WOP problems

[Scott Hackler]

I am fairly new to using WOP (again, because I couldn't get it to work like i wanted the first time) and had some decent success with the last few projects....BUT, I have recently had a couple pieces that even after a couple days in my 65 degrees heated shop and they were still tacky. :(

So off it came with a bit of thinner, I shook the heck out of the can and am going to see what tomorrow brings. FYI, this can is less than 1/2 full now and I apply it with a clean paper towel each time using a drag method after completely soaking the the piece.

[John Keeton]

Scott, what did you do first? BLO? Just curious. Weather has a lot to do with it, too. Even in a heated shop the humidity could be high.

[Scott Hackler]

I might have BLO'd them first, but I would have wiped them dry and waited overnight. I think after Kelly Dunn suggested skipping BLO because its already in WOP and that BLO might attract water if and when I start selling things that will go to more humid parts of the country. I always used it to "pop" the grain and truth be told, I almost always poured BLO inside the forms and made sure the inside was coated as well. ???????

[John Keeton]

Scott, my experience is that BLO extends the cure time substantially. I usually use shellac over the BLO, and wait 3 days before applying WOP. If I start sooner, the first coat will take at least 2 days to dry.

[Richard Allen]

I like the wipe on - wipe off method. If I let the stuff sit for even 10 minutes before wiping it off the stuff can be a mess.

Also you didn't mention the wood species. WOP doesn't work for me on some of the exotic oily woods, though sometimes you can push WOP to work with trouble woods. What is "push". Heat the surface as you would a friction polish so that the surface of the finish is dry before you take it off the lathe. This method can cause problems, but sometimes I just can't think of any other way to give a finish a chance to work.

[Scott Hackler]

Yeah that's what I thought. I am just not waiting long enough in between different finishes. Thanks.

[David DeCristoforo]

Personally, I don't care for "WOP" although I realize it has many proponents. So my advice would be to toss the stuff and get some "real" finish...

[Jim Burr]

Thousands of "real" turners use WOP on a daily basis. It could be an old batch, no telling how long it's been on the shelf. BLO acts as a carrier in many cases...in many it's not necessary. Thickness is hard to gauge..I just finished a couple (5) saltboxes and each coat (6), indoors took a day and a half to cure. Age of the can first and weather next.

[Scott Hackler]

I always favored lacquer because I am impatient and want to build up coats FAST, but the last can of (....Rustoleum brand... oooops) lacquer is hit or miss on orange peel. So I broke out the WOP and started using it again. It's sure a different beast than the brush on poly I have used on flat work in the past. I guess it just takes more time and longer cure times.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Scott I quit using BLO because it just took to long to dry. I talked with Ernie Conover and he told me BLO really shouldn't be topcoated till it has dried for at least 14 to 21 days in his opinion. He said to many woodturners get impatient and there is no such thing as a fast finish. Anyway I just quit using it. If I want a oil finish it is antique oil or polymerized tung oil.

[Alan Trout]

Scott, I would avoid the BLO it just dries way to slow. What I have used that I like because of the rapid cure is the General Finishes Gel WOP Top Coat. It cures really fast. When I want a soft satin finish it is what I use and I also use it on the inside of my vessels. I also have a bottle of the General Finishes "Wood Turners Finish" which is a water base wop. People that have used it say it dries very fast so that may be worth a try. I am going to try it to see how well it works.

Good Luck

Alan

[Prashun Patel]

BLO can often be topcoated within 24hours if it's wiped on. If it soaks in, it needs more time. IMHO, a wipe on coat is all that's needed to pop the grain - and the effect is less noticeable if you use an amber colored finish like a darker shellac or a non-poly varnish.

I would increase the drying temp of the room and use less BLO next time.

I know a lot of folks here are fans of WOP for its simplicity. However, if you are building yr finishes to a high gloss, I highly suggest you give an alkyd or phenolic varnish (like Waterlox) a try. THey can be thinned with Mineral Spirits to create a wipe on varnish that is as easy to apply as WOP. They dry harder and more glassy (vs plasticky). On gloss finishes, I just think they look better than poly. They're also easier to buff.

Waterlox Original Sealer Finish is already thinned to wipe on consistency and has a deeper amber color than BLO. So, if you like BLO followed by WOP, I suggest you try this product in lieu of both.

[John Keeton]

Waterlox is an excellent finish, but it has a notoriously short shelf life. Just keep that in mind given the number of turnings you may finish within six months or less.

[Prashun Patel]

Yeah, yr right John. I decant my Waterlox into 2oz or 4oz jars and it keeps very well. If you don't have access to that, you can use BlOXygen before resealing the can. It's also a might more expensive and harder to obtain locally than BORG Poly. But for those special pieces, perhaps it's worthy of yr consideration.

[Scott Hackler]

Thanks for the different ideas. I am making mental notes.

[Bill Bolen]

Every time I've had troubles with WOP drying the can is below the half way mark and sometimes getting a bit old. Just add some mineral spirits and that should bring it right back to normal.

[Karl Card]

Thanks for the different ideas. I am making mental notes.


Same here, I learn something new every time I read a thread about finishes. My personal favorite is Deft lacquer, it is self leveling and is very clear but to me it is hard to work with on flat surfces due to it dries to touch so fast.. What I mean by flat surfaces is that I only use Deft now to "dip" my finsihed pen blanks in for a finish.

