White Waterborne Lacquer or Poly I can trust?

[Peter Quinn]

I'm looking for a new white finish for cabinets and millwork. I won't mention which brand I'm using now, but I'm done with that junk. Done. Lots of problems. I'm using a WB HVLP conversion gun, I have tip sets from 1.2MM-1.8MM. I'm looking for a good dependable opaque white base or primer/base system. Anyone spraying anything they would recommend that doesn't take a degree in alchemy and a box of chicken feet with a favorable moon phase to get to work? I'm looking for a point and shoot one part system that levels without running, sprays out of the can, can be tinted if necessary. I'm not looking for latex and solvent is out due to shop environment. Any thoughts? I have a short list of names but wondered if anybody had any suggestions or success stories? Thanks.

[johnny means]

I get great results using M.L. Campbell's and Valspar's WB lacquers. Sprays great right out of the can. I can typically spray 2 coats of primer and top coat within a single shift. The primers sand real nicely do a nice job of hiding little imperfections.

[Peter Quinn]

Sold. Thanks Johnny. I'll give them a try. I have an ML Campbell dealer that is real convenient to my location. They don't stock WB products, but they brought in a few gallons of Satin Aqualente as a clear, I have had good results shooting that. They have a second location a bit farther from me that has the full MLC Aqualent line and is set up to custom color as needed. I'll give them a try. I prefer a local option for convenience. I've also been looking at Target and General, both of which I have used in various clears but never opaque colors. Neither has a local distributer, both involve shipping which a problem in the winter for WB coatings!

With the finish I will no longer be using, I shot their clear first, no issues. Great price, fairly close quick cheap shipping. I got their white precat lacquer, its like Skippy peanut butter out of the can, makes most latex look thin, by the time its thin enough to get out of the gun its too loose to cling to verticals at all. Stutter for a millisecond and the whole thing looks like a Dali painting. Call CS, might as well call the local mental ward and ask for a split personality patient with schizophrenia. No help, no info, lots of accusations immediately. So Now I'm a bit gun shy of both pigmented coatings and new products.

[Andrew Joiner]

Stutter for a millisecond and the whole thing looks like a Dali painting. Call CS, might as well call the local mental ward and ask for a split personality patient with schizophrenia. No help, no info, lots of accusations immediately.

Peter, If you ever get tired of wood finishing, you might have a career in comedy! I did laugh hard when I read it.

[Victor Robinson]

I was going to give Target Coatings EM6500 white lacquer a go on an upcoming project. Hope that's not the brand you were talking about...

[Peter Quinn]

I was going to give Target Coatings EM6500 white lacquer a go on an upcoming project. Hope that's not the brand you were talking about...

No Sir. I have shot two Target clears and both were fantastic. I like that they sell quarts too for smaller projects. I have considered their white lacquer too. I'm going to try the ML Campbell because the dealer is right up the street and the lead time for custom colors is maybe one day. I hear nothing but good things about Target though I have not heard a lot about their opaques.

[Peter Quinn]

Peter, If you ever get tired of wood finishing, you might have a career in comedy! I did laugh hard when I read it.

Thanks, it couldn't go worse than my finishing act. Tired of wood finishing? I'm already there! ARGGHHH. I feel like Charlie Brown when Lucy yanks the football away; finish goes down well, looks great to me, I go to clean the gun, come back, what in the name of all that is aesthetic has happened? I seem to wind up taking small side jobs that I can sneak in between my kids naps and the rest of my life. The clients on these small jobs don't seem to want to hire a actual painter or finisher as a second sub on "such a small job". So I wind up playing finisher out of necessity. How hard can it be? :eek: If only I knew what I was doing. Luckily I have a good sander and lots of sand paper, and I'm not afraid to use them. So when I called the tech at a finishing company that advertises nationally whose product I was having a minor melt down over, and Robert Dinero's character from taxi driver answers, I was stunned. Four or five times I''ve tried to spray this stuff, I check the viscosity, I measure some water, thin the mud, I add some retarder. I'm starting to think I would be better off drinking the retarder, because it isn't doing anything good to the finish. Second thought maybe I don't need that?

[Larry Edgerton]

I use AquaCoat WB clear. Its an industrial supply company and will do custom mixes in as small a container as 5 gallons. 1 gallon containers are available. I order their WB reducer and use in in everything WB. Their WB stains are pretty good as well. Made in Wisconsin.

