No torque - belt adjustment or motor?

[Kathy Marshall]

Little by little my lathe has been losing torque, mostly it was only noticable on large pieces when it started to get a little easier to bog it down. I assumed it just needed a belt adjustment since the belts were loose in certain rpm ranges. My lathe is a Delta 46-613 with a Reeves drive variable speed. It's now gotten to the point that I can barely turn on it. I managed to core a bowl with it today, but it was very slow going. I turned the whole thing at about 400 rpms since anything higher bogged down with the lightest of cuts. The farther from the center, the worse it is. It's bad enough now that when I was sanding the largest bowl, just sanding with some pressure was enough to slow it down.
I'm now thinking a loose belt wouldn't account for that much of a loss of power and that the motor may be going. Do motors go out like that, progressively losing power? or do they just stop working at all?

I can try adjusting the belts, but I have a feeling it's not going to be an easy fix. Does anyone know how to adjust the belts so the tension is correct at all rpms?

Thanks!

[Richard Jones]

Kathy,

I'm not familiar with your lathe, but here's what I'd check, if you haven't done so already........

* are the pulleys tight on the shafts?

* if there is a tensioner/spring assembly, is it functioning correctly?

* is the belt in good shape?

My bet is that it isn't the motor............

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Rich

[Gary Max]

Don't throw anything at me------------------- you have outgrown that lathe------------- time to get some Mustard.:eek:

[Rick Markham]

Don't throw anything at me------------------- you have outgrown that lathe------------- time to get some Mustard.:eek:

Big yeller monster! :D Don't worry Gary, I'm good at dodging things.

Well it's official, Kathy has worn her lathe out... not even it can keep up with her! I hope it's a simple fix Kathy and I hope you get it running real soon, or Get a shiny new one. (Then you can turn two bowls at once and leave the rest of us in the dust)

[Brian Libby]

My guess is a worn out belt, not the motor.

[Roger Chandler]

+1 on the belt or the tensioner .............a new lathe wouldn't hurt! :D

[Bill Bulloch]

If you inspect the belt you are probably going to find out that it has streched to much. Reeves Drives are good at this. I have one (Jet) that I rarely ever use now, but when I was using it regularly I had to change the belt every other month or so. When I ordered them I would order four at a time so as to be prepared for the eventual. Unless you just want to use this as an excuss to get that American Beauty you have been envying, just stock up on belts and have fun turning.

[James Combs]

+2 on the belt or tension-er. Motors don't normally lose torque gradually. They either run or not, usually no in between.

[Fred Belknap]

My guess is that you need a new belt. When I had a lathe with a reeves drive the rpm would increase and the torque would go down if the belt was about worn out. My experience with motors is they run or don't. Hope you find your problem quick.

[John Keeton]

Kathy, your lathe is tired and overworked!!!!:D My guess is with the others - a belt. You might also want to check the tension on the reeves system. I can't recall the nomenclature, but the sides of the pulley need to come together correctly.

[Bob Bergstrom]

Replacing the top belt on that system requires removing the spindle. Mignt as well do the bearings while you have it out. The other option is to cut it and use a link belt. I ran one for a few yeas with no problems. As I mentioned in your coring thrad, you might try automotive belt dressing and see if that cuts down on the slippage. The link belt allows you to remove one link to tighten up the system.

[Tim Leiter]

+1 on the automotive belt dressing until you can get a new belt.

[Josh Bowman]

Kathy,
Your poor lathe! Over worked and under paid.:D
Having used a Shopsmith for 20+ years, it has a Reeves drive and at times can be aggravating. As much as you turn, I'd recommend taking a few hours and replacing the belts. Although the motor could be an issue, it's not my first thought. However it may be easier to check for a damaged motor winding than tearing down the lathe. I wish I was closer, because I would think anything of taking the belt off of the motor, turning it on and with a leather gloved hand slowly grasping the pulley drive of the motor or using a board and bearing down on the pulley drive while the motor is running. It shouldn't stop or slow down much. It it passed that test, I'd get the Reeves adjustment instructions for my lathe and begin the tear down. It shouldn't be that hard. The key, at least with the Shopsmith was to set the drive at hi speed then turn it off and start the tear down. Not really a lot of small parts in the Shopsmith Reeves, so I'd expect yours to be about the same. If yours is the same as the SS Reeves, it could be the "sheave" (pulleys what expands) on the motor, at least on the the SS it has a large spring that if it were broken, would cause some of these issues. But I'd expect to see speed control issues also. You could have a bearing that is causing too much friction and over loading the lathe, when the belts are off spin all the shafts that should spin easy. But my money is on the drive belt slipping.

[Russell Neyman]

Not familiar with that specific lathe, but I know that the Shopsmith-type variable pulley system tends to "polish" itself, so when you're in there, you might scuff up the surfaces, too.

