Source for steel plates

[Mike Cruz]

I need/want to weight down my lathe, and have been thinking of "with what". I got an idea from someone else with the same lathe to put weight lifting weights in/on it. He suggested CL. I scoured all my local CL areas, and the cheapest I found was 40 cents a pound. I want/need 500-600 lbs, so that becomes cost prohibitive. The suggester found his at 20 cents per pound...a price I'd be willing to pay... Anyway, I got to thinking about what would stack well, and use my space wisely, and steel press plates came to mind since I have 4 of them. A while back, I remember seeing them on sale somewhere (don't remember where) and picked them up for really cheap...like I have no use for those but at that price I might FIND a use...like under $10 for 2 kind of cheap. I just looked online to get more and they are like $60 for two!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I KNOW I didn't pay that much...not even close.

So, my question is... Does anyone know of a source that sells plate steel or something easily stackable for a reasonable price? Thanks for your suggestions in advance.

[Jamie Buxton]

Sand or gravel is just about the lowest cost per pound. Builder stores sell it sealed in nice paper bags for a nickel per pound. Garden supply places sell it loose for a couple pennies a pound.

[Peter Quinn]

I needed to weight down a slot mortiser. I built a form box that fit the spot, poured it in concrete. Real cheap, real heavy. I threw rocks from the yard in to take up space, mixed the pour loose enough to get around all the aggregate easily. Not sure if that works for a lathe? Works for tractors too though.

[Mike Cruz]

Yeah, Jamie, I know that sand and gravel are cheap, but just not as heavy as steel. And I'm trying to get 500-600 pounds into a cabinet and on a shelf. I think I could get about 200-300 of stone/sand.

Peter, I really need to make a concrete weight for my 3 point hitch. I've been contemplating it for years now...time to just DO IT!!!!

[Mark Ashmeade]

Why mix the concrete? Just stack the bags of Portland Cement. They's basically powered Limestone, so very heavy, and will go hard all of their own making over time. DAMIKT :)

[Steve Kohn]

I used 5 bags of pea gravel, @ 60 lbs per bag, to weigh down my lathe.

[Stephen Cherry]

Maybe try Modern Junk in Baltimore. If you need to cut it, my plasma cutter is good for 3/8 inch.

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[Jamie Buxton]

Yeah, Jamie, I know that sand and gravel are cheap, but just not as heavy as steel. And I'm trying to get 500-600 pounds into a cabinet and on a shelf. I think I could get about 200-300 of stone/sand....

So you want heavy and cheap and high density.
...maybe you can get only two out of three....

[Mike Cruz]

Jamie, you may be right...but I can try can't I? :o

[Mike Cruz]

Steve, thanks for that! I'll give them a call on Monday to see what they have. I also got to thinking about the recycling centers. They pay people for metal. Maybe I could find something of use at those places...

[Ted Calver]

Try farm auctions for used tractor suitcase weights

[Mike Cruz]

Great idea, Ted! Those are actually what I'm looking for. I just can't imagine getting them at a decent price... I would assume that those get snatched up pretty easily. Skid loader plates would be awesome, too.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Mike
Look into railroad equipment, used rail is often there for the taking cost more to remove then value. All you need is a torch. Current price on scrap is about $0.11 per pound for steel plate. Tom

[Stephen Cherry]

The last time I was there this place was packed top to bottom with metals, and they are very friendly also. They also had thick aluminum plate, which would be maybe be a great router table.

What's your objective with this? Is the machine moving, or flexing? If the base is resonating or flexing, I'd be more inclined to glue concrete pavers to the inside of the sides of the cabinet base, or cast concrete in place onto the sides. Or build a new base as a steel-concrete structure.

[Mike Cruz]

Had someone else mention RR equipment, too. Actually, he mentioned tracks. Not sure how they would stack... I don't have a torch, either. Do you suggest I go to my local train station? Got one 15 minutes from my house...

