Moulding plane recommendations?

[Mike Allen1010]

I work almost exclusively with hand tools and am interested in acquiring some quality molding planes to take the place of router bits for profiling edges, but I'm not really sure what types I need or where to look.

The primary uses I'm thinking about are molding the interior edge of rails/styles in frame and panel doors, profiling smaller moldings for trimming around the base molding/trim and tops of/casework. I would also like to profile the edges/lips of overlapping drawer fronts. I don't think I'm ready to tackle the larger, more complex moldings I see used in some types of classic antique furniture styles.

I'm willing to pay for first-rate planes and also willing/able to rehab quality vintage planes that are fundamentally sound. I would appreciate any advice or recommendations about specific plane types/profiles I should be looking for the applications I mentioned and others that fellow Neanderthals find themselves using on a regular basis.

I would also welcome any advice/recommendations about any current manufacturers or dealers of quality vintage tools I should look at. So far been looking at the mega auction site and it seems really difficult to tell what shape the planes are in and exactly what their profiles look like.

Thanks, Mike

[Zach Dillinger]

For vintage molding planes, you can't beat Lee Richmond at The Best Things. Great planes, good prices, extremely honest and incredibly knowledgeable about molding planes.

For new, you have a few options, Matt Bickford makes nice planes, I've been told. Old Street rocks. I've used their molding planes once or twice and was blown away.

Stay away, far far away, from the mega auction site until you have some experience with molding planes. You're much better off buying from a reputable dealer or maker, instead of getting a bunch of junk while hunting for quality.

[Trevor Walsh]

I can attest to Matt Bickford, I've met him at shows and used his moulders. They are awesome, his blog (and forthcoming book) are a wealth of info. I'd check it out if you haven't already.

It sounds like you might be interested in dedicated moulders for the F&P work, and hollows and rounds would give you a ton of flexibility in the casework moulding department. Unless you are married to one or two larger profiles and do a lot on a particular moulding stlye.

[Jim Belair]

Mike, here's a link to Matt's website. Check out the numerous posts from earlier this year where he shows how to make an amazing variety of moldings with just the hollows and rounds.

http://musingsfrombigpink.blogspot.com/2011_01_01_archive.html

Jim B

[David Weaver]

I'm going to make a suggestion.... as someone who decided to give up on buying planes and just make them. I recognize that you probably don't want to do that, BUT...

..the best thing you can do to learn about what makes a good plane is to buy the Larry Williams DVD. He discusses construction in it, and the difference between earlier planes and later ones where corners are cut.

It's not a cheap DVD, but I think it's 3 hours long or so, and when you're done with it, you won't be out more than $15 of price difference if you sell... and you'll know exactly what to look for in a plane.

I probably have 30 mismatched H&R planes that I got for < $10 each. I have only used three of them - It takes me about 6 hours to make a pair, and it takes me an hour or two at least to refurbish a pair of not-so great planes and get them going. It's not a hard decision for me, but even if I wasn't making my own, I would certainly appreciate knowing what I know from that DVD. I sure would've spent a few extra bucks, had more patience, and bought better planes.

[Russell Sansom]

I second the Larry Williams DVD. Takes a dedicated morning to watch but put a log on the fire and brew up a nice pot of tea. It's well done.

I also whole-heartedly concur with Zach's advice about steering clear of H&R's at auction. They are seldom documented well enough to know their actual condition.

[Trevor Walsh]

I'll Third that now that they mention it.

[Zach Dillinger]

Mike,

I missed part of your original post. You also requested advice as to what profiles to buy. A few pairs (like sizes 4, 6, 10 and 12) of hollows and rounds would be helpful; a whole set or half-set isn't really necessary most of the time. Thrown in a small ogee, small ovolo and a 1/8, 3/16 and 1/4 side bead plane, and you'll be able to do just about anything you want.

[Mike Allen1010]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Zach, your recomendations for the starter set of profiles is just what I am looking for!

Seems like for my needs (strictly users not collecting) the best thing would be to buy new from Matt or Old Street tools - more than I would like to pay, but at least I would be assured of getting quality usable tools. When it comes to wooden planes, I always feel like it risky to buy long distance.

[Jack Curtis]

Larry's dvd is great, no question, and he teaches how to make great planes, very high quality, professional; but Todd Herrli's is also very good. The main difference is that Herrli teaches a Krenov type method of building, which in the case of narrow molding planes is much easier. Not better, mind you, but good enough to use, even if not still useable by your grandchildren.

Jack

[Ron Brese]

Matt makes planes that Larry and Don approve of so that says a lot and he provides the educational material to assist in being successful with the tools. It's a good combination.

Ron

[David Keller NC]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Zach, your recomendations for the starter set of profiles is just what I am looking for!

Seems like for my needs (strictly users not collecting) the best thing would be to buy new from Matt or Old Street tools - more than I would like to pay, but at least I would be assured of getting quality usable tools. When it comes to wooden planes, I always feel like it risky to buy long distance.

Mike - One thing about purchasing some planes from Matt Bickford, Old Street (hadn't seen these mentioned) D.L. Barrett & Sons or Philly Planes is that they will hold their value. There's a lot of labor that goes into these, and the waiting list is usually substantial (at one time, Old Street had a 3 year backlog for H&Rs). That means that the supply is definitely restricted, and the demand is only growing as folks discover that they can get rid of the noise, dust and danger of power tools.

