How to get this color

[Chad Easterling]

It has been a while since I have done anything that wasn't painted or fauxed. I need to produce a finish (color and depth) like this one-

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The stains I used in the past (mostly Minwax as that was all that was available to me at the time) never provided this type of "depth". Any suggestions on stains, dyes and or finishing techniques would be greatly appreciated. I will be working with clear pine that has this texturing "applied" to it.

Thanks!

Chad

[Scott Holmes]

I would start with a dye to set the base color, then seal the dye in with garnet shellac mixed fresh from flakes.
Next step would be a gel stain, seal it in, finally the top coat.
You should do sample pieces at least 6"x12" working all the way through you finishing schedule. Keep detailed notes of the Dye stength, gel stain color, etc.

[Chad Easterling]

Can I use a de-waxed garnet shellac? Does it need to be diluted? What cut? The table is approximately 80" x 40". How much product will it take?

Using shellac is new to me. I'll have to order everything on line. That is why I'm asking so many questions.

Also, start with a deeper base color dye or lighter dye with darker gel stain?

Thanks for the input.

[Jim Creech]

Chad,
I am hesitant to mention this technique primarily for safety issues and product availability but I use it frequently when I want an "Antique" finish. I use a 20% Nitric Acid solution. Brush on the acid covering as large an area as you want to work at a time. Allow the acid to soak in for about 5 minutes or so or until surface appears dry. Using a heat gun, heat the surface until it turns brown. What you see is what you get. Additional acid or heating will not darken any further. When the coated area has been completely "developed" neutralize with ammonia or an ammonia based cleaner. This step will give off Horrible fumes so make certain you have good ventilation or are outside. Allow to dry overnight or longer. Next. I use 0000 steel wool so smooth the surface then apply a Danish Oil or Tung Oil finish. As it is still technically bare wood you can use any finish you like. I have not used shellac as a final finish. No particular reason, just haven't done it. Note: there is no overlap so you can do small areas at a time. Should an area not take because of some glue or other surface contaminate just sand the area off and re-apply the acid. If you desire a darker look you can stain using any type of stain then final finish. This technique gives a very nice patina and appears to be what you are trying to match. I will try to post some pics tomorrow.

Jim

[Chad Easterling]

Jim,

Thanks for the info. I'd like to see your pictures. Sounds like a neat technique. I believe I can get the nitric acid at Grainger.

[Scott Holmes]

Chad,

Using chemicals to alter the wood are dangerous and also somewhat hit and miss colorwise. Old school methods are still used by some.

I would be willing to bet that if you went back in time to when the chemical alterations where the norm ( they didn't have all the amazing dyes we have today) and you showed them how to do a better job (more uniform color) that was more colorfast, safer and easier. They would have stopped using the chemicals and purchased all the dyes you could bring back to them in your time machine.

Yes you want the base color to be the lighter of the two show in your picture. Then the gel stain is the darker glaze coat. De-waxed garnet shellac in a 1# to 2# cut would be about right. 1 oz of flakes in 1 cup of denatured alcohol (DNA) is a 1# cut; 2 oz in a cup of DNA is a 2# cut. A cup (8oz) of shellac or so is probably enough. you want a THIN even coat, sprayed is best.

[Chad Easterling]

Mr. Holmes,

Thanks for all of the info. I'll get the product ordered and start testing.

My brother is a chemist and has access to the chemicals and protective equipment. I agree, however, I'd much prefer non-hazardous methods. A little research revealed that many of the famous instrument makers used the chemical process mentioned above to color their instruments, especially their bows for violins, etc. Some interesting reading.

Thanks for all of the information. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Chad

[Chad Easterling]

One other quick question..... I am using clear pine (the DW wants a very distressed look, and this will definately take the dents from the kiddo....). Should I put a sealcoat on the wood prior to using the dye on it? I plan on spraying everything using a gravity fed HVLP gun.

Thanks!

[Prashun Patel]

I'll chime in:

Don't use the sealcoat on the raw wood; it'll inhibit the dye from penetrating as darkly as you might need.

You should though do a lot of your distressing prior to applying yr glaze. The glaze coat adds the age. You're simulating grime and oil buildup. You need crannies and crevices and corners for it to get into.

The boards in your pic look like they've been roughmilled only. When you do yr surface prep/sanding, be sure not to remove these marks.

[Kent A Bathurst]

One small yeahbut to Prashun's post........

Yeah, but.........I've always had success preventing blotching on Cherry with 3/4# +/- shellac. But then, I've never done anything with pine, so that may not apply. YMMV.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I would be willing to bet that if you went back in time to when the chemical alterations where the norm ........that was more colorfast, safer and easier. They would have stopped using the chemicals and purchased all the dyes you could bring back to them in your time machine.......

Like - all the way back to 1998 when I did my first couple pieces of mission furniture via fuming? :D I'm glad I did that once or twice, but dye & gel stain do just fine, thanks..............

[Howard Acheson]

Are you finishing another hatch cover? If not, what species is the wood you are using? Does it already have some finish on it?

[Chad Easterling]

This is a new table I am currently building. I'm distressing the wood using saw kerf marks from the tablesaw, handsaw "damage", hammers, ripples from the jointer (1 blade slightly raised), etc.. My main concern was blotching on the pine when I applied the dye.

[Ken Shoemaker]

+1 for dyes. I never use pigment stains at all anymore.

[Rich Engelhardt]

When the coated area has been completely "developed" neutralize with ammonia or an ammonia based cleaner. This step will give off Horrible fumes so make certain you have good ventilation or are outside. Allow to dry overnight or longer
No doubt the fumes will be nasty!
Interesting technique though.
I don't recall ever seeing/reading/hearing that process used to shade wood before.

I'd love to see some pictures.

[Jim Creech]

214484214485214486214487Some pics. I am not a photographer! These are some random shots of items treated with nitric acid. The valance and Pouting chair were made about 28 years ago of Ash and have an oil finish. the other two pics were done just to show the effects on different woods. Left -Pine, Right clockwise from top Ash, Maple, Spruce, Pine, Red Oak, one coat of amber shellac.

[Pat Barry]

How is the texture applied?

[Jim Creech]

There was no texture applied. The pieces were sanded smooth then treated with the nitric acid and neutralized with an ammonia cleaner. When dry, the pieces were rubbed down with 0000 steel wool to get rid of the fuzz and finished with a hand rubbed Oil finish. There is some grain raising due to being wetted down twice.

[Chad Easterling]

Thanks for the photos. I'll have to give it a try on a smaller item sometime.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Jim,
Outstanding!
I've never run across that particular technique before.
The results are dramatic.

[David Fielding]

I have never posted before, just read and learned, but I can GUARANTEE you that Scott Holmes is dead on. I got advise from him on two loft/desk beds I just finished and what a difference made. He certainly knows finishing. THANK YOU SCOTT..