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View Full Version : What are opinions on 2nd floor laundry versus basement?



Brian Elfert
11-30-2011, 12:00 PM
I have a second floor laundry room with a sink. It seemed like a great idea when the house was designed and built in 2001. I have a front loader washing machine. It vibrates the whole house in the spin cycle. I even replaced the washing machine with one that is supposed to vibrate less. The vibration caused the drain on the sink came loose when it was full of water and I had a mini flood downstairs, but no damage as I was home to vacuum up the water.

The 2nd floor laundry room is quite convenient, but I am worried about damage to the structure of the house from the vibration. I have a drywall crack in one spot on the first floor that keeps opening up after repair. I suspect the crack is caused by the vibration.

Do you guys think it would be worth the hassle, expense, and inconvenience of moving the laundry to the basement? If I placed the laundry next to the basement bathroom I might be able to share the vent for the bathroom sink. The floor drain would be the hardest thing to add. I'm single so I leave most of my clothes in the laundry room and never put them away. I would certainly need to put them away with a basement laundry which can be good and bad at the same time.

Carol Reed
11-30-2011, 12:11 PM
From a woman's POV and for the sake of resale down the road, I would find a solution to the vibration and fix that. Running down to the basement with arm loads of dirty clothes only to run back upstairs with clean clothes gets old real quick! And you may not always be single. FWIW. I'd rip up the floor and re-enforce the floor joists as a start - and install a dran pan.

Brian Elfert
11-30-2011, 12:42 PM
The only easy way to fix the vibration would be to go to a top load washing machine which I really don't want to do. Lots of advantages to a front loader. There is already a drain pan under the washing machine. I'm more concerned about the long term effects on the structure than water damage.

I did talk to the builder about the vibration after the sink issue a few years ago. He didn't think ripping open the ceiling and adding structure would help. I would probably need to bring in a structural engineer to determine if there is a viable fix and that could cost big bucks. The house was built with floor trusses for both the first and second floors to eliminate any load bearing walls or columns. Adding load bearing walls or columns would not be easy at this point as near as I can tell. I guess I should find out what a structural engineer would really cost.

I do watch Mike Holmes on the Holmes Inspection show every week and they move a lot of laundry rooms from the 1st or 2nd floor to the basement for reasons similar to why I am considering moving mine. Of course, a lot of those laundry rooms were remodels and not done properly, Mine was done properly as part of the original house build.

Joe Angrisani
11-30-2011, 12:47 PM
Does the washer sit on the floor? Or is it on some type of pad?

When I relocated the laundry upstairs I poured a shower-type concrete pad. About 2" of Quickrete over a 40mil membrane, but poured level. No slope as in a shower, but the walls are waterproof to about 8" and it's just an emergency drain if a hose pops. Then thinset and tile. The laundry was on hardwood on joists on the first floor before, and though it wasn't loud or annoying before, it is pretty darn quiet now unless a heavy/bulky load like a wet comforter is spinning off balance. Basic lower-end front loaders. No banging. No "walking" machines. I'm not sure if it was the slab that helped, but it's really the only thing that's changed.

Also: Did you properly level the machines' feet? I found that made a signficant difference at the old house.

Cyrus Brewster 7
11-30-2011, 1:04 PM
I would love to have to have the machines on the second floor... Or I should say that my wife would love it. Of the small portion of the laundry that I do, I find having the machines in the basement a pain.

Brian Elfert
11-30-2011, 1:55 PM
The washer sits directly on some sort of composite washing machine drain pan that is screwed to the floor. Yes, I leveled the machine as best I could.

A concrete floor is an interesting idea, but wouldn't the whole floor just vibrate and still shake the house? I'm not sure how the transition to a 2" floor would work. The guy who did the ceramic floor in my 2nd bathroom put in an inch thick concrete/mortar floor before tiling and that worked okay. I'm wondering if a thick rubber pad would help or if the machine would just walk all over?

Joe Angrisani
11-30-2011, 2:12 PM
Your problem may be the floor trusses and lack of walls below. The whole 2nd-floor floor might be acting like a drum. Is the laundry "near the center" of the second floor, or near an exterior wall and the ends of the trusses?

