Byrd Shelix spiral planer head and getting a few lengthwise stripes in the work piece

[Nick Sorenson]

I'm noticing that with my new Byrd head I'm getting lengthwise (with the grain and perpendicular to the usual cutter ridges) stripes in the workpiece. These are again with the length of the board going through. They're a raised stripe of wood maybe .020" wide and .010" tall like a tiny bit isn't quite getting cut and all the way through the cut. I am getting around 8 of these if I pass a 14" wide board through the cut. They're a breeze to knock down with a sander or scraper. But I'd like to figure out what they are and eliminate them. I have to say, the Byrd was well worth the price. I had a Grizzly Dispozablade so I never honed but so far I like the Byrd. Very easy to sand or scrape out.

[Lucas G Hager]

A few of your carbide cutters might be raised slightly by a piece of dirt being underneath them. I have heard many complaints about folks with shelix heads playing with the inserts, and when they tighten every thing back down they get stripes. Then, they have to loosed everything up and blow it out very well and retorque it down. Generally solves the problem. You might want to try that.

[Myk Rian]

As Lucas said, make sure the pads are clean. If not, you could start breaking cutters.

[Mike Goetzke]

I had the same problem. I removed all of the inserts cleaned them and the platforms on the head and re-torqued. When you re-torque them the tendency would be to hold them against the stop ledge but the instructions suggest the opposite - hold them away from the shoulder and let the tapered seat fastener pull it into place. I think it was an odd occurrance (and Byrd took care of me) but I had a couple of holes that were not taped deep enough and prevented the insert from fully seating causing marks(just make sure the inserts are down flat and tight).


Mike

[Cary Falk]

I have a Byrd in my Jointer and had to remove all of the cutters, clean and reinstall to get a good finish.

[glenn bradley]

As Cary states, Byrd had an issue at some point but I believe it was resolved. A number of heads arrived with debris under the inserts. IIRC, going through the proper seating process solved the issue. I just recently rotated the inserts ion my jointer and followed these steps:

Unplug jointer
Remove guard
Use wedge and a light tap from the hammer to lock the head in position
Loosen screw with small torx #20 and handle
Back out screw with magnetic tip so as not to become unhappy
Remove insert and wipe the bulk of the crud off of it
Drop insert into cleaner
Use nylon brush to scrub seat area on the head with cleaner
Blow seat area clean with compressed air
Scrub insert clean and then dry with paper towel
Inspect insert to assure no foreign matter is anywhere (X-Acto knife helps if you find anything stubborn)
Seat insert
Apply small drop of 3-in-1 to threads of screw
Insert screw with magnetic tip and finger tighten
Apply 50 - 55 inch pounds with torque wrench
Repeat (more or less)
No issues and a nice clean cut folliowing the effort.

[Nick Sorenson]

Thanks everyone interesting to hear. If I had known this I may have done it outside the planer before installation. Kind of annoying after paying decent money for this head but that's understandable. Things can go wrong in MFG. No one's immune to problems in production. In my opinion this should have been a recall on stock for rework instead of having the end user have to experience it. This one is from Grizzly and was on sale for Christmas.

[Gary Pennington]

This one is from Grizzly and was on sale for Christmas.

Nick,
Sorry to hear of your troubles. UPS just delivered my Bryd head from Grizzly this afternoon, a generic 15"--wondering if I should remove & reseat all the inserts before installation?

Thanks, Gary

[Nick Sorenson]

Nick, Sorry to hear of your troubles. UPS just delivered my Bryd head from Grizzly this afternoon, a generic 15"--wondering if I should remove & reseat all the inserts before installation? Thanks, Gary If I were in your shoes I would. But who knows, this could have been a fluke on my planer head. Probably only take an hour to do all 60 I'd guess.

[Robert Chapman]

A very slight scalloping pattern is normal for Byrd Shelix heads. In my experience these marks sand out very easily in hardwoods with a single pass of 220 grit in the ROS.

[glenn bradley]

This one is from Grizzly and was on sale for Christmas.

Ouch. I thought this was old news and had been cleared up awhile back. Maybe a unit that didn't get rotated when new stock came in? Not sure about your planer but my head is very easy to access with the top cover removed. It would still feel like I was a practicing contortionist before I got through all the inserts but, I imagine it is easier than swapping out the head for a replacement. If the marks are definite enough you can try the inserts in that area first(?).

[Alan Schaffter]

A big caution, when reseating the cutters:

Apply 50 - 55 inch pounds with torque wrench


Note the torque is in Inch-Pounds, NOT Foot-Pounds- so DON'T use a typical automotive torque wrench or you will crack the carbide inserts! HF carries an inexpensive Inch-Pound torque wrench.

