File envy...

[Mark Baldwin III]

...is not a condition from which I suffer. This thing looks more like a curved tooth float than a file. It's an old Nicholson that was given to me in a bucket of other rusty things. It needs a little more cleaning, but for now, it's just scaring the crap out of everything in my shop. Any opinions on what this type of file (float?) is truly meant for? Still very sharp, and very useable.

[Greg Wease]

I believe Nicholson calls this a Flat Standard file; other manufacturers call it a Vixen. They were first used in the auto body business but they work great on wood.

[Mike Olson]

i have one just like that, it leaves a surprisingly smooth finish.

[Trevor Walsh]

They are sometimes (and I do) referred to as milled tooth files, Vixen was a predominant maker. I think they might also be used on plastics, but can't quite recall. I've got one and love the surface and speed at which it cuts.

[Chris Griggs]

I feel like I've seen George mention using something like that for shaping brass (could be mistaking). Hopefully, he'll read this. He's likely to know exactly what it is and what it can be used for.

[Rob Lee]

Hi Mark -

These were called Lead Floats - used to shape soft metals...think manual milling..

If you google "Lead Float File" you'll find more information.....

Cheers -

Rob

[David Turner]

It looks very similar to my memory of a horse hoof file that a blacksmith uses before adding metal shoes.

David Turner

[David Weaver]

I have a vixen about that size. I found one in a machinst's booth in an antique mall - actually, there was a box of about 30 of them for $1 each, NOS.

I still haven't found anything to use it on, but I have cut my fingers a couple of times moving it around.

[mike holden]

Vixen files were heavily used in the patternmaking trade. I have a number of them obtained from the crib as I needed them. (ah yes!, the joys of having someone else pay for your tools. Tools from the crib were charged to the job at hand.)
Mike

[John Coloccia]

Back in my airplane building days, I used those to work aluminum. You can use it on wood like a float but it can be a bit grabby. If you like that on wood, you'd love the Iwasakis :)

[george wilson]

Rob has it right: They are lead floats. They will chatter very quickly on wood. I HAVE some Nicholson SUPER SHEAR files which are somewhat similar,but cut like crazy. They have OFFSET curved teeth,with teeth that are broken up by grooves cut diagonally down the length of the file. I got a Simonds file of identical design from Travers Tool co. several years ago. I do not know if Nicholson still makes them. Be prepared to pay at least $35.00 for a medium size one,though. I WARN you: never buy the 8"(or so) smaller model they made. They are never sharp for some reason. I've had 2 or 3 and they are never sharp like the larger ones.

The Super Shear files can build up a chatter,too,but with their offset teeth,a small change in filing angle every few strokes quickly eliminates the chatter,and they do cut like mad,even on metal. I have used them on large silver items. I would not use them on steel,but brass and silver cut like crazy. They have few teeth compared to a regular file,and they will dull,so I wouldn't use them on hard metals.

[David Weaver]

I thought I remembered seeing this more recent than almost three years ago. There are some 12" super shears on ebay (US made - but about half of what george mentioned above) and I got one in the mail yesterday. It's definitely a lot easier to use than the vixen and leaves a smoother surface, presume similar to the iwasaki, but twice as big and half the price.

Like everything else, there won't be any more new US made versions.

(just found a 10" version for half again as much as the 12, but no indication of origin).

[Chris Griggs]

Man...sure could have used one of these filing all that brass this weekend!

[Chris Griggs]

I sent a message to the Ebay seller and can confirm that the 10" Super Shears currently on Ebay for $7 are NOS Made in USA. I ordered one so that leaves 9 left for the rest of ya'll. I also ordered one of 12" that are going for like $17. I figure I'll use one for wood and the other on the rare occasion I need to file a soft metal.

[Jim Koepke]

I got mine.

Glad I checked in here this morning.

Thanks David.

jtk

[Gary Muto]

Hi Mark -

These were called Lead Floats - used to shape soft metals...think manual milling..

If you google "Lead Float File" you'll find more information.....

