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John Coloccia
12-01-2011, 1:45 AM
Situation:

Someone comes up to you and says:



I tried to change a headlight in my car. I had trouble getting to it and accidentally broke the retainer clip. They're made so cheap these days! To get to the clip, I had to remove the radiator hose, but my screwdriver slipped and accidentally punctured the hose. To get to the other end of the hose, I had to remove the skid plate and then loosen the condenser, but I accidentally bent some tubing. No big deal. I can just replace that, but when I went to remove the water pump (it was in the way), it slipped and I accidentally bent one of the fan blades. WELL, getting that fan out was no walk in the park and anyhow, to make a long story short, it turns out that the quickest way to fix all of this forces me to lap my valves. Do you think I could just lap them on my kitchen counter? It looks pretty flat.


And you say:

"Uh, if you can't replace a headlight, I don't think you want to be lapping valves. Take it to a mechanic."

But when someone comes up and says



I was rubbing out a finish on some new kitchen cabinets and I guess I hit a soft spot because I accidentally sanded through the first layer of plywood in a few spots. How do I fix this???


we're all (including me) so quick to respond with



WELL, the first thing you want to do is carefully cut around the problem areas. You want to be sure you go deep enough to fully remove the blemish, but not so deep that you weaken the structure. Then you want to come in with a SHARP chisel and carefully remove the blemish, taking away as little wood as possible. The goal is to make a cavity that you will inlay a patch into. Be super careful to keep your edges perfectly straight!

Now go to the bandsaw with a piece of matching plywood (preferably from the same sheet) and carefully resaw a piece just a whisper thicker than the cavity you made. If this is too think, you'll sand through it when trying to feather the edges.

Okay, so now fit the patch to the problem area. Take your time......


etc etc etc......

:rolleyes:

Larry Edgerton
12-01-2011, 5:42 AM
Good point......

For a long time when I went into business I would be frusterated by employees when I explained to them how to do something that seemed so simple to me, and yet they just didn't get it. I thought they were just not paying attention and it drove me nuts that they could not do as I asked.

Eventually I learned that I am fortunate, that the ability to look at a problem and find a solution is a gift, and that I should not expect the same out of other people that I demand from myself. Tasks that seem so simple to me are hard to others, but conversely, they have talents that I do not in other areas. Life has been simpler since I came to this conclusion. All people are not capable of the same things, each of us has our strong points and weak points, and we all have to work around the gifts that we are given.

My weakness is anything to do with paperwork, and for example I could never be a CNC operator/programer as I lose concentration/interest on that sort of thing. A CNC would fit into my business, but I know my limitations and farm that out to others. I can screw with wood for hours making a part, but I do not have the patience to work on my own car.

When you see that glazed look in their eyes, you know you have lost them.....

Larry

Bruce Page
12-01-2011, 1:54 PM
I served a stint as a 1st year machine shop apprentice instructor. It never took long to discover who was cut out to be a machinist and who wasn’t. There were rare surprises where the struggling apprentice would suddenly click and get it, but they were the exception. As Larry points out, not all people are capable of the same things.

Personally, if it interests me, I can learn it. If it doesn’t, I struggle.

Mike Cruz
12-01-2011, 2:25 PM
I know all there is to know about everything...except the things I don't know about, of course...

John, the headlight scenario is PRECISELY why there are things I do myself, and things that I hire others to do. Could I have done the plumbing in the laundry room renovation we just did? Sure! But that would have lead to something else that would have lead to something else, and so one, and so on. It would have taken me longer to do the sink than it took the plumbers to do the whole job.

Some things are better left for those who know what they are doing. And knowing those limits (my limits) is what keeps me sane. If I didn't I'd be frustrated ALL the time...

John Coloccia
12-01-2011, 7:12 PM
I just think it's funny that with other things, when we start messing up even simple tasks we tend to back off and defer to pros. With woodworking, when we mess up simple tasks we're tempted and encouraged to take on FAR more difficult and error prone tasks to recover. I'm a victim of the disease too.