[Paul Symchych]

How about used sporting goods stores like Play it Again Sports for the weights used by weight lifting machines?

[jared herbert]

If you can find a salvage yard for farm tractors and combines, they will have a lot of stackable weights, if for an older unit they will be the cheapest. I used to buy them for about $10 for a 70 to 90 weight

[Mike Cruz]

Jered, that would be awesome...Now to find one in my area...

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Mike
Is this for your PM90 lathe that you rebuilt, and weights are going in both ends of base cabinet? If the RR rails are out. Used engine cylinder heads or cast iron flywheels. Any metal recyclers near you? In Portland, OR. if I need some small pieces of metal I first check with my metal recyclers, they let me look around for something that will work for me. I pay a little more then they pay for the scrap for for this service. Tom

[Mike Cruz]

Yeah, Thomas, it is for my PM90. Actually, I wasn't planning on putting anything in the tailstock end for a couple of reasons: One, I can't get "into" it...no door. Not sure if there is even a bottom to the tailstock cabinet. Two, any movement of the lathe (caused by out of balance blanks) is coming from the headstock end, so that, I imagine, is all I would need to weigh down.

I've had a discussion with someone else who added risers to his PM90 and he says, that along with extra bolting down (headstock end only), and adding about 500 lbs in the headstock cabinet and shelf, the thing won't budge...

Tomorrow, I plan to look at the local metal recyclers. May just give them a call to see if they have anything on hand of interest. May have to go browse...

[Phil Thien]

How about my wife's cornbread muffins? They wouldn't stack that well, but you wouldn't need that many of them, either.

[Brian Backner]

Mike,

Do you belong to a gun club, or know someone that does? I can get all the lead I want from the indoor range. There's usually 10-20 TONS of it sitting around in piles out back. They usually sift out the backstop sand pit in the indoor range once monthly and come up with 400-500#. The club used to sell it for scrap value but prices have dropped and with the cost of gasoline now, it isn't worth the effort.

Brian

[Mike Cruz]

Great idea, Brian. I'll check to see where my closest gun clubs are. I know there is one about 5 miles or less away from me. But not sure about range specs on them... Thanks!

[Mike Cruz]

Well, over an hour on the phone and computer, looking up and calling up shooting ranges, gun clubs, recycling centers...every place I could think of (sorry, Steve, I don't feel like driving into inner city Baltimore...good idea if it were closer, though, thanks...). Turns out there is ONE place that will sell me scrap...at 35 cents a pound. Not dirt cheap, but may "have" to work. My other option is to wait around for specific auctions, spend the day waiting for what I am interested in to come up, and HOPE that I get a decent price (better than 35 cents a pound) on tractor/skid loader plates... Ugh...

Thanks, everyone for your suggestions. I really do appreciate the help.

[John T Barker]

So many good ideas I just want to throw one in. When I think heavy I think dense lead. Were the weights for old windows made out of lead? Find someplace that kept the windows pulled out of some old buildings...I know universities upgrade stuff like that. Who gets to haul away the old stuff and sell it? (Rutgers just kept everything and sold it themselves.) I would hope out your way old building stuff is cheaper than in city areas.

John

[Eric DeSilva]

Hopefully the link works. Local estate auction--there's an 8' x 8' x 1" road plate currently going for about $20. By my reckoning, that's about 0.7 cents per pound. Problem is moving it. And cutting it up. I think my plasma cutter maxes out at 1/2". I've got a cutting torch you can borrow, but I'm not even sure my Acetylene B tanks are recommended for the gas rate needed to supply the torch. I've heard, once you get it started, you can shut off acetylene and just cut with oxygen, but that is beyond my actual experience...

http://rasmuscatalog.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi

[Mike Cruz]

No, the link didn't work, Eric. Not sure if you meant .7 cents a pound or 7 cents a pound, but either way, that's cheap! I think I'd blow the bank (meaning blow whatever money I'd be saving by going the route of this big plate) with gas money, borrowing the tools required for cutting it up, and the weekend it would take to cut it. Cool idea, though. That was certainly thinking outside the box! Eric, ya know, you've never come by to see the planer all set up in my shop...