So you can likely sell a set of H&Rs from any of these makers for what you paid for them, perhaps a little more because you'd be offering the buyer instant gratification.

That said, if you contact Lee Richmond (you should; he often has considerably more on hand than what is listed and pictured on his site) and are a little patient, you can pick up a complete half-set of H&Rs all by the same maker and owner in high-grade condition for about 1/4th to 1/3rd of the cost of a new set. I have two 1/2 sets of H&Rs from Lee, both were nearly new despite being over 100 years old, and the Varvill and Sons 1/2 set had the original factory grind on the irons. It's possible you might have to correct a bit of ham-handed sharpening, but that's about it. And because 1/2 sets all by the same maker and owner are collectible, they will hold their value.

Finally, if you simply want to see what you can do with a couple of sets of H&Rs to decide if you want to spend the $700-$1000 for an antique set or $3k for a new set, you might consider the Asian-made planes that Lee Valley sells. The design of these means they will be more limiting than the traditional British design, but they will work nevertheless, and are a considerably smaller investment:

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=64009&cat=1,41182

[Jason Coen]

That said, if you contact Lee Richmond (you should; he often has considerably more on hand than what is listed and pictured on his site) and are a little patient, you can pick up a complete half-set of H&Rs all by the same maker and owner in high-grade condition for about 1/4th to 1/3rd of the cost of a new set. I have two 1/2 sets of H&Rs from Lee, both were nearly new despite being over 100 years old, and the Varvill and Sons 1/2 set had the original factory grind on the irons. It's possible you might have to correct a bit of ham-handed sharpening, but that's about it. And because 1/2 sets all by the same maker and owner are collectible, they will hold their value.

It's worth giving Ed Lebetkin at St. Roy's place a call as well. Last I time I was in there he had a harlequin set (matched between the pairs but not through the set) of skewed H&R's as well as a same maker half-set. He also had several complete side bead sets that were by the same maker with identical owner stamps on each.

[David Keller NC]

It's worth giving Ed Lebetkin at St. Roy's place a call as well. Last I time I was in there he had a harlequin set (matched between the pairs but not through the set) of skewed H&R's as well as a same maker half-set. He also had several complete side bead sets that were by the same maker with identical owner stamps on each.
Hmmm - good point, but I think that might be a bit of a drive for Mike (his location info says "California"). Does Ed ship tools?

[Jason Coen]

Hmmm - good point, but I think that might be a bit of a drive for Mike (his location info says "California"). Does Ed ship tools?

He does. The last time I was in he was helping a guy put together a set of chisels via email and had several saws boxed up for USPS.

[Andrae Covington]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Zach, your recomendations for the starter set of profiles is just what I am looking for!

Seems like for my needs (strictly users not collecting) the best thing would be to buy new from Matt or Old Street tools - more than I would like to pay, but at least I would be assured of getting quality usable tools. When it comes to wooden planes, I always feel like it risky to buy long distance.

I recommend Don McConnell's two DVD's about using molding planes. I only have the first one, but I think it might help you decide what molding planes you would need, and how to use them. There is also another Larry Williams DVD on how to sharpen profiled irons.

I have both the Williams and Herrli videos on making hollows and rounds. I found them fascinating, even though I haven't actually tried to make any planes (yet). But if your goal is buying and using, rather than making your own, I think you would get more benefit from McConnell's Traditional Molding Techniques DVD, as well as Matt Bickford's blog (and as mentioned above, an upcoming book via Lost Art Press).

[Joshua Clark]

I'll fourth or fifth the recommendation to buy Larry and Don's DVDs from Lie-Nielsen. Larry's DVD on sharpening profiled edge tools is the best reference on sharpening molding planes, gouges, bench planes, and other tools. His process is simple and easy and effective.

If you want to buy molding planes you will not go wrong ordering from Old Street or Matt. The Old Street planes are simply the best wooden planes ever made. Matt's molding planes are a very close second. Either will be fantastic to use. The downside in buying new is or course the cost, and the wait. I think both makers have wait times of over a year at this point. If you think you might be interested, get on their waiting list now!

The types of molding profiles you are interested in- drawer fronts, rails/styles, base trimming and case work is fairly straight-forward work. You might be better off looking for a couple of general-purpose molding planes that cut useful profiles- two or three beads, an ovolo or two, an ogee and maybe a thumbnail/casing plane. These are all very common profiles, readily available and inexpensive. Using a dedicated molder is a lot easier than making these simple profiles with hollows and rounds. It's also a lot quicker.

When looking for vintage planes to put to use make sure you ask a lot of questions. You're looking for a user plane, not something to put on a shelf. Maker's names don't matter much. I'd recommend British planes as these are usually configured better for hardwood (higher pitch blades) than their American analogs and they are often found in much better condition today. Look for planes with blades that are in good condition with no pitting. Any boxing should be complete and in-line, and the mouth should be as tight as possible. Ideally the blade should be match the sole profile as close as possible to reduced the amount of time it will take to get it up and running.

Hope this helps,

Josh