Jason Roehl
12-01-2011, 7:17 PM
Personally, if it interests me, I can learn it. If it doesn’t, I struggle.

Story of my life. Unfortunately (as some would see it) for me that's why I don't have a college degree--too much stuff that didn't interest me required for the degree in what did.

John--is the countertop laminate, solid-surface (i.e. Corian) or granite? ;)

Jeff Nicol
12-01-2011, 8:50 PM
My problem is that I know too much about to many things and I end up being the consultant on many projects for friends and family. I definitely understand about trying to explain things to others and having them say "I don't get it" then I draw sketches, and try to explain it a different way and finally I, well............I just do it myself and have the others clean up after me or go for donuts, coffee or something! I have 2 of my best friends who are engineers, one is an electronics engineer and the other is a mechanical engineer, they are really great and formulas, figures, and using big words, but when it comes to building what they put on paper or should I say a computer screen, lets just say the amount of overthinking and re-thinking and micro planning that goes on is something to behold! I have to walk away or I will laugh so hard I might pass out! So I think by me having not gone to college, but through an apprenticeship and the on the job training, I retained and learned what was needed to get the job done and not all the big words and useless classes that are part of a university education. I lived with 7 of my buddies before I went to basic training and they were all in college, the thing I would have done was drink a lot of beer and chase girls, and spend a lot of money on tuition. So I guess I made the right choice at the time, and I am glad that so many others went on to higher education and have created all the great and wonderful inventions and devices that make our lives full and easier.


There has to be goofy folks to make the rest of us look good!

Jeff

Eric DeSilva
12-02-2011, 12:03 AM
Hmm. Are you all really playing that far inside your safe zones?

My view of the hypothetical is... by the time I get done lapping my valves for the first time, I'm going to know a whole bunch of things I hadn't before I started changing my headlights.

Mike Cruz
12-02-2011, 12:54 AM
John, one of my headlights went out on my today...I actually laughed out loud...thinking of your post as I was trying to remember if I already had a spare since the last time I changed one of the bulbs. Oh, I hope I don't end up lapping joints, or valves, or whatever...

Andrew Pitonyak
12-02-2011, 11:01 AM
I once spent about 10 hours changing a fog-lamp assembly on the front of a car. It would have been easier if I had a lift. All the connections were out of view and in awkward positions. Ironically, it was my service adviser who recommended I do it myself because the dealer charged a really large amount in labor to do it.

Steven Green
12-02-2011, 1:20 PM
I found out a long time ago that if it's something that takes using your hands I can generally do it without much fuss. I also found out a long time ago that not all people have this in their genes. The trick that I found is when it's time to stop just stop. Don't complicate it just do what needs to be done and walk away with your hands in your pockets.

Dave Anderson NH
12-02-2011, 3:50 PM
I classify jobs into 4 major categories:

1) Definitely do myself because it's cheaper and I know how. Side benefit of often getting a better job done.

2) I don't have the skill or the appropriate tools. Farm it out.

3) Never done before but it looks like its something I can do. DIY

4) I can do it, but slowly, grudgingly, and with great pain and aggravation. Farm it out

Mike Cruz
12-02-2011, 4:51 PM
Dave, I relaly like your catagories. But you have to add: That looks like a PITA. Farm it out. And: There's no way I can do that, but it looks like fun! DYI

Jim Matthews
12-02-2011, 5:11 PM
5) Anything that involves a rake or shovel; Farmer it out.

6) Anything a talking monkey could build; Framer it out.