High density rubber pads might work. Check out this thread going on in Workshops:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?176632-Rubber-tile-shop-floor-installed-w-PICs

Carol Reed
11-30-2011, 2:14 PM
I would consider opening the floor and cross-bracing the dickens out of the floor joists where the machine sits. The concrete pan, as in the shower, and the rubber pad can't hurt either. FWIW, knees don't get any younger running up and down stairs. LOL!

Don Jarvie
11-30-2011, 2:47 PM
Home Depot sells rubber feet for the washer. The look like over sized hockey pucks but softer rubber. The will absorb the vibration better.

The previous owner of our house put the laundry room on the 3rd floor but didn't level the floor so it has a nice pitch. From all of the vibration the washer broke and I had to fix it. The rubber pads seem to help. Next washer is a top load.

Belinda Barfield
11-30-2011, 3:16 PM
For 40 bucks I'd give these a shot. http://www.vibrationsolution.com/thevibrationsolutionllc/silentfeet.htm

Currently not an issue for me, but I have lived with the laundry room on the ground floor and bedrooms on the second. I tend to leave things in the laundry room as well and no matter what I needed when I was upstairs, it was always downstairs. Hauling laundry and down stairs was a pain. My next house had a laundry shoot from the second floor that dumped directly into a basket in the laundry room. at least then I only had to deal with getting things back up stairs and put away.

Brian Elfert
11-30-2011, 3:16 PM
Your problem may be the floor trusses and lack of walls below. The whole 2nd-floor floor might be acting like a drum. Is the laundry "near the center" of the second floor, or near an exterior wall and the ends of the trusses?


The laundry room is in the corner of the 2nd floor so it has two exterior walls. It is over the kitchen that has no walls all the way through the dining area and living room to the front exterior wall. The issue isn't noise so much as the vibration. I can feel the vibration sitting in the living room when the spin cycle runs.

What I don't want to do is spend a bunch of money and find out the problem isn't any better after all the work is done. The type of rubber mat I am thinking of is the type they sell for horses at Tractor Supply. I'll have to check Home Depot too for those other pads.

Brian Elfert
11-30-2011, 3:23 PM
The Silent Feet solution likes the thing to start with. Certainly a lot cheaper than rebuilding the laundry room. I'll have to check Home Depot to see what they have. There is a local place that has the Silent Feet if Home depot doesn't work out.

Larry Edgerton
11-30-2011, 4:45 PM
My wife wants the laundry in the basement, and on this subject I do as I am told. Shes's the boss, as long as it is convenient.

Her thing is noise. Its on the ground floor now, on 6" os concrete/insulation/more concrete/tile, so vibration is not an issue. She just does not want to hear it.

So..... For my own enjoyment, we will have a laundry shute for down and a dumb waiter for up.

Brian. Floor trusses seem to be the worst for the kind of vibration that you are experiancing. Strong, but prone to this. I did a house for an audiophile and what we did was twofold. We sprayfoamed the floor as it was an open basement, and we poured a concrete block 1' thick and hid it with a cabinet. He was happy.

Myself, I'd rather have it upstairs, but I am not allowed to do laundry.......

Larry

Joel Goodman
11-30-2011, 6:33 PM
I have had both and the upstairs is way handier -- in fact we moved it upstairs in a house we rent out. Only advantage of the basement is if you like to do laundry before you go to sleep. I would try to add mass to the floor before you spend $s -- for example put 3 layers of 3/4" ply below the machine and make sure it's level. I'd screw the plywood layers together to make it monolithic. If it works then pretty it up with tiles or whatever. As an experiment that would not be much work or money. Also the front loader I have hates too many or too few items in it -- it makes a lot of racket either way -- wants a "medium" load.

Stephen Tashiro
11-30-2011, 9:59 PM
I have a second floor laundry room with a sink.

Do you turn the faucets to the washer off after every use of the washer? If not, think about what will happen if a hose bursts. Does the laundry have a floor drain - a big one?