[Josiah Bartlett]

An old, seized up V8 engine is a good dead weight you can usually get for practically nothing if you ask around. Most of them weigh 400-500 pounds, and they take on a rather convenient cube form when you strip off all the accessories. You can always fill the oil pan and cylinders with sand or concrete if you need more density.

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, Josiah, but the space I have to put the "weight" wouldn't handle a go-cart motor, let alone a V8. But, again, I like the way you're thinkin'...

[Eric DeSilva]

$0.007 it was--the 8' x 8' x 1" plate weighs in at about 2600 lbs. I hate seeing things go that cheap, but I can't really do much with 1" plate either.

[John Lanciani]

Hi Mike,

One more place to try if you're looking for lead is tire shops. They'll have buckets full of old wheel weights that they will probably sell for scrap price to get rid of them.

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, John, thanks a lot! Now I'v got to place a bunch of calls to all the tire places in the area... What are you doing to me, man? Geesh! Didn't I make enough phone calls to all the shooting ranges and gun clubs and recycling centers? Now, I've got to call all the tire places, too? No rest for the weary... ;) :D That actually might be a great idea, John. I'll make some calls...

[Mike Cruz]

Wow, Eric, that IS cheap! Yeah, I hate to see it go for so cheap, too. But at 2,600 my tractor can't even lift it. So, I'd have to cut it up into pieces I could use, and that would leave me with a 2000 lb piece that I STILL couldn't move... Then, what to do with all that extra? But it is such a good deal...

[Eric DeSilva]

The sad thing is that part of me feels like at some point in my life I will, in fact, need an 8' x 8' x 1" slab of steel. And it is going to cost me a lot. I think the auction place may also have some 5/8ths inch plates that are somewhat easier to handle, but "easier" is still relative!

[John Lanciani]

Thanks, John, thanks a lot! Now I'v got to place a bunch of calls to all the tire places in the area... What are you doing to me, man? Geesh! Didn't I make enough phone calls to all the shooting ranges and gun clubs and recycling centers? Now, I've got to call all the tire places, too? No rest for the weary... ;) :D That actually might be a great idea, John. I'll make some calls...

If it were me, I wouldn't bother to call. Find a local independent shop and stop by on Friday afternoon with a case or two of the local favorite brew and barter a deal. I'd be surprized if you didn't end up with what you need for about 10 pounds per bottle. Don't waste time with one of the national chains as I'm sure that they have rules prohibiting such a deal.

[curtis rosche]

Mike, you said you were only putting the weight in the headstock end? i would advise against that. i added about 250lbs to the headstock end of my lathe when i set up the motor and everything, now if i put a out of ballance peice on it, the tailstock end walks the floor, cause its the lightest point. most people use sand cause it absorbs the vibration where steel just resonates. also, it would seem to the most good if attached directly to the bed some how. otherwise the base of the lathe might be solid and not moving, but all the way up at the top it still vibrates and moves.

[curtis rosche]

also, if you feel like being patient. wait till the spring, come to the mud sales by me. you can get tractor plates for cheap, and tons of scrap item for cheap. one time i got a 130lbs machine vise for $20.

[Mike Cruz]

Curtis, my tailstock end is a closed cabinet. I don't even know if it has a bottom on it. IIRC, during my restoration of this lathe, I don't remember there being a bottom of the cabinet. So, unless I take the lathe apart, turn it over, weld a bottom on it, and make some sort of access door, nothing is going into that cabinet. The lathe is bolted down also. So, the tailstock end will not walk anywhere.