[Curt Fuller]

If you can remove the cover over your Reeve's drive, turn on the lathe and adjust the speed while the lathe is running. Watch the belts and see if they get loose as you change the speed. They shouldn't, and there isn't any adjustment really on a Reeve's drive. The Reeve's drive is designed with one pulley to slide apart or together as you turn the speed adjustment and the other pulley to follow with a spring tensioner on it's shaft. There's a good chance that the sliding pulley with the spring tensioner is gummed up with a combination of grease and fine sawdust and not following like it should. That would be about the only reason the belt isn't adjusting itself unless the motor is actually loose on its mount. The shaft and pulley can be a bugger to take apart and clean because the spring tensioner is a very strong spring. You might just try cleaning the part of the shaft that's exposed and see if that helps. As for lubrication, my Oliver has a grease zerk at the end of tensioner shaft to keep it lubed. But some lathes don't and you have to spray a little light weight lube on the shafts occasionally, something like lithium grease. If all the parts are moving freely in the Reeve's drive while it's running and belt is staying tight, then I would think it's a problem related to the motor.

After typing this I read your post on your first coring. Coring is about as taxing on any lathe drive system as you can get. If I remember right, most coring systems recommend a lathe with some serious HP. It could be that you're just pushing your lathe beyond what it can do.

[Dan Forman]

I know nothing about Reeve's drives, but from the sound of things, this is the best excuse short of a complete meltdown that you are likely to get for a nice lathe upgrade. Given the new coring set, and the strain it will place on the Gray Lady, might be time to give her a break and get something with EVS and a little more horsepower. If the finances aren't there yet, hope you can get the old gal back in working order soon.

Dan

[Josh Bowman]

Kathy,
I was thinking, a little while back you had a no start problem. You found the 'slow start' relay to be the cause. You don't think bypassing it caused a problem do you?

[Jeff Nicol]

Kathy, I agree with curt on this one, the pulleys are most likely not moving freely to allow the speed to change smoothly and to change at all. The belts or belt can wear out but you would still have some speed changes and at certain points when the pulleys are at their smallest is where you would possibly see slipping but not real loose or sloppy belts. So if you are going to go through and clean everything you may as well put new belts on too. The shined up pulley surfaces really have little to do with things and the smooth surface makes better contact with the belts so scuffing them up will just wear on the belts and potentially wear the pulley out sooner.

Dry graphite powder works well for a lubricant and does not attract dust like oils and grease. Just keep it blown out with air every few days and you should be OK.

New lathe is best fix, good luck,

Jeff

[Kathy Marshall]

Thanks for all the suggestions!
It looks like it is a belt issue (what a relief! I looked up a replacement motor and Delta gets $650 for one!). The belts weren't just loose, they weren't even just sloppy, they were barely making contact with the pulleys. In fact I was able to remove the belt on the motor side without even loosening the tension.
Made a trip to Napa Auto and was able to get the motor belt, the spindle belt will be in tomorrow. I almost went with a link belt, but they wanted $19 a foot and I'd neet 6 feet :eek:! Needless to say I went with the standard V belt.
I installed the belt on the motor side when I got home and it was enough of an improvement that I was able to finish turning the largest ash bowl :D. When I finished with that, I tore apart the headstock so it will be ready to install the new belt as soon as I get home, and still have time to test it out! The disassembly went very well, everything unscrewed or came off fairly easy and no pieces were lost in the shavings!
The probem with the belts wasn't so much due to stretching, it was more that the sides of the belts wore down making them narrower so they sat deeper in the v of the pulley. The old belts measured 7/16" for the spindle belt and 1/2" for the motor belt, I didn't measure the new belt but it was a little wider than the motor belt, so I suspect the spindle belt has lost over a 1/6" in width.
Hopefully this will help other turners that may run into this problem.

[Curt Fuller]

Glad you got it up and going again. Just out of curiosity, does your Delta have two belts, one from the motor to one side of the Reeves setup and another between the two Reeves pulleys? On my Oliver there is only one belt, the spring loaded sliding pulley is on the end of the motor shaft. That's why there is no belt adjustment.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Glad to see ya got it figured out Kathy.

[Kathy Marshall]

Glad you got it up and going again. Just out of curiosity, does your Delta have two belts, one from the motor to one side of the Reeves setup and another between the two Reeves pulleys? On my Oliver there is only one belt, the spring loaded sliding pulley is on the end of the motor shaft. That's why there is no belt adjustment.
Thanks Curt!
Yes, there are 2 belts from the motor to the reeves drive and from the spindle to the reeves drive. The reeves pulley has a floating center, as one belt is tightened and pulled deeper into the V, it forces the floating center towards the other belt forcing it to run higher in the V. The explanation may not be technically correct, but that's how I see it.
When both belts are worn, everything just kinda flops around :eek:!

[Sid Matheny]

After looking at the parts lists I see why you were having problems. Don't think I have ever seen a reeves drive that used 2 belts.
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/delta-46613-type-wood-lathe-parts-c-3275_9659_14238.html

Sid

[Dale Coons]

Have the same lathe. If its not a gummed up tensioner or belt (the most likely culprits) it may really be time for a new lathe. My SIL tried to change the speed on mine a couple of years ago while the motor was off and manage to bust one side of the pulleys. Delta doesn't sell the pulleys separately anymore--the 'kit' was a couple hundred dollars and about a 6 month wait while it was on 'back order'. Good luck, you do beautiful work!

[Paul Williams]

Kathy, I am glad you got that fixed. An open question for the people familiar with that lathe. Wouldn't this be a natural for a veritable speed motor conversion?

[Don Alexander]

not only a skilled turner but a lathe mechanic as well :D:D:D:D:D:D