Curt Harms
12-01-2011, 9:19 AM
Brian, I know you said you replaced your washer so this may or may not apply. We had a mid/late '90s White-Westinghouse front loader washer/stacked dryer. It would do what you're seeing -- shaking like a dog passing razor blades. They started to get tired and SWMBO replaced them with Kenmore Elite machines. WAY quieter and virtually no shaking or vibration. I think it may be due to some sort of continuously variable drive system. It starts out real slow and speeds up gradually. It will also reverse to help redistribute any bunched-up wet clothes. We're really happy with them so far. We have a second floor laundry with drain pan and line to the basement. Stephen has a point about the lines. We bought stainless steel braid hoses when we installed the machine rather than use the hoses that came with it. You can also get a box that installs on the wall. It contains solenoids that when the washer is powered up the water solenoids are open and everything works like it should. When the washer powers off the solenoids close and there's no pressure on the hoses. Another way to 'skin the cat' so to speak.

John Coloccia
12-01-2011, 9:23 AM
My wife and I have had long, serious discussions about this. I believe we decided that the IDEAL situation is a laundry elevator that goes from the bedroom to the basement.

I hope that helps.

Rich Engelhardt
12-01-2011, 9:40 AM
Myself, I'd rather have it upstairs, but I am not allowed to do laundry.......

ok - that just begs the question of "How did you manage to pull that off"? :D

I got out of paying the bills early on in marriage by letting a credit card bill go and getting socked a late charge. My wife insisted on taking over the bills after that. Best $10.00 I ever spent in my life.... ;)

Moses Yoder
12-01-2011, 10:10 AM
http://www.mcmaster.com/#compression-springs/=f69jwq I wonder what would happen if you built a platform for the washer and put these springs underneath it, one in each corner? Since it's front loading the extra height wouldn't matter. We have a small utility room on the side of our house that houses the washer & dryer, so they are on a cement floor. I really don't think the vibration from the washer is causing any structural damage to your house, unless it is very poorly built. The crack in the drywall could be coming from natural settling of the house for other reasons, such as a nearby window or doorway. The joists that the washer is setting on should have their ends resting on top of a plate from the studs for the first floor so they really have nowhere to go.

Brian Elfert
12-01-2011, 10:25 AM
Do you turn the faucets to the washer off after every use of the washer? If not, think about what will happen if a hose bursts. Does the laundry have a floor drain - a big one?

No, I don't turn off the faucets. Yes, there is a drain under the washer. The water issue that happened was with the laundry sink. The drain came loose due to all the vibration.

My major concern is the vibration possibly destroying the house over time. The Samsung front load washer I bought a few years is supposed to have an anti vibration system, but I would buy another front loader if it would vibrate less. I haven't purchased the anti vibration pads yet.

Bill Edwards(2)
12-01-2011, 2:52 PM
My wife and I have had long, serious discussions about this. I believe we decided that the IDEAL situation is a laundry elevator that goes from the bedroom to the basement.

I hope that helps.

Bingo! Dumb waiter. Break out the tools! and a few walls and some ceilings, floors, etc.

Harry Hagan
12-01-2011, 3:49 PM
I’d move it to the basement. The number one most costly homeowner’s category for insurance companies is water damage due to burst pipes or faulty laundry equipment on upper floors.

Case in point: Back in June my neighbors had a catastrophic plumbing failure on the second floor (burst pipe). After six months and $200,000+ they hope to everything back in order by Christmas.

Make sure your insurance company knows you have a laundry on the second floor and that water damage from that area is covered by your policy.

Kent A Bathurst
12-01-2011, 6:01 PM
From a woman's POV ............Running down to the basement with arm loads of dirty clothes........you may not always be single....

OK, Carol - Gloves are off now............SEXIST!!!!!!!!.