And just so that you, or anyone else is getting the wrong impression, the lathe does not have a lot of vibration. It is steady and runs quite smoothly. The challenge has been on big blanks that are not yet balanced that I can't turn the rpms up too high, or the headstock end will wobble around...even bolted down. But I think I've already found a solution to it...more bolting down.

The base has four holes to bolt it down. Two on the headstock end, and two on the tailstock end. These were, I can only imagine, to keep what was primarily meant to be a spindle lathe from "walking". The lathe was originally a 12" lathe. An out of balance 11" blank wouldn't make this lathe shake or wobble much if any at all. But because I put risers on it, making it an 18" lathe, the center of gravity has changed. The base simply wasn't "meant" for these demands. I have added 5 angle irons (would have made it 6, but because of its orientation to the wall, I couldn't get to the one corner) to the headstock end. Again, speaking to someone else that has done this on this same kind of lathe, this makes a HUGE difference. So, I will let ya'll know how that works out this weekend. DAMP is getting together yet again here.

[Mike Cruz]

Curtis, if I haven't found my weights by then, I might take you up on that...

[curtis rosche]

Curtis, if I haven't found my weights by then, I might take you up on that...

even if you have found some by then, stop by, you never know what you will find and theres tons of free wood at my place

[Dan Hintz]

theres tons of free wood at my place
Now you're just teasing us... ;)

[ray hampton]

how much do steel weight compare to wood ? why not stack wood on the table ?

[curtis rosche]

Now you're just teasing us... ;)
nope, true offer, 10 acres of oak and cherry and poplar that hasnt been cut in for a few years, tons of down trees

[Mike Cruz]

Ray, steel weights a LOT more than wood. Unless I was going to get Lignum Vitae...but that would cost more than steel.

[curtis rosche]

sandstone and quartz weigh a goodbit

[Kevin Presutti]

Mike,
I have been following this post since you first posted this thread. I have question or two for you. Is your lathe sitting on a concrete floor? If so is it not bolted to the floor? My day job is commercial construction, I prefer casework, trim, doors and fixtures. I have worked on many supermarkets and many these days have bakeries these days. They use monster Hobart mixers and are extremly heavy. When we place them and the electricians come and test the unit prior to us mounting it to the floor with no flour, water, nothing in it, they vibrate. When we mount them to the floor and start them up, they just hummm along. With the lathe having such a high center of gravity they are somewhat suceptible to vibration especially since what is rotating 38 or 40 inches off the floor. You may consider this, I would use drop in anchors as you will simply need a bolt to fasten and if you wish to move the lathe, remove the bolt and there is nothing sticking up out of the floor. :o

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, Kevin, but no, my lathe is not on concrete floors. The floor is 2 x 12s one foot on center with 3/4" plywood subfloor and 3/4" hickory tongue and groove flooring on top. When I had the building designed, I specifically didn't want concrete floors because of the coldness and fatigue factors. I have to admit, for this reason, a concrete floor would have been better, though... Originally, I bolted the lathe to the floor with the factory bolt holes/flanges on the ends of the lathe. Just yesterday, I added angle irons around the headstock cabinet, and bolted those to the floor. I'm hopefull that this will make a difference. I think that it will because the factory bolt/flanges keep the lathe from walking, but do little to keep the lathe from side to side motion...whidh is what happens when you have an out of balance blank on the lathe.

I'll keep you all informed as to how it performs this Sunday when the guys come over...

[Kevin Presutti]

Mike,
Glad to hear you have it bolted to the floor and it sounds like the floor is quite sturdy. You may want to put a brace to the wall at both ends, seems as though it would help with that torsional vibration up top. Of course your lathe would have to be against a wall. :D Best of luck!

Kevin

[Mike Cruz]

Here is how it sits, Kevin...might be difficult.

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[Stephen Cherry]

Here is how it sits, Kevin...might be difficult.

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Where's the stripe?

[Mike Cruz]

That stipe is so...80's...