[Nick Sorenson]

A big caution, when reseating the cutters:
Apply 50 - 55 inch pounds with torque wrench

Note the torque is in Inch-Pounds, NOT Foot-Pounds- so DON'T use a typical automotive torque wrench or you will crack the carbide inserts! HF carries an inexpensive Inch-Pound torque wrench. The instructions from Byrd say tight hand tight is around 45in-lbs. I'm planning use their included screwdriver and bit that came with the kit. It says in the instructions the newer heads have T25 torx plus and the older ones have T20.

[Nick Sorenson]

There were more cutters than I realized. I thought there were 4 rows, I believe there are 5 rows of 15. We went through and lacquer thinner cleaned all the seats. It took around 3 hours of my help's time. Hopefully it works! We'll see if it payed off in a few minutes.

[Myk Rian]

The instructions from Byrd say tight hand tight is around 45in-lbs. I'm planning use their included screwdriver and bit that came with the kit. It says in the instructions the newer heads have T25 torx plus and the older ones have T20.
I think a 1/4" ratchet wrench would give you a more positive feel. You would have to put a lot of twist on the included handle to get that torque.

[Nick Sorenson]

214949
There were more cutters than I realized. I thought there were 4 rows, I believe there are 5 rows of 15. We went through and lacquer thinner cleaned all the seats. It took around 3 hours of my help's time. Hopefully it works! We'll see if it payed off in a few minutes. Well no luck unfortunately. It's at least as bad as it was before. I compared the before and after boards and they look very similar. I had similar stripes before I changed the cutterhead (with the stock grizzly head) but I figured maybe a blade had a nick or two in it. I ran a clean sanded board through without touching the cutter and it didn't have the strips when it exited so I have to think the cutterhead is causing these stripes. I'll have to call Byrd and see if they have any suggestions.

EDIT: Talked to Byrd a bit ago and discussed the issue. They've been helpful. Hopefully we'll get it narrowed down.

[Phil Maddox]

Nick - keep us posted, I am about to pull the trigger on a 20" for my PM 209. Don't want to be unhappy after plunking down $835. Can you show a close up of what you are experiencing?

Good luck.

[Nick Sorenson]

Ok, Byrd sent me a new set of replacement cutters (the ones I had from the Grizzly purchased Byrd head came new with the four edges numbered 1,2,3,4) The new cutters just have a B and the polish is a lot better on the cutting edges.

I installed all 75 new cutters and works perfectly!

I was pretty disappointed after spending probably 6-8 hours changing the head, setting up the planer etc to find these stripes on every cut I ran through it no matter what I did. I didn't know what the problem was. Installed the new cutters and it's perfect.

Great for Byrd to stand behind it. I'll be sending the old cutters back today.

This probably cost me around 6+ hours between trouble shooting, inspecting my infeed and outfeed rollers just to make sure it wasn't debris on them leaving the marks, talking to tech support at Grizzly and Byrd and then actually changing the parts.

Kind of a bummer that something like this would ship. Not that loosing 6 hours is the end of the world, but when every minute counts in a time pressed small business, it is definitely a little bit of a pain to loose time. I wish they would have made sure the problem was caught before it reached me the end user or recalled the head. But things happen and I guess alls well that ends well.

But in the end, the product is GREAT. It'll save me hundreds of hours of sanding in the long run. And in my opinion, that's the best work area to save hundreds of hours in.

AND, dust collection works now! Another Byrd plus. No tearout and great easy to sand planing. I love it!

[glenn bradley]

Thanks for following up Nick. Sounds like anyone ordering needs to clarify that they are getting the corrected inserts and not old stock. It can take some of the sting out of your time and effort knowing that by sharing here you have helped others with the information so that they need not go down the same road. Kudos to you and thanks for your efforts.

[David Kumm]

Did Byrd tell you whether the old cutters were their old standard ones or had Grizzly specd something different, or just a bad batch. Would be interesting to know if all Byrd heads of a certain vintage had the problem or just Grizzly sold heads. Did you actually use a torque wrench to tighten them to specs or estimate? Dave

[Nick Sorenson]

Did Byrd tell you whether the old cutters were their old standard ones or had Grizzly specd something different, or just a bad batch. Would be interesting to know if all Byrd heads of a certain vintage had the problem or just Grizzly sold heads. Did you actually use a torque wrench to tighten them to specs or estimate? Dave

Don't know for sure but I did ask Byrd before ordering from Grizzly and they said it was exactly the same head. I'm guessing they had a different manufacturer for the newer replacement cutters they sent me. BUT... it seems like this must have been something they caught in time at least for some of the heads shipped or we'd hear more about it... you'd think. The new cutter inserts measured maybe a few thousandths different it seemed like. It was hard to measure from the screw hole to the edge because of the countersink that the mounting screw goes into.

The old cutters (the ones that shipped with the head) had a countersink that looked a little bit offset or tipped in reference to the screw head. They were consistently offset and the new ones looked to be pretty close to centered. Maybe this was the issue. It'd definitely be my guess that the offset was the problem. Not sure if the guess is correct but that's what it looked like. The outside of the old and the new replacements seemed to be the same measurements (again hard to measure since it's a rounded shape and beveled to boot. But I'm pretty sure I got accurate measurements). Seems like the offset countersink in relation to the mounting screw was the issue there. At least my guess for whatever it's worth.