I am not considered competent to sort the clothes into the mystifying variety of piles, but I have been trained to pick them up, put them in the baskets, take them TO THE BASEMENT, how to wash, what to dry-dry, what to damp-dry, and what is don't-you-dare-get-these-even-near-the-dryer-and-I-mean-not-even-on-top-of-the-dryer-that-gets too-warm-are-we-clear, hang, fold, and take them back upstairs. I am competent to put my clothes away, but I'll be dadgummed if I want to risk a foot fault by putting the wrong unmentionables backwards in the wrong drawer....so her stuff gets neatly piled on the bed.

So there..........Pfffftttthhh!! :D :D :D

Larry Edgerton
12-01-2011, 6:14 PM
Ok, now I have it! A washer "IN" a dumbwaiter. That way you don't have to make up your mind and you can have a washer on all three floors. Brilliant!

Does anyone make a washer drier?

You know, put the cloths in, they wash and then dry without haveing to move them to another machine. I mean for crying out loud, we can put a man on the moom but we still have to shuffle cloths back and forth. Really?

My way, you put them in just before you leave for work, and when you come home they are dry. Seems logical to me, but I am sure there is a flaw in my plan because of some laundry mystery I am unaware of.

Oh Ya. Put cashmere sweaters in the dryer, spill the soap, use no softener, put a new red shirt in with whites, and above all act dumb. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.......

Larry

Kent A Bathurst
12-01-2011, 6:45 PM
Larry - they already have the exact technology you described. It is squirreled away in Area 51 with the 170 mpg engine that the Big Three kept off the market.

Brian Elfert
12-02-2011, 9:22 AM
They do make washers and dryers in one unit for motorhomes to save space. They take an incredibly long time for one wash/dry cycle. I don't know if the dryer cycle starts as soon as the wash cycle is done or not.

I can't imagine 2nd floor laundry rooms cause any more issues than bathrooms. A co-worker had a kid plug up one of his toilets somehow and the flush valve stuck open. The kid didn't tell anyone about the toilet overflowing and just went back outside to play. My co-worker's wife discovered it after the house was already badly damaged. Quite a bit of the house had to be gutted and redone to dry things out.

Belinda Barfield
12-02-2011, 9:29 AM
I am not considered competent to sort the clothes into the mystifying variety of piles, but I have been trained to pick them up, put them in the baskets, take them TO THE BASEMENT, how to wash, what to dry-dry, what to damp-dry, and what is don't-you-dare-get-these-even-near-the-dryer-and-I-mean-not-even-on-top-of-the-dryer-that-gets too-warm-are-we-clear, hang, fold, and take them back upstairs. I am competent to put my clothes away, but I'll be dadgummed if I want to risk a foot fault by putting the wrong unmentionables backwards in the wrong drawer....so her stuff gets neatly piled on the bed.

So there..........Pfffftttthhh!! :D :D :D

Would you be willing to teach this as a course? Particularly that don't-you-dare-get-these-even-near portion.

phil harold
12-02-2011, 12:29 PM
I have vibration isolation tiles under my washer and dryer (12"heavy rubber)
also screwed the top and bottom plates in to floor and ceiling joists then plywooded walls before sheetrock
made all the difference in the world

John Coloccia
12-02-2011, 12:33 PM
My hope is to one day be rich enough to simply throw away the clothes I wear and use new clothes everyday, just so I don't have to deal with laundry.

Actually, all i do is carry it from upstairs to the basement. The wife runs the washing contraption. She doesn't really let me near it anymore. She doesn't let me load the dishwasher anymore either.

"You're doing it wrong...ALLL WRRRROOOONNNNGGGGGG. You can't put this upside down like that! Look at all the room you're wasting. Why is THIS in here? HMMMM?????"

Okay, so I'm not complaining... :rolleyes:

Myk Rian
12-02-2011, 12:54 PM
Myself, I'd rather have it upstairs, but I am not allowed to do laundry.......

Larry
Lucky you. My Wife would love for me to do it.
A Tri-level here, so the laundry downstairs isn't a problem.

