring them for a job, but just to continue seeking information. You may go on 20 interviews without a job lead, but eventually you will get referred to someone who is either looking to hire or knows someone who is. The last place you will see notices of openings is in the paper or online resources. It starts in the department head or CEO's mind first. I had to look for work 4 times in my career and 3 of the 4 times I found a job that was never advertised by using this method. Be prepared, as it is a lot of work, writing letters, making follow up calls for appointments, going to interviews and writing thank you letters to every one that you meet with.

Be sure to use those other resources as well.

[David Weaver]

Have a look at a regional firm or local firm instead of a national. When the market is loose like now, the national firms can set up a model individual to hire and then just stick to that type.

That doesn't mean regional firms don't do the same. Around here, the regionals like to pick up people who fall out of the national firm meat grinders when they can no longer tolerate the games and the sometimes ridiculous and uncontrollable work schedule.

Could be totally different in australia, I know the audit companies that are big there are a bit different. What area are you looking to get into?

[Joe Angrisani]

....Maybe what you need to be looking for is a job as a controller for a small company or group of small companies....

This is where my first thought went as well.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I'm just finishing up a degree in accounting and am finding employers are not all that keen on hiring over 40s accountants. Now I know all about the law, my rights... and for the most part they're useless.
Pfffftttt.......Blow all the discrimination laws and other "feel good" useless stuff out the window. It's all toothless propaganda.
I quit the retail rat race and went back to school to learn computers when I was in my late 30's.
A month or so shy of my 40th birthday, I entered the computer repair/IT field as an entry level tech..

Four months ago, I retired from the computer field @ the age of 59 1/2.
I'm in the process of breaking into the construction business - again @ entry level.

So - I do know a thing or two about being someone with more life experience seeking a new career. ;)

Let me tell you the one thing you have (or should have) going for you that most if not all of the younger people will have..

Enthusiasm.
Let me repeat that so it sinks in.
Enthusiasm.
You're fulfilling your lifelong dream which is to become an accountant.
All those "young kids" are just looking for a job & a paycheck.

Quit being apologetic for your age. Start making the interviewer wonder how they can channel all that enthusiasm.


BTW & FWIW - I just got a nibble the other day from a contractor in the area. He's willing to give me a shot.
I may not be his youngest & spryest entry level laboror,,,,,but,,,I'll be one that there no doubt in his mind is giving him "the best I've got to give".

[Don Jarvie]

Age may have something to do with it if your going for entry level positions and not getting them with the company thinking you'll want more money because your older. I would have to say experience or lack of is hurting you maybe a bit more.

An approach to take is when your interviewing try to use previous employment as a way to separate yourself from someone right out of college. Something like "While I wasn't an accountant in my previous positions, as warehouse manager I was responsible for providing all of the sales and inventory numbers to the accountant and verified all financial numbers before thew quarterly books were closed".

Good luck
Don

[Mike Davis NC]

I good beat down really shows you are in good shape for your age. Doesn't hurt to rough up the secretary too.

[Mike Davis NC]

On second thought that only works for the over sixty crowd.

[Don Wacker]

Asked one employer to give me feed back and she just came out and said it "you're too old". Others mention the age thing but don't push it, so I know it's a factor... Any food for thought for me.

People our age need to start standing up for what is right. At 50 I couldnt imagine going into the job market. Im on the other side of the fence and did in fact get sued for telling a guy I thought he was to young. I believe age and responsibility shows the need for a better work ethic. Face it older people cant afford to get fired. We cant run home to mommy.

Don

[David Helm]

On second thought that only works for the over sixty crowd.
Being 69 (getting old is not for the weak) that beat down is a good idea. I am in better physical condition than many of the bosses out there. If the OP thinks its tough at 40, he should try to get a job in his 60s. By the way, it is not legal for a potential employer to comment about your age.

[John M Wilson]

Quit being apologetic for your age. Start making the interviewer wonder how they can channel all that enthusiasm.


I heartily agree...

After working for over 3 decades for a large automobile manufacturer, my factory closed down & I was given the alternative to move to several less-than-desirable places in the USA or retire. So, I chose to retire at 52. My company was offering job search assistance through a local branch of a nationally recognized job placement firm, so I went to a few of the seminars. One dealt specifically with the topic of hitting the job market as an "experienced" (i.e. older) new hire.

Much of what was bandied about during the seminar revolved around downplaying your age & experience, & some advice was tilting toward hiding it (don't put the years you graduated from high school or college, dye your grey hair, list "hip-hop" as your favorite music ;), etc.)

I took a completely different approach: If a company wouldn't want to hire me just because I was older, and I was able to skirt that issue by creative resume work and dying my hair, then I WOULDN'T WANT TO WORK FOR THAT COMPANY! If they are that shallow and/or easily duped, it doesn't sound like a good long-term fit, anyway. I wanted to work for someone who would want me for what I am: older, experienced, etc.