[Gary Pennington]

I have the same head and inserts as Nick which I bought from Grizzly during the Christmas sale. Just got the planer up an running and it too leaves stripes on the boards. Guess I'll be giving Byrd a call tomorrow, I'm not really looking forward to changing out all those inserts.

[Nick Sorenson]

I have the same head and inserts as Nick which I bought from Grizzly during the Christmas sale. Just got the planer up an running and it too leaves stripes on the boards. Guess I'll be giving Byrd a call tomorrow, I'm not really looking forward to changing out all those inserts.

Bummer. Well let us know how it goes; it'll take some time. I spoke with Grizzly's tech too along side Byrd. I wonder if this is the reason why they were on sale... Not good if so. Bummer that these made it out of Grizzly's warehouse.

At least you know what the problem is, that will save you the time of troubleshooting (I spent about 4 hours or so cleaning every spec off my outfeed roller, talking to tech at both companies, speculating, cleaning the seats of EVERY cutter per Byrd's direction, which meant removing them and took longer than replacing them). Expect around 2 hours or so of changing the 75 inserts (assuming a 15" planer).

It's really a bit upsetting. I even paid an employee for a few hours to do the cleaning under each cutter. Not much I can do about all of that but it is a bit frustrating to say the least. Again in the end, the planer does what it was supposed to do but it cost me lots of time and a few hours of paid labor. If I would have known that there was a problem with the inserts in the first place I would have been much happier than I am about the ordeal. This is Byrd's problem and I'm glad they did replace the cutters, but these heads should not have been sold. Hopefully they'll do the right thing and make sure no more go out like this.

They do seem like good people in speaking with them over the phone.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have a Byrd head in a Powermatic Jointer and it convinced me that my next jointer will have a Tersa head as it is doing as you discribe. It is on site, so tomorrow I will pull a cutter and see if it has numbers.

Thanks for the detailed post and followup.

Larry

[Todd Burch]

...I wonder if this is the reason why they were on sale... Not good if so. ...

I'm seeing more of this the longer I live. Used to be, vendors would have sales to increase business. Now, it seems more and more it's to move defective product out the door faster.

Todd

[Gary Pennington]

I emailed Byrd this afternoon and got this prompt response:

Gary,
Can you email me a picture of the head and also of the cut so I can determine if
its the tips or head issue.
My apologizes for the problem you've
experienced.
thanks
Garry

I emailed the pics late this afternoon after they had closed for the day. I'll let you know what I hear back.

Gary

[Nick Sorenson]

I have a Byrd head in a Powermatic Jointer and it convinced me that my next jointer will have a Tersa head as it is doing as you discribe. It is on site, so tomorrow I will pull a cutter and see if it has numbers.

Thanks for the detailed post and followup.

Larry

The new cutting inserts fixed the problem for my head. So I wouldn't jump off the Byrd bandwagon yet. But this is definitely disappointing and isn't good for either Byrd or Grizzly.

Not that any of us have never shipped anything that wasn't perfect in some way we thought only we would notice and hoped the customer didn't. No one's work is perfect and in order to get anything done we have to live with some flaws... but I think it's is little different when the customer has to spend their own time and money to fix an issue like this. This isn't something you can just easily ship back and get a different one like you could do with a toaster for instance.

[Brian Weick]

No thanks on the helical head...


Your chasing a problem constantly, to many things to go wrong, ie, the individual bits.
I think that head is cool in it's design, but for practical continuos use I do not care for it. 3 or 4 straight blade gibed cutter head is IMO the Best head ever invented. Clean cuts,easy to replace the blades, easy to sharpen, lest costly, less down time....


Yes I am biased but only from experience, I've been where you are..... They are way overrated IMO , and not worth the money, or the aggravation....


I do hope you correct your problem....I know the feeling,,,, or used to ....LOL



Good luck :)


B,

[Larry Edgerton]

Nick

I have a Tersa head in my planer, and the cut is better, and changes are fast. Cost is higher, and that is what I was looking at with the Byrd, lower running costs.

I will play with the Byrd when I get a minute, but if I can not improve the cut a bit I will go with a Tersa again. I do want a heavy planer with a byrd for rough stock, and keep the SCM for finish planing. That would cut my my cost on Tersa knives.

Larry

[Gary Pennington]

From Byrd:
Gary,
I'm going to send you a set of tips and a torque ratchet, you can try a
small section of the head first to see if they
fix the problem, if so, replace them all. There will be a return label
in the box for the tips that were in the head.
If it doesn't help, we'll need to replace the head.
At the present we awaiting a shipment of tips, hopefully they will be
here this week. Sorry for the problem and
thanks for your patience.
Garry