Mike Cutler
12-02-2011, 1:00 PM
Brian

I put the laundry on the 2nd floor about 15 years ago. While it doesn't shake and vibrate quite as badly as you describe in your setup, I know when the washer is in the spin cycle.
My washer and dryer are not on the floor. They sit on a pedestal that is anchored to one exterior wall, by studs, and one interior wall by studs, so in essence the pedestal floats above the floor. The pedestal also allowed me to install an overflow drain in the case that the washer overflows, there are excess flow checks on the water, so any water leakage would also go down the overflow drain. My washer makes it's own hot water, so I don't have to worry about hot water overflowing.

As long as the washer sits on the floor, it's going to cause the floor to act like a drum head and transmit sound and vibration. It has to come up off the floor. Either on a pedestal, or a vibration dampening "pad".

Larry
Yes they make a combination washer/dryer in a single unit. The cycle time is pretty long.

Brian Elfert
12-02-2011, 4:47 PM
I have vibration isolation tiles under my washer and dryer (12"heavy rubber)
also screwed the top and bottom plates in to floor and ceiling joists then plywooded walls before sheetrock
made all the difference in the world

Did you just screw the top and bottom plates instead of nailing them?


I put the laundry on the 2nd floor about 15 years ago. While it doesn't shake and vibrate quite as badly as you describe in your setup, I know when the washer is in the spin cycle.
My washer and dryer are not on the floor. They sit on a pedestal that is anchored to one exterior wall, by studs, and one interior wall by studs, so in essence the pedestal floats above the floor. The pedestal also allowed me to install an overflow drain in the case that the washer overflows, there are excess flow checks on the water, so any water leakage would also go down the overflow drain. My washer makes it's own hot water, so I don't have to worry about hot water overflowing.


Do you have a photo of this as I can't picture how this works in my head?

Larry Edgerton
12-02-2011, 6:07 PM
My hope is to one day be rich enough to simply throw away the clothes I wear and use new clothes everyday, just so I don't have to deal with laundry.

:rolleyes:

I did that very thing when I went down to help in the Katrina cleanup. I went down to work on bucket trucks as I am certified and there was a shortage. Dirty job! Greasy, oily, nasty mess, and getting clothes washed after working 16 hour days seven days a week was not in the cards, if you could even find a place to wash them. So.....

I went to a farm store every week and bought seven pairs of pants, seven shirts, underwear, socks and shirts. At the end of the day I threw them in the trash. I did that for five months.

Ahh, to live the life of the rich and the useless.......

Well, other than that sixteen hours a day part.

Larry

Mike Cutler
12-02-2011, 8:34 PM
Brian
I don't have any pics that would allow you to see the construction.
Basically it is nothing more than a raised platform made out of 2x8's that is affixed to the studs of the outside wall, and two interior walls ( This space used to be a closet). It is supported on three side. The 2x8's are boxed to the studs. On top of the 2x8 frame is an epoxy coated plywood base with 2" 4/4 stock, also epoxy coated, creating walls. This creates a "pan". There are two 1 1/2" PVC drains that connect together in the floor of the pan, and in the event of an overflow would drain the water out the house, and down the side of the house via a false gutter downspout to the ground.
The laundry Bib, also drains to the pan.

Now then, oddly enough, 15 years later we are putting the laundry in the basement, it used to be on the first floor. I will install an apartment combination washer/dryer upstairs because it really is a slick idea, and I think would help the resale of the house to have two complete laundry hookups.

phil harold
12-03-2011, 9:30 PM
Did you just screw the top and bottom plates instead of nailing them?

nails and screws
the idea was to make a box beam out of the walls and stiffen the whole structure

John Shuk
12-04-2011, 11:06 AM
I built my house with a second floor laundry in 2001 as well. I would never do it again if I were laying out the floor plan again. I spent ALOT of money to have my sheetrock joints redone and I have always used a toploader. I think that having the laundry on the first floor is a bit more efficient as well. Running up and down to switch the wash when a cycle is done is a pain. Within the first year in the house I found I regretted the second floor choice.