The path I chose involved going back to college, getting a master's in teaching, and landing a job teaching at a local high school. Now that particular path isn't for everyone, but my point is that I found an employer who thought it was an asset to have real-world experience, and I didn't have to hide a thing. I used it to my advantage to set myself apart from the other job-seekers who were 22 and just graduating from college.

My situation is not unique: of the dozens of my co-workers who were in the same boat, those that used their experience as a positive are re-employed, and those that stocked up on Grecian Formula & rap records are largely still looking.

I'm not saying that age discrimination doesn't exist, or that it doesn't make for a tougher job search, because both of those are true. But in the long run, you want to find a company that wants you just as much as you want to work for them. To paraphrase Bogie, your new career could be "the start of a beautiful friendship".

Good luck!

[Amanda Brimm]

I'm the youngest person at my small manufacturing company (10-20 employees) at 26yo - all other employees are 40-66yo. We needed to hire someone for general assembly - the hiring team was me, the president and the operations manager. Those two, who are both men in that 46-60 range, wanted someone with experience who could start working and not need a whole lot of training -- but the kicker is that they were bent on not hiring someone too old. I know - illegal and hello? the whole workforce is "old"... but like you're finding, employers will do what they want, whether or not it makes good business sense, and most of the time get away with it.

I ended up convincing them to hire this person in his 40's with good solid experience and loyal work history (he'd been with a previous company for 13yrs). They didn't want to hire someone who only had a few years left -- but I pointed out that someone who's in their 40's is more likely to put in 20 years as opposed to someone in their 20's who is going to leave at the first sign of boredom in a year or so. Also, enthusiasm and work ethic are huge!

My advice is - don't put your high school graduation date on there or anything to indicate your age before you land the interview- which it sounds like you're doing just fine. Then, during the interview, casually mention that you're looking for solid employment with their company for XX number of years. People have a hard time actually doing the math - and if they're judging you on your age, they're thinking this guy's only going to put a few years before retiring, not realizing the fallacy in their math. If you suspect they think you're going to want too much money, I know you generally shouldn't discuss money during an interview, but you could also (again casually) mention that you are realistic in your salary expectations for the amount of experience you have.

Just my 2 cents from having been on the other side.

[Leo Graywacz]

Start your own business.

[Amanda Brimm]

Start your own business.

for sure... +1 to that!

[Belinda Barfield]

for sure... +1 to that!

-1 to that. Starting your own accounting business may not be the best idea in this economy. Accountants typically need to build up a clientele, which can be slow if you are new to the business. As a small business owner I can tell you that it doesn't any easier as you get older to be the one in charge. The hours can be long and the stress can be brutal. Of course, every experience is different!

[Leo Graywacz]

-1 to that. Starting your own accounting business may not be the best idea in this economy. Accountants typically need to build up a clientele, which can be slow if you are new to the business. As a small business owner I can tell you that it doesn't any easier as you get older to be the one in charge. The hours can be long and the stress can be brutal. Of course, every experience is different!

Starting it up before tax season is probably the best time to do it for an accountant. April 16th would be a bad start date LOL

I've never laid myself off either. Becoming self sufficient is a tough thing to start, but once you are there it is better for a lot of reasons.

[Phil Thien]

Many young people don't like hiring older people. To a 20 or 30-something decision maker, it would be like hiring "their dad."

To a 60-YO decision maker, you will have several valuable attributes: (1) The days of you going clubbing all night are probably long gone. (2) You don't likely text people all day long. (3) I doubt you tell everyone what you're going to eat for lunch via Facebook or Twitter. (4) If left in charge, people will probably take you seriously.

Not joking. Just keeping interviewing. You will find something.

[Moses Yoder]

I doubt it is your age that is preventing them from hiring you, that's just a convenient excuse. I would guess it is because you wear your pants half way down your butt. Buy a belt, and pull up your pants. If that's not it, I would check for other detractors, like baldness or pants being too short.

[Dan Hintz]

I'll throw another spin on the situation...

Larger companies don't want to hire older folk because they'll take a hit on their insurance premiums. It's cheaper to get a rider for heart attacks when the average worker age is 20-something compared to your competitor who is supporting mostly 50/60 year olds. They would love to have the experience in house, but they don't want to get it at the (short-sighted, short-term) expense of more money, including pension plans, health issues, raises, salaries, etc. I can't say I blame them for that line of thinking, so long as it's not clouding judgement when it comes to getting in experience that's sorely needed.