[Dan Hintz]

215093
I know that's an old pic... no shavings, no tools stuck in the wall.

[Mike Cruz]

Yeah, that was right after I finished the restoration. It was the first pic I could find to show its orientation to the wall...

[Paul Grothouse]

MIke,

If you really want an experience you can go to this place in Reading PA:

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en&rlz=1R2RNSN_enUS394&gs_upl=1980l4401l0l4573l10l8l0l2l2l0l200l980l2.4.1 l9l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1233&bih=817&wrapid=tlif132339705052210&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=l%26b+metals&fb=1&gl=us&hq=l%26b+metals&hnear=0x89c44914e178b151:0x2843ab27c28db19f,Walnut port,+PA&cid=6253554050788929984

This place is an experience, it is an industrial junkyard. One of my friends calls this place Disneyland for Engineers.

[Mike Cruz]

Paul, I wish it were closer to me! I'd burn up my budget on gas money. That is a good 3 hours from me...

On another note, I was in town to day, and thought I would drop by my local fabrication shop on the off chance that they might sell me scraps. Bottom line, no...not anything of real use to me. He said that these days, they use just about every little piece they can... BUT he suggested going to a builders supply place and getting 1" rebar. He thinks I could get it cheap enough. For the cabinet, I might try to get 18" lengths and just fill up the cabinet. He suggested making bricks of rebar and concrete. I might give that a shot... Gotta find out the price on the rebar...

[Warren Johnson]

Mike,

Years ago i built a retaining wall and needed rebar. I went to Reliable in Frederick. Bought the dia. I needed and they cut it to length with one of those big cutters, sure saved on using a hacksaw. This might be an option.

[Dan Hintz]

MIke,

If you really want an experience you can go to this place in Reading PA:

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en&rlz=1R2RNSN_enUS394&gs_upl=1980l4401l0l4573l10l8l0l2l2l0l200l980l2.4.1 l9l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1233&bih=817&wrapid=tlif132339705052210&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=l%26b+metals&fb=1&gl=us&hq=l%26b+metals&hnear=0x89c44914e178b151:0x2843ab27c28db19f,Walnut port,+PA&cid=6253554050788929984

This place is an experience, it is an industrial junkyard. One of my friends calls this place Disneyland for Engineers.
I'll be bookmarking that place and checking it out some day... thanks, Paul :)

[Mike Cruz]

Warren, do you mean Riliable Recycling Centers?

[Mike Cruz]

Okay, just went by a scrap metal place. I can get steel plates for 35 cents a lb, which is more than I wanted to spend, but somewhat reasonable considering the cost of steel these days. There was SO much that would be PERFECT...IIIIIFFFFFF I had a way to cut the stuff. Steve has offered up his plasma cutter, but that is good up to 3/8" and with the number of cuts I'd have to do, it would take forever. The guys said he JUST emptied his small scrap bins. In a couple of weeks, the bins ought to be full. I'm going back in 2-3 weeks to have a look at what he has. I might end up grabbing a bunch of small (5 x 5 and 10 x 10 pieces) and either stacking them, or if I can bribe Steve to bring his welder, spot weld pieces together to make bricks.

[Mike Cruz]

Someone asked how much heavier steel is than concrete. Well, I found this chart. Apparently, steel weighs 490 lbs per cubic foot and concrete weights 150 lbs per cubic foot. So, steel weighs about 3 times as much...



http://www.reade.com/Particle_Briefings/spec_gra2.html

I tried to cut and paste the chart, but for some reason, it shortens it...to only about 15 items...don't know why.:confused:

[Warren Johnson]

Warren, do you mean Riliable Recycling Centers?

Yes, they were on East St at 5th. Now on Reich's Ford Road. Take South Street exti of RT 70 and turn left at the light at bottom of ramp. Go out about 1/2 mile, on right. As far as I know, the phone number is the same.

[Mike Cruz]

Not sure if they changed their policy or what, but I called them and they don't sell any metal...

[Warren Johnson]

Oh well, it was a thought.