[Russell Neyman]

As a former factory rep for Valspar I can tell you that old stuff tends to have curing problems. The actual manufacturing date will be hidden within the lengthly codes on the can. In many cases the first two numbers or letters are usually the month and the second two are the year. You'll be able to figure it out when you see "10" or "11". If you see an "09" in the code it was really old. Other manufacturers use a single digit month code (1-0 for Jan-Oct, then N and D for Nov-Dec) followed by a two-digit year. The final bunch of numbers on these codes is an actual batch number, since they make several batches in a single day.

Like milk and eggs, checking the manufactured date on all cans is a good idea on all finishing products.

I'm like you, Scott, I like the quick turnaround of the lacquer and have bounced back and forth between spraying lacquer and wipe on poly. My shop isn't particularly dust-free and a five-minute cure means less gets stuck in the finish.

[Dick Wilson]

Scott, I am no expert on finishes and particularily WOP on turnings. You might PM Matt Hutchinson. He is a friend and is one of the best finishers I know with a lot of knowledge about WOP.

[John Keeton]

I think the important thing to remember about finishes is that each of us has different techniques, varying amounts of time and patience, and a desire for varied results. What is acceptable to me, may not be to the next person, and so on.

There are many, many finishes, and one could drift from one to the next until their finishing cabinet was full of partially used cans. It seems a better method is to find something (or more than one depending on your needs) you think might work for you, and use it long enough to become knowledgeable about its characteristics and experienced enough to get consistent results that will work with your needs.

[Donny Lawson]

Scott, I used to use BLO but started having problems with it not drying fast enough and it did mess up a few projects so I learned my lesson and haven't bought any BLO in years and probally won't.

[Bill Wyko]

I've never had much luck with WOP. I prefer a couple coats of Shellac then wait a day (here in the desert) then I do 3 to 4 coats of Minwax Tung oil (Actually about 45% tung oil) . With Tung oil they say to let it set for 10 minutes then wipe it off. No way, I wipe it off in about a minute. Then I recoat every 24 hrs. Pops the grain and has a wonderfully natural look.

[Scott Hackler]

One of our club members (who does great segmented vessels) mentioned Gunstock Oil as what he like to use and his work is very nicely finished. I bought some and OMG does it stink (smell)! I think diesel fuel would smell better! Anyway, I thought it stunk up the shop so bad I vowed to never use it again! FYI

[Tom Hartranft]

Hi Scott ... I chuckled when I read your post about stinking gunstock oil.

I use Tru-Oil (which is a gunstock oil) on refinishing saw handles and wood carvings and recently used it on pens and bottle stoppers and have been pleased with the results. It does smell up the whole basement where my woodshop is located; temperature typically 65 degrees and humidity typically 60-65% summer and 50-55% winter. I was especially pleased with the pen and bottle stopper finishing results this summer. I reverse spin the fully-sanded bottle stoppers and mandrel-mounted pen turnings and leave my 2-bulb 300 W halogen light fixture on for 30 minutes hanging above my lathe; no sanding; add 2nd coat to spinning pieces; halogen light on for 30 more minutes; repeat process up to ~ 6 or 7 coats then let dry fully for 12 hours and my bottle stoppers and pens take on a very nice and durable finish. I only put 3 or so coats of Tru-Oil on my saw handles and wood carvings. I do lightly sand between coats for my saw handles to avoid visible 'runs' of the Tru-Oil since I can't spin them to smooth out the finish; no sanding on carvings as they just soak up the Tru-Oil and leave no runs.

Anyway, thought I'd add to your growing postings on WOP with a "I like Tru-Oil" vote in spite of its strong smell.


Tom

[Bill Wyko]

I'll add too by saying, I've never used or heard of this finish. PM me more info if you don't mind.

[Terry Beadle]

When the shop temp is below 80, then I add a little Japan Drier to the BLO.

[John Beaver]

Just a thought.
For those who use BLO, are you thinning it ? It's recommended to thin 1:2 with mineral spirits.

[Scott Hackler]

Just a thought.
For those who use BLO, are you thinning it ? It's recommended to thin 1:2 with mineral spirits.

I haven't been. Just use it straight out of the can, which is coated on the top with a thick semi-dry sludge of spilled BLO! :)

[ken gibbs]

John,

Can you help me out here? Two questions:
1) What is BLO
2) What is WOP?

It would be of much benefit to use appropriate grammar by using the full name of a noun and THEN using the abbreviation. Thanks. This would add enjoyment of those of who enjoy reading this forum.

[John Keeton]

Ken, BLO is boiled linseed oil, and WOP is wipe on poly. Unfortunately, you will not change the habits of the masses. Acronyms are in integral part of our society, and for better or worse, they are an integral part of the "lingo" on internet forums.

Edit - there are a few "lists" on the creek, but this one might help. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?56320-List-Of-Acronyms-Updated-4-17-2007 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?56320-List-Of-Acronyms-Updated-4-17-2007)

[Prashun Patel]

I'll defer to John's experience, but I use a fair amount of BLO and find that thinning it with mineral spirits causes it to bleed more than normal. Personally, I don't like BLO to soak in because it increases drying time and does little (to my eye) for the color vis-a-vis a lighter wipe-down. However, if you are interested in increasing the mobility and penetration of the BLO, I think u might do better to heat it b4 applying instead of thinning it.