Cheers -

Rob

That explains why they would be in an Automotive body shop. They used to use lead instead of Bondo for repairs.

[Chris Vandiver]

I just ordered one as well. I'm curious to see how they perform.

[David Weaver]

You'll be pleased with how they cut. I was surprised, pleasantly so. Sorry to have enabled some folks today...buh...buh...but...it's a good deal :) (and of course, I have no skin in the game).

It's possible that the new shear cuts will be OK (the non US ones), but they are not as cheap as the NOS US ones, so it's not something we need to find out.

[george wilson]

The 10" Super Shear files (sorry I said 8" ones in a previous post) I had(3 or 4) were never sharp like the larger versions for some reason. Not 1 of them was sharp. I hope you guys have better luck with your 10" ones. I saw a few larger ones on Ebay,but I still have some of them.

[Steve Voigt]

You'll be pleased with how they cut. I was surprised, pleasantly so. Sorry to have enabled some folks today...buh...buh...but...it's a good deal :) (and of course, I have no skin in the game).

It's possible that the new shear cuts will be OK (the non US ones), but they are not as cheap as the NOS US ones, so it's not something we need to find out.

Hard to go wrong at that price, so I picked one up.
I've been very happy ordering Vixen files from yardstore.com ($12 last time I ordered). I'm sure these are import knock-offs, but they've worked very well for me, even in the hardest of tropical woods. I don't think I'd try them on brass though.
Anyway, I will be very interested to see how the NOS ones compare.

[Chris Griggs]

The 10" Super Shear files (sorry I said 8" ones in a previous post) I had(3 or 4) were never sharp like the larger versions for some reason. Not 1 of them was sharp. I hope you guys have better luck with your 10" ones. I saw a few larger ones on Ebay,but I still have some of them.

That's why I ordered a 12" also...just in case that was the case the (the "or so" made me think that it could either be 8 or 10). Cheap enough that even if they turn out to not be great its not a huge loss and I'm sure I'll still find some use for it. It'll be interesting to see if the 12 and 10 are different in this case.

That's weird that the smaller ones weren't as good. Anyone have any idea what might cause that. Different factory...or maybe cut on a different machine?

[Gary Herrmann]

Mill tooth file. They do work great on wood. They come in half rounds too.

[Randy Karst]

There are some 12" super shears on ebay (US made - but about half of what george mentioned above) and I got one in the mail yesterday.

Thanks for the tip David; one on order!

[george wilson]

Please do post how the super shears perform. Take an old USA file and check the front end of the imports(if they are imports) for hardness.

[David Weaver]

The 12" NOS USA version that I got is very cleanly cut and is as you describe - treat the edges like you would treat a razor during a shave - no lateral moves on the edge or there will be shaving of skin. It is not as sharp as a razor, of course, but it is plenty sharp to leave a very clean surface without lines or marks.

No clue when the 10" will arrive, but probably soon.

[Judson Green]

I've got two of these, haven't used either one. Got the one with the user made handle (and that's the reason I'm post this, thought you guys like to see that. Maybe make your own) back in April. It seems dull, is there a way to sharpen these? The file in the foreground is a Simonds Vixen (home defense file (17×1⅜×¼")) still pretty sharp. Got it just last week at a rummage sale.

268977
268978

[Chris Griggs]

My 10" just came. It's in an NOS box (that originally held 6 files). And sure enough, says Made in USA clear as day on the file and the box. Very cool. Pulled it out and inspected it. Looks very sold and well made, nice heavy chunk of steel. Rubbed my finger tips down the teeth lightly, and the teeth feel sharp and have some grab to them, but of course that doesn't tell me much. Hopefully, I'll have better luck with the 10" then George did. I'll put it to wood this weekend and report back, and of course, when I get the 12" I'll compare it to that to see how they compare....then I'll have to decided which to use for wood and which to save use for occasional metal work.

[Michael Ray Smith]

These were called Lead Floats - used to shape soft metals...think manual milling..


