fence rail design

[Michael Thomas]

Good afternoon everyone.
I am building a few hundred feet of 42" high fencing/railing for an elevated area of my back yard. I am building a robust railing out of 6x6" posts, 2 1/2x5" top and bottom rails and T&G boards 7/8"thick. All milled from cedar that was felled in the neighbourhood. It will all be sanded and stained and will be maintained in order to keep it looking nice as it will be a "feature" of the yard due to its size and location. My question for you all is does anyone have any brilliant ideas on how to best connect the T&G boards to the top and bottom rails. I was thinking of a 7/8" dado in the top and bottom rails about an inch deep to accept them. I am concerned about water trapping in the bottom dado and slowly rotting the cedar over the years. The only solution I can come up with is a second dado below the first on the bottom rail that could capture the water and then have 1/4" holes drilled through the bottom of the rail to allow the water to escape.214896
Any good ideas out there??
Thanks in advance

Mike

[Kevin Presutti]

Mike,

As I read this I was thinking almost the exact same thing. I can't really think of better way since this will be an outdoor application. It seems viable but possibly someone else will read this and post some other way that may be better. I am curious as to the distance between holes and maybe they should be somewhat larger than 1/4" possibly 3/8" or 7/16". It would also allow air circulation to help dry the wood itself out. It seems as though you are planning on building it rugged enough it would seem that the construction would support a larger hole. Sounds like a sharp looking fence!

Kevin

[Ted Calver]

Split the bottom rail in half and sandwich the boards between the two pieces...no water trapped that way.

[johnny means]

+1 on the split rail. Tongue and groove is a bad move. It wouldn't be long until your holes and rail were all clogged up with debris, trapping in moisture and standing water. I know the craftsmen in us wants to make things uber pretty with fancy joinery instead of nails, but sometimes we have to design to function. Also, the split rail design will allow quick and easy removal of individual slats if the need ever arises.

[Richard Wagner]

I agree with larger holes. Allows for more circulation and reduces likelyhood of holes clogging (ever).

[Kent A Bathurst]

Split the bottom rail in half and sandwich the boards between the two pieces...no water trapped that way.

Bingo.

And - on a topic you did not ask about.......I use western red cedar exclusively for outdoor projects. I generally am machining the large majority of the components. In the cases where the client wants it stained, I have learned [the hard way] that to get the best, most even, stain absorption, sand at 80g. If you go to the finer grits, you are burnishing the surface, and the stain seems to just sit on top, not absorb.

[Tom Fischer]

2 1/2x5" rails are pretty big. I would dado 7/8" and through drill 3/4" weep holes (as big as possible) to let the moisture out (maybe one weep hole every foot). If you split the bottom rail, you will need fasteners (stainless) to hold the fence panel together. White cedar is stable, but not that stable. McFeeleys (http://www.mcfeelys.com/305-stainless-screws) is a good supplier of exterior fasteners.
Here's a white cedar fence that I made 5 years ago (80' X 32'). All the ballusters are M&T. I didn't put in weep holes, but I probably should have. Fortunately, the bottom M&Ts are very tight, I don't think they collect water ... yet.
Fence posts are set in Quarry-processed (QP) gravel. That's gravel plus lime. Buys your posts a few more years. The posts move slightly with frost heaves, but not that obvious.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6125/6017210968_eedf10561d_b.jpg

[Jamie Buxton]

On the bottom rail, reverse the tongue-and-groove so that the tongue is on the rail. There's no holes to trap water and leaves. You can even make the tongue a little decorative. Something like this....

[Andrew Joiner]

Look around your area. In most areas of the world any flat horizontal area will weather and crack first, even cedar. A flat surface will let water sit on it. You will see all the sloped areas of wood trim ( typically sills) are surviving better than a flat horizontal area.

Jamie is on to a good detail, but I would bevel the flat surfaces. The end grain will suck up water if built like the detail, so that's the first area that will rot.

I'd use 2 individual rails with beveled top edges. The vertical slats would sandwiched in between with stainless screws.

[joe milana]

Around here, they use a style depicted in my pathetic, not to scale, 30 second drawing. It's called a picture frame fence. The bottom stretcher is a 2 x 4 laid on side. The picket is captured between two 1 x 2's and toenailed. Looks great from both sides when new, but starts to fall apart from freeze/thaw in a couple years. Good for the fence companies I guess...
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