[Bob Riefer]

Whenever I've reviewed resumes it's generally obvious ahead of time the age of the candidates based on various clues (graduation year, number of years employed etc. etc. etc.). So, either the age-discriminating employers love to waste their own time by bringing you in for an interview despite having no intent of hiring "old" people, or there's something going wrong in the interview. I understand you said that there were instances where age was mentioned, but I'd still consider the possibility that your skills, interview skills, or something else is leading them away from you.

Just my opinion

[Chris Parks]

It was touched on above but the people hiring generally gravitate to applicants of their own age, young hire young and older likewise. Me I am older and have no issue hiring older people but young applicants worry me due to lack of application and enthusiasm for the job.

[Brian Ashton]

Whenever I've reviewed resumes it's generally obvious ahead of time the age of the candidates based on various clues (graduation year, number of years employed etc. etc. etc.). So, either the age-discriminating employers love to waste their own time by bringing you in for an interview despite having no intent of hiring "old" people, or there's something going wrong in the interview. I understand you said that there were instances where age was mentioned, but I'd still consider the possibility that your skills, interview skills, or something else is leading them away from you.

Just my opinion

I hear what you and others are saying but my resume is very well thought out in that it doesn't have any information that goes back further than 12 years (I'm a recent uni grad so there is no point putting in my high school graduation...) and there are no other dates that could indicate age. It's when I get to the interview that they see I'm older. As for skills I'm applying on graduate positions where the individual is expected to have no skill in the area so all applicants are on the same level that way. But in actual fact I most likely have more skill so that isn't it. I've even been told in feedback that I interview well and show a high degree of intelligence...

[Phil Thien]

I hear what you and others are saying but my resume is very well thought out in that it doesn't have any information that goes back further than 12 years (I'm a recent uni grad so there is no point putting in my high school graduation...) and there are no other dates that could indicate age. It's when I get to the interview that they see I'm older. As for skills I'm applying on graduate positions where the individual is expected to have no skill in the area so all applicants are on the same level that way. But in actual fact I most likely have more skill so that isn't it. I've even been told in feedback that I interview well and show a high degree of intelligence...

Eliminating everything that would indicate age from your resume may work against you.

You are making yourself difficult to find for anyone that would prefer a more mature candidate (someone that doesn't want a 20-something YO kid handing payables).

At the same time, the people you "fool" into interviewing you still aren't going to hire you.

I'd consider including a cover letter that indicates a change in careers and even go into a little detail (1-2 very short paragraphs).

You would get fewer calls. But calls you get would be pre-qualified gold.

Just a thought.

[Chuck Wintle]

I'm just finishing up a degree in accounting and am finding employers are not all that keen on hiring over 40s accountants. Now I know all about the law, my rights... and for the most part they're useless.


I'm looking for creative and thoughtful ways to countering the enquiries and stigma at the interview and try to swing a positive view for myself. I don't have much problem getting to the first interview stage as my resume is good at getting in the door and I present intelligently but the age thing stops me in my tracks. Asked one employer to give me feed back and she just came out and said it "you're too old". Others mention the age thing but don't push it, so I know it's a factor... Any food for thought for me.
Brian,
Just from my observations at my place of work...new and young workers are desirable because the company can get them to work long hours and older employees cannot do the same hours...the company knows this all too well. I have seen young engineers work 75 to 90 hours a week and maintain this pace. For how long I don't know but they are replaceable. Experience, on the other hand, is good and companies like to keep enough experienced employees to keep things going.

[Scott T Smith]

Pfffftttt.......Blow all the discrimination laws and other "feel good" useless stuff out the window. It's all toothless propaganda.
I quit the retail rat race and went back to school to learn computers when I was in my late 30's.
A month or so shy of my 40th birthday, I entered the computer repair/IT field as an entry level tech..

Four months ago, I retired from the computer field @ the age of 59 1/2.
I'm in the process of breaking into the construction business - again @ entry level.

So - I do know a thing or two about being someone with more life experience seeking a new career. ;)

Let me tell you the one thing you have (or should have) going for you that most if not all of the younger people will have..

Enthusiasm.
Let me repeat that so it sinks in.
Enthusiasm.
You're fulfilling your lifelong dream which is to become an accountant.
All those "young kids" are just looking for a job & a paycheck.

Quit being apologetic for your age. Start making the interviewer wonder how they can channel all that enthusiasm.


BTW & FWIW - I just got a nibble the other day from a contractor in the area. He's willing to give me a shot.
I may not be his youngest & spryest entry level laboror,,,,,but,,,I'll be one that there no doubt in his mind is giving him "the best I've got to give".


+100. One of the problems with growing older is that we lose our enthusiasm, our sense of wonder, and the drive that propels us to excel beyond expectations, and employers pick up on this during an interview.

What you have going for you that the twenty-something doesn't is discipline, experience, dependability, and more wisdom. What you *may* be lacking is drive, inquisitiveness and enthusiasm, all of which are within your control.