Benches for guitar making

[Shaun Mahood]

In all the millions of bench threads on here and elsewhere, I've not found many detailed examples of benches setup specifically for guitar or other small instrument making. Anyone have any recommendations of where to look? Any recommendations for bench height? I'm planning on making at least one classical guitar with hand tools only.

[george wilson]

Aw shucks!! And I've been making guitars on a regular bench all these years!!! I know a story about Jacob Steiner,the famous Austrian violin maker. The only one outside of Italy to use the Cremona varnish which was used by several Northern Italian makers at the time.

He went crazy,and had to be chained to his STONE workbench!!! So,start looking for a large slab of stone.:)

[Wayne Morley]

The Workbench Book by Scott Landis has a short chapter on benches for luthiers.

[Shaun Mahood]

George, was there ever a problem with your bench being too low to be comfortable? In my garage I have room for a 6' wide low bench (about 32" high to be able to fit into a built in cubby) and another space that would fit a 4' wide of any height. Because of the angles of the walls I can't fit one longer bench, so I'm trying to figure out if there is an advantage to having one higher for more fiddly work, and one lower bench for planing and other general work.

[Joel Moskowitz]

This is probably not much use but the second bench illustration is for musical instrument making. (diderot encylopidia C. 1750)
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com//Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=NEXT&StoreCode=toolstore&nextpage=/extra/blogpage.html&BlogID=204&BG=1

[Zach England]

I recently paid a visit to a renowned luthiery school. They don't make guitars--only violins, violas and cellos. However, they did their dimensioning and rough planing and sawing on large German-style cabinetmakers' benches and assembled the instruments on small benches with plates of float glass on top.

I should add that they also have some pretty serious old iron power tools that really made me drool.

[george wilson]

I looked at the Diderot illustrations from Joel. I can't understand why an instrument maker wouldn't want vises on his bench. By the way,I had a regular tail vise on my bench at Williamsburg. Most things were tapered. I made 2 4"x4" blocks of oak(any hard wood would do). These I screwed with long lag bolts down to the jaws of my tail vise,so that when the vise was closed,the blocks would come together. I could loosen the lag bolts and swivel the blocks to hold tapered necks. Worked very well.

Most of the time at home I use one of those universal woodworker's vises that are now Asian made. In 1970 I had bought a German one for $40.00. I still have it. They progressively got too expensive and were dropped from catalogs. Then,the Asian clones came out. For the most part,they are fine,though some will be too loose in the moving jaw. I have about 4 of them in my and my wife's shops. I make up maple jaws for them and replace them when needed.

I still like the tail vise for planing wood between dogs.

[John Coloccia]

I don't have time right now to list the attributes of my perfect bench, but I'll start off with this:

In my shop, I have an old Delta contractor saw...it has no fence, no wings...nothing. Just a small, square top with a dedicated jig to slot fingerboards. I made a little wood top for it, and I used to have my chop saw living on top of it. Lately, I've been over 50% of my work on that small "bench". I love being able to walk around and get to all sides. I love all the clamping possibilities. If it had one of my carving vices on it, I would probably do 80% or more of my work on that bench.

So that gives you an idea of where I would be looking if I wanted luthier's bench. For dimensioning wood, any standard bench will do. In your case, you're making acoustics, though, so a luthiers bench may not even make sense. If you build on a workboard or a solera (which is a good idea) there's no reason to have any special bench at all.

[Richard Francis]

You might start with Michael Darnton's book project about violin making and the workspace chapter
http://www.violinmag.com/
and then search for his shop pictures - he seems to use an ordinary desk/table as a start.

[Jim Matthews]

Here's an intriguing, lightweight design (http://blumtool.com/pages/benchhorse2.htm) with simple holding fixtures (Blum tool Company)

It can be folded up for storage, changing the height should be straightforward.
If you do heavy planing, it would need to be moved against a wall for stability.

It's strongest attribute is the torsion box - and the fact that someone else spent shop time to make it.

Every hours spent making a workbench is time taken out of building your guitar.