Jim Becker
12-05-2011, 9:10 PM
Second floor all the way for me...and that's exactly what I put in when we put our 2200 sq ft addition on back in 2008. With the exception of the guest suite, all our bedrooms are on the second floor and having the laundry there minimizes movement of both dirty and clean clothing. It also makes it easier for me to do the wash while I'm working since it's literally across the hall from my office. I still have the laundry in the basement of the 250 year old portion of our home, but it's now dedicated to "horsie" laundry...saddle pads, turnout blankets, etc.

I'm not sure about the structural issues that folks are raising, but our LG Steamwasher is balanced and vibration is minimal. Of course, our addition is also built like a proverbial brick, um...err....brick outhouse. Yea, that's the ticket!

Brian Elfert
12-05-2011, 10:08 PM
I guess I'm unclear how having a first floor laundry is any less running up and down stairs. Instead of walking upstairs to move laundry between machines now you have to carry baskets of clothes up and down the stairs. The choices for me are either second floor or basement. The first floor still has the vibration issues unless the laundry room is built with a concrete floor. I've thought about using steel columns and a concrete floor for the 2nd floor laundry if I ever build another house.

Brian Elfert
12-05-2011, 10:10 PM
I built my house with a second floor laundry in 2001 as well. I would never do it again if I were laying out the floor plan again. I spent ALOT of money to have my sheetrock joints redone and I have always used a toploader. I think that having the laundry on the first floor is a bit more efficient as well. Running up and down to switch the wash when a cycle is done is a pain. Within the first year in the house I found I regretted the second floor choice.

Do you feel vibration from your top loader throughout when it runs? Have the drywall cracks reopened after having them fixed?

Mike Cutler
12-06-2011, 7:59 AM
Brian

I'm with Jim on the the question of structural problems. In the time we've had the washer and dryer on the second floor, I've never had any issues with drywall cracking. Our washer is an ASKO 11505.
The only time I know the washer is running is in the high speed spin cycle, 1800 rpm.
My house is ballon construction built in 1919, maybe that facilitates some type of damping a newer construction house does not. I have no idea really. I can't see how a 1st floor laundry, with a basement, can have any less issues than a second floor laundry. Doesn't make sense to me.

Jim

What washer/dryer are using to clean turnout blankets? We kind of want to do the same thing. It was $25.00 to get a blanket washed and re-waterproofed this last time, so doing them at home would have to save me some time and $$$$.

Brian Elfert
12-06-2011, 10:55 AM
My house is built with floor trusses for both the 1st and 2nd floors. The builder did say the floors might be somewhat bouncier with the floor trusses and no load bearing walls. I wouldn't doubt the floor trusses contribute to my issue with the laundry room vibrations. Using floor joists would have meant a load bearing wall all the way across the basement and at least one post on 1st floor over that load bearing wall.

Lee Schierer
12-06-2011, 6:45 PM
In a few words, don't do it.

When (not if) you get a leak or overflow. It will damage the ceiling under it. The vibrations will drive you crazy. A laundry chute is far cheaper to install and the kids will actually use it. Routing dryer vents properly from a second floor can be an issue and cleaning them periodically is nearly impossible.

If you do put it on the second floor, be sure to include an automatic water shut off valve for when the washer is off and put a drain pan with a drain under it. Also install a water alarm to alert you when it does overflow or leak.

Jerome Stanek
12-06-2011, 7:01 PM
If it helps do it. I have my laundry on my second floor and love that you don't have to carry the clothes up and down stairs. Mine has beem there for 40 years and no leak problems. You just have to make sure you have good hoses and the drain is attached so it doesn't pop out.

Harry Hagan
12-17-2011, 5:51 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2011/12/15/nanotechnology-may-lead-to-the-end-of-laundry/

JohnT Fitzgerald
12-17-2011, 6:22 PM
We have front load W/D on the first floor, right off the kitchen. When we first got them - wow. I thought that end of the house would fall apart. I spend a lot of time properly adjusting the leveling feet, and now it's fairly quiet. The one major issue that would be hard to fix IMO has already been mentioned - if it's near the middle of a long span (joists).

As for 2nd floor laundry in general, we're looking at some renovations and we will definitely move the W/D upstairs. I will definitely take a lot of the above tricks and thoughts into consideration when building it out.