Primer, I use Sherwin Williams adhesion promoting primer and my current favorite paint is Grahams ceramic.

Wasn't sure if you were asking about clear or paint, so there you have it......

Later, Larry

[John Coloccia]

If the Target white is anything like EM6000, I think you'll be happy. Jeff really seems to be focused on producing user friendly finishes.

[Peter Quinn]

I use AquaCoat WB clear. Its an industrial supply company and will do custom mixes in as small a container as 5 gallons. 1 gallon containers are available. I order their WB reducer and use in in everything WB. Their WB stains are pretty good as well. Made in Wisconsin.

Primer, I use Sherwin Williams adhesion promoting primer and my current favorite paint is Grahams ceramic.

Wasn't sure if you were asking about clear or paint, so there you have it......

Later, Larry

I'm pretty much covered on clears, lots of good choices that seem easy to shoot. Even my work looks decent with most that I have tried. Its the opaques I'm searching for. I have a small job that involves making and shooting maybe 10 cabinet doors, some drawer fronts, a little box mod for a new sink. The last thing I did was semi gloss white, and the product I went with was a nightmare. Precat acrylic waterborn fudge. This week end I had to shoot a few odd pieces to match for a change order on it, and its still a nigthmare. Some how I have to make the 1 qrt I have left work, then never again.

I've read a few things about the Grahams ceramic on different sites, I'm hearing easy application, tough as nails. How are the colors? Is it truly a matte finish? I'm wondering if it might be a substitute for a milk paint with clear over coat for kitchen applications? Thats a pretty popular schedule here in New England.

[Charles Brown]

Thanks, it couldn't go worse than my finishing act. Tired of wood finishing? I'm already there! ARGGHHH. I feel like Charlie Brown when Lucy yanks the football away; finish goes down well, looks great to me, I go to clean the gun, come back, what in the name of all that is aesthetic has happened? I seem to wind up taking small side jobs that I can sneak in between my kids naps and the rest of my life. The clients on these small jobs don't seem to want to hire a actual painter or finisher as a second sub on "such a small job". So I wind up playing finisher out of necessity. How hard can it be? :eek: If only I knew what I was doing. Luckily I have a good sander and lots of sand paper, and I'm not afraid to use them. So when I called the tech at a finishing company that advertises nationally whose product I was having a minor melt down over, and Robert Dinero's character from taxi driver answers, I was stunned. Four or five times I''ve tried to spray this stuff, I check the viscosity, I measure some water, thin the mud, I add some retarder. I'm starting to think I would be better off drinking the retarder, because it isn't doing anything good to the finish. Second thought maybe I don't need that?

On behalf of all the Charlie Browns in the world (real name), I'd like to offer another solution to your dilemma. At work (and in my shop) I/we use the Zinsser Shellac based primer and it is awesome. Clean up / thinning is with denatured alcohol and we spray it through our HVLP at work. Sand it with some 240 sponges and it's as slick as a baby's you-know-what.

As far as the coloured top coat, I'm afraid I don't have any recommendations. I have no real love for any of them.

[Peter Quinn]

Charles, I like and use the Zinsser shellac base on occasion, but I can't spray flammables in the home shop because the spray room is not set up for it and its in a residential neighborhood. Stink attracts attention quick, and so does fire! I often use Zinsser's seal coat applied with a quick pad to minimize grain raising, I have even tinted it towards white to good effect. Some how the amount of alcohol that flashes off when padding on shellac is not nearly as problematic as the fumes from spraying. If its coming out of a gun in my shop it has to be water borne. The only thing I like less than finishing is being trapped in a basement shop spray room in an alcohol fire ball.

[chelsy hurry]

If the Target white is anything like EM6000, I think you'll be happy. Jeff really seems to be focused on producing user friendly finishes.
Jeff is great for sure.

[Daniel Berlin]

Jeff is great for sure.
+1
Jeff is a great resource.
FWIW:
I have shot both General's pigmented poly, and target em6500.
The General pigmented poly had a pretty high viscosity (I didn't need to thin, but I have an HTE gun, not straight HVLP).
However, it flows out absolutely *beautifully*.

The em6500 was definitely thinner. It also came out nice, but not quite as nice.

[Jim Becker]

Target EM6500 would be my choice. I used it's predecessor two generations back to do my kitchen back in 2003.

[joe milana]

+1 for the General pigmented Poly. Made a "pro" out of me almost from day one. I've had good luck with their undercoater as well.