[Conrad Fiore]

Shaun,
You might consider a bench on a bench for the "fiddly" work.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/indextool.mvc?prodid=MS-BOB.XX

[Sam Takeuchi]

Don't overthink about this type of thing. You'll be fine with any reasonably designed woodwork bench. You'll make do with what you have if something is deficient. If anything to add, bench itself isn't the issue if you are going to be making acoustic or classical guitar. Even a kitchen table with MDF board on top of it would be sufficient. You'll figure a way to hold things in place if you don't have any bench vise at all. You can use anything for bench.

What helps greatly in guitar making is a smaller glue up bench (even a table would be fine) aside from the main bench, so that glue up work don't take up main bench and you have to wait until glue dries. If it's acoustic and classical guitar, there are crap loads of glue up to do, so waiting for each part of glue up to dry will only delay your progress. Another thing is if you use workboard/solera, stand alone workboard/solera (either with a stand or fixed to the bench somehow or something) would allow access to any part of the guitar during assembly unhindered. Plus you can customize workboard height to your liking. For me, using workboard on bench top is both uncomfortable (height wise) and access isn't as good since bench top is wider than the workboard.

Other than that, I can't think of a specific reason why bench for guitar building should be any different from any other workbench. In the end, in-progress guitar spend most of time on workboard.

[Dustin Keys]

You might start with Michael Darnton's book project about violin making and the workspace chapter
http://www.violinmag.com/
and then search for his shop pictures - he seems to use an ordinary desk/table as a start.

That's interesting, I work from an old computer desk for most guitar stuff. Mine is quite a bit wider on one end than the other. It easily fits a small amp in the corner of the wide end, solvents and various tools along the back, and the narrow end takes care of the guitar neck and a stereo. I use this bench for setups, electronic work, and small repairs mostly. If I added a vise or two, I'm sure I would use it even more.

My general woodworking bench with an end vise and face vise would be better for building a guitar from scratch though. I'm about to begin a build, and I have yet to think of any operation I can't successfully do on my woodworking bench (6'x2'). I don't remember how tall my bench is, but it's on the shorter end of things. I usually sit when working at the old computer desk on a guitar, so that the work is very close to my eyes and it's just generally more comfortable for me most of the time.

George, I'm trying to picture the end vise contraption you're describing with the lag bolted blocks, but I'm not getting it. Do you have a picture of it? I've been wanting to get a vise that handles curved shapes like guitar necks, but if there's a way to modify my end vise to handle it I might prefer that.

D

[john brenton]

Here's an interesting split top luthier's bench http://www.charangosmartinez.com/charangos/Martinez-1.jpg

(http://www.charangosmartinez.com/charangos/charangos.html)I'm certainly not a luthier, but from what I've experienced in making a couple of musical instruments the hard part is planing very thin material. I still don't know how that is supposed to be done. I clamp a corner to the bench and plane it the best I can. That, and as George mentioned having some kind of benchtop vise to hold small parts like the bridge is a must.

Here is a fantastic site that has taught me much about neander guitar building. In it you'll see tons of fixtures and good ideas.
http://myplace.frontier.com/~nostberg/

[george wilson]

Unfortunately,I do not have a picture of my device. The universal woodworker's vise is better,though. The only reason I used the blocks of oak was that they were based on what someone in the 18th.C. could have rigged up. I was in the musical instrument maker's shop,in public at the time.

If you buy an Asian universal vise,go to somewhere like Woodcraft Supply,and pick out one in person. Make sure that the sliding,large rectangular side pieces are not too loose where they fit through the grooves cut for them in the cast iron base of the stationary jaw. I did get one that was too wobbly,and made a shim out of brass to tighten it up to a sliding fit.

The worst version of this vise that I ever saw was made in Canada. The furniture conservation shop bought one,and it was so loose and imperfectly made that it was just terrible. They paid a lot more than a Taiwan made one cost,too.

[John Coloccia]

The StewMac version is pretty nice.