Rob, I see that the Lee Valley web site lists Nicholson milled-tooth files. Have any plans to sell floats?

Mike

[Michael Ray Smith]

Rob, I see that the Lee Valley web site lists Nicholson milled-tooth files. Have any plans to sell floats?

Mike

Oops. Sorry. I missed the Japanese plane-maker's floats.

Mike

[george wilson]

Chris,if your 10" file grabs your skin,it sounds plenty sharp. The larger ones were sharp enough on their big teeth,to easily cut yourself.

[David Weaver]

Oops. Sorry. I missed the Japanese plane-maker's floats.

Mike

I would advise against the japanese plane floats unless you intend to work on small planes where something else does most of the work, only or unless you absolutely can't lie-nielsen plane floats. They are too small (both in physical size and tooth size) and a float is something you should really be able to get a good full hand grip on.

It's unusual that I'd say this about anything LV markets, but you can make a float out of O1 stock that would be more appropriate (especially an edge float, where only the first few teeth really need to be full hardness) for use in making wooden bench planes and wooden moulding planes than the japanese floats, there's no merit to curved teeth on side or cheek float (actually, they would be a detriment to sharpening and relegate sharpening to a professional sharpening surface, and it's likely they'd cut more slowly since cheek and side floats remove material more or less by shoveling/prying it off cross grain), and they are quite expensive for what they are.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks for the input George. Just feeling it and seeing your and Davids report on the 12" I think it is probably plenty sharp (sure feels pretty sharp) but perhaps not as sharp as your and Davids 12". It does grab my finger tips a bit especially where they are calloused, but it doesn't seem like it will easily cut me (i ran my fingers lateral across it to just to see if it would slice a bit). Also, one side seems like it is just a hair grabbier/sharper than the other.

My prediction, is that when I put it to wood it will work very well, but that the 12" (if its as good as the ones you and David have) will work even better. Even if its not as good as the 12" it certainly seems like it will have been a totally worthwhile buy for $12 shipped it cost. Should work every bit as well as the Iwaskis, which I adore, it was a good bit cheaper, its larger and it has 2 sides. Looking forward to trying it out on some wood!

[Chris Vandiver]

I received my 12" Super-Shear today. Excellent tool at a very reasonable cost! Thanks for the heads up.

[Chris Griggs]

Just tried out my 10". Cutting very nicely. Similar to a float, but still at the same time different...very very similar to the Iwaski's. I imagine nearly identical to the ones that are "medium" cut. My Iwasaki is an xxfine so the super shear is obviously much coarser. Very very nice tool....and a down right steal for what I paid for it. Hogs wood off in a hurry, and will kick the crap out of the flat side of my brazilian Nicholson 49 for rough shaping...smoother surface and much faster cutting (no surprise there though). I was right, one side is definitely (but very minimally) sharper then the other but the less sharp side still cuts nicely, just not quite as quickly, and you can feel that it's not digging in quite as readily. Great buy. Thanks Dave and George for the recommendation! Very very excellent. I think I'll save this 10" for next time I need to file a brass saw spine (these will work well on bras right George?) and use the 12" for wood. That 12" will be great for when I finally decide to put some cabriole legs on a project (well for the convex parts anyway).

I think there are still a few of these on ebay...maybe not the extra extra cheap 10", but pretty sure I saw some more of the $17 12" earlier today....get one folks..they are great! Easily as good as an Iwaski's, bigger, 2-sided, and less expensive.

[David Weaver]

I've bought several things from the lady selling those. She seems to have a whole bunch of new and NOS stuff (it rotates, but includes some machinist and jewelers files) for about half of retail. I bought a dozen 8" heavy taper USA nicholson saw files from her thinking they'd be regular taper, but they really did make a "heavy taper" profile. Those were about a quarter of retail.

[Jim Koepke]

My 10" arrived yesterday. It seems like an awesome tool. Haven't taken it out to the shop yet.