Ryan Mooney
12-02-2011, 11:22 PM
I often take on projects that I know are way over my head for a couple of reasons:

No pain no gain. You have to risk failure to succeed. More hackneyed phrases inserted here. But seriously without trying I don't know if I can't and I won't ever actually learn. Many things that seem "impossible" to most people just require a sufficient amount of stubbornness to get through. Next time you'll be smarter about removing that radiator hose and maybe use the correct sized screwdriver, next time maybe you won't sand it out so far, next time... well, at least you'll do it wrong differently.
I've had mixed luck farming a lot of things out and have developed a rather deep distrust of many "professionals" until I get a good look at their work (please don't take this wrong, there are many fantastic folks I would trust to do many things, but finding them... locally... :confused:). When I do find someone who's good and reliable, well thats one of those precious things you hang onto. If nothing else I like to research whatever I'm trying to get done enough so that I know if its getting done at least somewhat correctly. A couple examples of "professionally" done things that irked me:

Umm, why is there plain old drywall behind the shower tile... rip/tear/replace.
"That'll be $300 for a power steering pump replacement" - umm let me think on that one... later I fix it myself by replacing the one rotten hose, for free (the piece was so short the guy at the autoparts store couldn't be bothered to ring it up).
You want how much for a bead frame made out of low density MDF!?!!? :eek: (ok thats more a comment on Ikea culture, but the idea sort of holds.. in my head anyway.. don't over think this one..)

So.. if nothing else I (and I'm sure many like me) certainly appreciate the time that those of you who DO know what you're doing take to help those of us who don't. We may screw things up beyond all repair, but in the end.. well at least some of us now know what went wrong last time :rolleyes:

On the flip side, you do have to know your limits, which kind of boils down to some limits on time, tooling and talent. My favorite story in this regard was a friend of mine took a TV in to get fixed, afterwards he asked the fellow how he had fixed it, the response was "parts, knowledge" (and don't touch the big condenser at the back cause it'll kill you).

John Coloccia
12-12-2011, 7:02 PM
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?177551-Is-there-any-fix-when-you-stupidly-sand-through-the-veneer-on-plywood

There you go :)

Rich Engelhardt
12-13-2011, 9:33 AM
7.) Farming it out.
A.) I have no desire to know how it's done, let alone do it. (roofing is a good example - the good Lord never intended anything as fat as I to be on a roof ;))
B.) Yes - you're hired to do the work, and yes - I understand that by my helping you out it will cost me double.... :D (I helped the tile guy lay the ceramic tile in the kitchen. I managed to turn the 900$ job into an 1800$ job & yes - the one crooked tile tha's higher on one side than the other is the one I put in ;).)
C.) My wife hires the contractor and tells them I have brain damage and live in a delusional world where I think I'm a handy man. It's safe to ignore me - however - if at any time they see me appraoch them with a power tool they should call FEMA...

Mike Cruz
12-13-2011, 9:43 AM
John, you get a double kudos... One for the link to EXACTLY what your thread was talking about, and two for the "There you go"... That was the most appropriate "there you go" I've ever heard...and 'round these parts, I here it alots. :)

Bob Rufener
12-13-2011, 12:59 PM
We have owned our 2005 Honda Accord for about 4 years. For some reason, I have burned out at least 4 headlights. The low beam headlight on the passenger's side has gone out 3 times for sure. The manual says you need to bend back the plastic fender liner to get at it. What a pain. I can manage to get my paws at the bulb from inside the engine compartment. I wound up replacing the bulb receptacle as well since it must have been shorting out. They give you about 4" of wire to deal with so it was another pain. I just recently replaced the driver's side low beam and it wasn't any easier. About one step better than removing the oil filter. They ought to make the engineer's who design these things replace some of the parts that need occasional replacing. I think they'd change the designs.

Van Huskey
12-16-2011, 7:57 PM
A favorite of mine is a job I know I have no business doing BUT I get to buy a lot of tools I don't have to do the job (and only that job) AND I get to {peretend) to learn a new skill that all "men" should know. The tools always cost me more than hiring it done and the main thing I learn is if it ever breaks again I am just hiring someone to do it, recouping the costs of the tools be darned.