[Dave Cottrell]

My perspective on instrument work comes from making a living repairing instruments for over 20 years. Most of the operations in making an instrument are also present in many repair processes, except for some of the big carving and stock prep tasks.

I would give you a few hints, some of which I have even used in my own shop. Realize this is from the point of view of repair, not fabrication, so your needs might differ.

My work bench is sized to fit everything up to a string bass. It is 60" long and 29" wide, a bit bigger than many woodworking benches. I have a hardboard top which is screwed in place and is replaceable, as I do many things with glue, oil, and heat on my bench.

I have no clamps other than a simple front vise, and that is used pretty much for holding jigs, like a bridge planing jig. I have a boatmaker's vise that I got from Stewie Mac which is extremely useful for holding tapered and round objects, like cello necks. I do wish I had something like a wagon or inset vise and dog holes for some light planing operations, but so far planing stops and wedges have been sufficient. I am not thicknessing 8/4 oak, but taking a few mm's off of 1/8 spruce.

In most instances, a cradle or other jig/holder is more useful for holding an instrument during work than a vise, as stability of the work is more important than immobility. I do a lot of work on cello and bass tops removed from the instrument, and a thick pile carpet provides enough holding power while shaping cleats. I don't need to keep my work attached to the bench, just stable enough to provide resistance to the tool, and still be flexible enough to shift position as the work moves along.

I built the bench from 2x4's and plywood. It is plenty heavy enough, and I don't need to flatten wide panels or join 5 foot long boards, so a large flat reference surface is not necessary. You will find that you want to be able to get at all sides of your work, so place it away from a wall if you can. Also, I wish I had constructed the front bracing to allow room for me to sit at the bench with my knees under rather than parallel to the top, like a desk. I do a lot of things which involve close attention and sitting would be more comfortable this way.

In short, woodworking benches are built to be rock solid bases to provide immobility for heavy operations like thicknessing, sawing and chopping. However, after initial stock preparation, most instrument work is detail-oriented and involves a closer and more responsive relationship between the worker and the work. You might find that your approach to your bench design will be from a different perspective than that of many other woodworkers.

[Dustin Keys]

My perspective on instrument work comes from making a living repairing instruments for over 20 years. Most of the operations in making an instrument are also present in many repair processes, except for some of the big carving and stock prep tasks.

I would give you a few hints, some of which I have even used in my own shop. Realize this is from the point of view of repair, not fabrication, so your needs might differ.

My work bench is sized to fit everything up to a string bass. It is 60" long and 29" wide, a bit bigger than many woodworking benches. I have a hardboard top which is screwed in place and is replaceable, as I do many things with glue, oil, and heat on my bench.

I have no clamps other than a simple front vise, and that is used pretty much for holding jigs, like a bridge planing jig. I have a boatmaker's vise that I got from Stewie Mac which is extremely useful for holding tapered and round objects, like cello necks. I do wish I had something like a wagon or inset vise and dog holes for some light planing operations, but so far planing stops and wedges have been sufficient. I am not thicknessing 8/4 oak, but taking a few mm's off of 1/8 spruce.

In most instances, a cradle or other jig/holder is more useful for holding an instrument during work than a vise, as stability of the work is more important than immobility. I do a lot of work on cello and bass tops removed from the instrument, and a thick pile carpet provides enough holding power while shaping cleats. I don't need to keep my work attached to the bench, just stable enough to provide resistance to the tool, and still be flexible enough to shift position as the work moves along.

I built the bench from 2x4's and plywood. It is plenty heavy enough, and I don't need to flatten wide panels or join 5 foot long boards, so a large flat reference surface is not necessary. You will find that you want to be able to get at all sides of your work, so place it away from a wall if you can. Also, I wish I had constructed the front bracing to allow room for me to sit at the bench with my knees under rather than parallel to the top, like a desk. I do a lot of things which involve close attention and sitting would be more comfortable this way.