After checking on my ebay notification I looked at the other stuff listed. Wish that was done before paying. Could have saved a few bucks on shipping for a #1 Morse taper drill chuck I bought for my lathe.

jtk

[Randy Karst]

Update: Like Chris, I ordered both a 10" and a 12", they arrived yesterday. Both are similar in quality and sharpness, neither appear to be quite as sharp as George or David's. Both are sharper and cut faster than my Simmond's Vixen style file and still leave behind a smooth surface - a good purchase.

[george wilson]

I don't know about BRAS,Criss,but they work well on BRASS!!!!!:):):)

[Chris Griggs]

I don't know about BRAS,Criss,but they work well on BRASS!!!!!:):):)

Ha! That was an unfortunate, yet hilarious, typo on my part. I'll keep them away from bras, but will definitely set one a side for BRASS:). Even if I only make one or two other saws it will be a worthwhile use!

[Mike Holbrook]

Maybe Chris is using his on brassy people, so I am keeping my distance.

I messed up I think. I was late to the party but I love my Iwasakis so I tried to get in on this too. There were still 12" NOS Super Shears available but for $20. I clicked on one not noticing the $15 shipping fee, grrr. Maybe these files draw blood every time one has to be shipped? I sent the shipper/seller a note about the shipping so we will see. So don't get in a rush ordering theses like I did. I am usually very cautious on that auction site. It must have been one of those rasp feeding frenzy things, so be careful out there.

I went back and read George's post again, apparently what I paid is just about what George said the 12" file should sell for.

[David Weaver]

There are a couple of sellers on ebay. the one with the cheapest 12" files goes by the name herajane. The other person was shipping from canada. No affiliation with either, of course.

[george wilson]

MANY years ago they were $35.00 for a 12",as I recall. I guess you still got a good by . I haven't bought one since the 80's.

[Jim Koepke]

So the chuck arrived an was taken out to the shop with the file. Made a handle and drilled it using the new chuck. Heck, now it seems like it will be easy to make handles for tanged chisels and files.

269350

The ferrel on the file handle is just a piece of copper pipe.

All but one of the dogs were made today. The rough one on the left was made using a hollow auger instead of the lathe.

The shiny parts on the file is where another file was put to the surface. It seemed to roll across the surface more than it cut once it go past the surface color.

jtk

[Halgeir Wold]

Interesting read.....
a question, though, even if I know it is slightly off topic....
does any of you have any experience with the swedish Bahco / Sandvik files....?
That's usually what we get our hands on over in this corner..... Mr. Wilson, maybe ?

[george wilson]

David Weaver has. He discussed Bahcos earlier in this or a similar thread. He likes them.Actually,I think it was in that sales pitch thread about files a new guy put up.

[David Weaver]

Everything bahco or sandvik that I've ever gotten my hands on has been at least as good as a contemporary us made nicholson version.

[Max Withers]

I got a little carried away when I read this late the other night and bought one of the 12s despite not really needing one for anything. I haven't tried too hard, but it does not seem likely to cut my skin unless I do something really stupid (which has been known to happen).

I tried it out on some small pieces of red oak and pecan I'm working on, and though it's much too big for what I'm doing, my impression is that it needs a big surface (of wood) to be useful. It is too grabby for delicate work, but seems like it will work quite nicely when you can put some muscle into it.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, you would have to bear down your grip or make a "lateral move" along the length of the teeth to cut your skin with it. It does get a grip, though. The 12" one is pretty big, definitely not for small delicate work. There is an 8" version, but I didn't see them cheap. It can only be a matter of time before some NOS ones show up on ebay, though, and not in the pack of 10 or whatever it is that they are selling them as now.

[Randy Karst]

Hi Guys, Update that may or may not be news to some of you (I think Chris mentioned about the Iwasaki). This weekend, I obtained a 10" Iwasaki that seems to be based on the Nicholson Super Shear pattern (nothing new under the sun?). The Iwasaki is sharp enough to cut a finger, if one were careless and it leaves a finish similar to the Nicholson but cuts faster than the couple that I ordered from eBay, though a little more expensive, if the Iwasaki last, I think they are worth the extra money.