[Mike Cruz]

And a good one at that! I really do appreciate the referral. Just didn't work out is all. Thanks for trying, Warren.

[Don McManus]

I noticed your density chart contains a lot of battery chemicals, which inspired me to look up battery weight and volumes (http://www.allaboutbatteries.com/Energy-tables.html). After some units conversion, it appears that batteries are denser than steel, but I'm not sure how tight you can pack the cells into your space. There will always be some dead space between cells. If my scratchpad calc is right, 100lbs of D batteries edge to edge will fit in a 2ft square about 2 inches tall. Stack 6 of these, and you have 8 cubic foot and 600lbs. You could get more dense packing by staggering, but my brain isn't up for that math tonight.

Safety and leakage are obvious concerns, but the price of dead batteries is pretty low.;)

As for suppliers, it seems like dead batteries should be every where. If not, get the kids one of those Nintendo DS thingy's for xmas.

If no kids and no dead batteries are around, buy some fresh ones, then you can have a cordless lathe:p .

my scratchpad is below..

.216372

[Mike Cruz]

Don, first of all, that was pretty funny...a cordless lathe... :D Second, not sure I really follow the battery thing since steel weighs about 500 lbs per cubic foot, so 8 cubic feet of steel would be 4000 lbs vs the 600 lbs of batteries. Third, I only have about 3 cubic feet of space to fill, that is why concrete alone wouldn't really do the job because it would only be about 400 lbs filled completely. I think I'm going to get some scrap steel and mix it into concrete bricks, and stack them wherever I can. Interesting idea, though...thanks for the attempt.

[Van Huskey]

Cut a hole in the floor, build a form and pour concrete flat with the wood floor then bolt the lathe to it. 2,000 plus punds easy. This is in jest since it would be a lot of work and poses all sorts of issues. My real suggestion is tungsten... I hear it is really dense and CHEAP... :p

[Mike Cruz]

You know, Van, if I KNEW for certain that the lathe would stay in that spot indefinately, I might consider the concrete idea...

[Dan Hintz]

Cut a hole in the floor, build a form and pour concrete flat with the wood floor then bolt the lathe to it. 2,000 plus punds easy.
If he bolts it to the floor, how is his wife supposed to lift the ends so she can sweep up the chips?

[Jerome Hanby]

If he bolts it to the floor, how is his wife supposed to lift the ends so she can sweep up the chips?

I think you should ask my wife a question like that. But give me a little warning, I want to have the camera ready >g>

[curtis rosche]

go to the local military base or nuke plant and get some depleted uranium, its that supposed to be one of the densest out there?

[Don McManus]

... not sure I really follow the battery thing since steel weighs about 500 lbs per cubic foot, so 8 cubic feet of steel would be 4000 lbs vs the 600 lbs of batteries....

This is why I shouldn't design after midnight...got excited when I saw the both nickel and cadmium and manganese were all as dense or denser than steel. Apparently the batteries themselves end up less dense after then get cased up.

On a funnier note, some one mentioned tungsten. We used to get this at work for making seismic sensing masses. It came in less than an inch in diameter, rough cast in 6 or 8" long bars. I can remember standing with one of the shipping guys staring at the wooden crate. It looked funny because the crate came in on its own pallet, and the crate itself was about the size of a 6 pack of cans. It was stoutly built with double layers of solid wood crating, with every surface was covered in warning labels "Heavy" "Lift from bottom", "weighs over 100lbs". We both thought, it can't be THAT heavy. And both of us tried lifting it, and realized why there was so many labels. It just couldn't ever look as heavy as it really was.

Unfortunately it cost about $10 a pound, and a little impractical. Then again, you could always start saving light bulb filaments:p

[Mike Cruz]

Don, I don't really follow the light bulb filaments thing since... :D :D

[Don McManus]

Incandescent are made of tungsten wire, because it melts at a stupid high temperature(3300 deg C IIRC)