In short, woodworking benches are built to be rock solid bases to provide immobility for heavy operations like thicknessing, sawing and chopping. However, after initial stock preparation, most instrument work is detail-oriented and involves a closer and more responsive relationship between the worker and the work. You might find that your approach to your bench design will be from a different perspective than that of many other woodworkers.

I have nowhere near the experience of someone like yourself or George Wilson, but you have summed up perfectly why I keep two benches. My wife wanted me to ditch the repurposed computer desk when we moved to this house, but I decided that I would like to have it for the more detail oriented guitar work that I do on occasion. That was largely an excuse not to throw it out because I hate getting rid of stuff I might need someday. It paid off in a huge way as I really do love that bench for guitar work and use it often. I recently finished a nice WW bench (at least I think it's nice), and while it's great for what it is, I still choose that old desk for the vast majority of the guitar work I do. It's more comfortable to sit for that type of stuff much of the time, and I like to have the work close to my eyes. I could get by with just the WW bench, but I much prefer the desk for a lot of stuff. The WW bench is irreplacable though for everything else it can do. If I had to have just one, it would be the WW bench by far. But I'm glad I can have both!

Also, I covered the working area of the desk with some cushiony rubber mesh material that my wife had for lining kitchen drawers. It's perfect for instrument work as it nicely protects a finished guitar from the desk/workbench surface and it holds the guitar firmly in place. I rarely (if ever) need to clamp a guitar at that bench because that material holds it in place so well.

D

[john brenton]

I need a cabinetmaker's bench, and the holtzappfel is perfect for me. I don't have any machines other than a lathe, so I definitely need a hefty bench.

That being said, I have thought about adding a little cobbler's type bench to the shop for lutherie. It would be nice to have a small space like that to sit, and do the inlays, do the fretwork, and have a few drawers for lutherie tools, purfling, and all the other little things.

Just a thought.

[Bob Stroupe]

I also don’t consider myself very experienced, but I just went through building and rebuilding a bench for this purpose so I can’t help throwing in my two cents.
It depends on how far down the hand tool rabbit hole you want to go. Are you going to be dimensioning your own lumber? If so you’re going to need a fairly standard hand tool woodworking bench. Then either put a raised platform on the bench, sit on a stool or make another bench for the detail stuff.
If you’re going to buy guitar shaped wood to start with you could probably getaway with just an assembly/repair bench. Make it a little higher. You want to keep the work between belt buckle and belly button height in my opinion. Don’t forget about the height of the instrument being a factor. Make sure it is a versatile clamping platform so you can easily clamp any jigs or work to it. Don’t get fancy with it. Keep it simple and inexpensive, especially if you’re only building one guitar :D. Chances are pretty good that down the road when you figure out what you need/want your going to want to rebuild it or start over with a new bench.

[Shaun Mahood]

Thanks for all the replies, it really helps - I have a tendency to overthink things, which can sometimes get me into trouble. I think I'll build my regular woodworking bench first, and will adjust as needed after that.

[Larry Fox]

Interesting thread. I am going to be setting up a bench for this purpose in the near future. I am thinking something on the smallish side. However, i am interested in thoughts on the vise options. My rust hunting has been fruitful of late and i have acquired two Emmert patternmakers vises. One is a #1 turtleback and the other is a smaller #2 and i was planning on mounting them on this purpose built bench. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts (good or bad) that they can share.

[David Keller NC]

Thanks for all the replies, it really helps - I have a tendency to overthink things, which can sometimes get me into trouble. I think I'll build my regular woodworking bench first, and will adjust as needed after that.

Shaun - I cannot speak to the specifics of instrument building, only as someone that does a lot of operations that are common to the carving and inlay work that go into instrument building. Specifically, I think you are right on the money - you can't build anything without a bench to dimension the rough stock, and that bench needs to be fairly low so that you can use your legs for planing, and don't have to wrestle heavy stock up to chest height. However, carving/layout/dovetailing/inlay work on such a bench can be a literal pain in the neck over long-term periods, and that's why most of us that do carving on a regular basis have a taller bench that's about the height of our elbows. That sort of bench would be well worth building as a 2nd work surface.