Help with applying Lacquer finish to small turnings

[Jack Gaskins]

Hello to all.

I have some questions on applying spray lacquer to small turnings like birdhouses and finials and such. I have sprayed a first coat of lacquer but it leaves a rough finish and when I sand the finish it leaves scratches. How do you guys apply your lacquer? Off the lathe or on? Speed of Lathe? What do you use to sand the finish with? Do you use a cream or paste to wet sand the lacquer? When making birdhouse ornaments should I spray the pieces (top, house and bottom finial) before I cut them off the lathe? One more thing, does anyone use an airbrush for spraying their finish and does this work better than using a can or wipe on?

Thanks,
Jack

[Bob Bergstrom]

I would not apply any lacquer with the lathe spinning. It would spin the edge of the largest circumference. Both an air brush or a detail spray gun will atomize much smaller particles than a rattle can. If a rattle can must be used, I suggest warming it in warm water. This will help the lacquer flow out better. You can buy either a detail gun or airbrush at Harbor Freight cheap. If you want a good airbrush use a 40 or 50% off coupon at Hobby Lobby. Iwatas are very good. The also sell the compressor so bring your wife with another coupon. If sprayed with an airbrush, there will be a minimum of sanding if any.

[ray hampton]

using a airbrush to spray a finish will cause a rough finish because the finish is almost dry when it reaches the surface in some cases, several light coats is better than a heavy coat

[robert baccus]

If using lacquer it will not hide or cover any scratches or wood pores. buy some good quality heavy bodied sanding sealer and apply a couple of coats unthinned. sand with 220 and your lacquer should look fine. on small round pieces like finials a spin on finish like shellwax or hut gloss pen finish would be easier and faster.------------old forester

[Bernie Weishapl]

Jack I always put a coat or two of shellac on before the pieces come off the lathe. I then spray my lacquer after they have been glued and assembled. I tried it with the lathe running and it don't work. At least in my case it didn't. Looked like I had sanded with 40 grit paper.

[Russell Neyman]

Lathe turned off. Absolutely.

[Jack Gaskins]

Jack I always put a coat or two of shellac on before the pieces come off the lathe. I then spray my lacquer after they have been glued and assembled. I tried it with the lathe running and it don't work. At least in my case it didn't. Looked like I had sanded with 40 grit paper.

Do you use wipe on Shellac or spray on?

[Jack Gaskins]

using a airbrush to spray a finish will cause a rough finish because the finish is almost dry when it reaches the surface in some cases, several light coats is better than a heavy coat

I've never seen a finish up close after it was sprayed on with an airbrush but there is a youtube video of the General Finishes guy using an airbrush to spray on the Genreal Woodturners finish and it appeared to look great. Although he didnt show a close up of the finish.

[Jeff Nicol]

Jack, Over the years I have used lacquer an many things and I will spray a few light fast coats on the lathe and will sand in between maybe the 2nd and third coats, but if the finish is not completly dry, even if it feels dry it is not CURED. This is why you will see scratches in the finish, but like already said if the sanding marks are in the wood they will stay no matter what, so make sure you have sanded out the grit marks from each proceeding grit and make sure that the piece is blown off or brushed off to ensure prior grits are not left on the piece or contaminate the next grit. I know this is redundant, but if you are using some softer woods it is easy to scratch the wood, so just a refresher. But on to the small scratches in the new lacquer, the next coat will melt the prior coat and become one, that is how lacquer is built up and a deep finish is attained. So depending on the amount of finish you put on will determine the time it will cure fully, light coats, a day or 2 and longer as you apply heavier and deeper coats. Temp and humidity will effect this also, but bor small ornaments like you mentioned, I will just put on a few coats after the shellac sanding sealer like Bernie said and if the sanding was scratch free you will be able to get a nice glossy shine the next day with a light buffing either with your hands or a buffing wheel. Make sure not to get the finish hot as it will melt off and that is no fun!

One last thing, Deft brand rattle can lacquer is the best for the price, nice fine spray and drys very fast.

Jeff

[Russell Neyman]

As a lifelong lacquer man, I will second Bernie's advice about a base coat of shellac. Lacquer goes on very thin and dries even thinner, so it really shows all the scratches and sanding marks. I like lacquer because it is water clear and about as tough as any wear surface made. It can be wet-sanded and buffed out, too.

You have several options for the application of shellac. You can spray it, brush it, or wipe it on. If you go the wipe on route, you might need to cut it with denatured alcohol. That first coat, especially, will enhance the grain if you can get it to penetrate, so a thinner cut is helpful with some woods. Actually, I sometimes apply it, then wipe it off with a DNA-soaked cloth, because the residue gets down into the wood fibers. Shellac has a much higher build, and one or two coats with a bit of steel-wooling between each application will give you a smoother basecoat and, because of the deeper penetration, you'll have a deeper finish, too. And don't forget that you can get shellac flakes in several colors, or clear. These also enhance many woods without laying on the surface like some stains do.

Lacquer dries so quickly it just doesn't penetrate below the surface, so the shellac base enhances it.

[Jack Gaskins]

What do you wet sand the shellac with, water or some type of cream?

[Russell Neyman]

What do you wet sand the shellac with, water or some type of cream?

My preference is to hit the shellac with 0000 steel wool, and if it feels like it needs it, 400-grint sandpaper. Some guys wet sand the lacquer with water as a lubricant, going as high as 800. I'm sure some other guys will chime in with their methods, too.

[Bill Hensley]

This past week I experimented spraying lacquer with an old airbrush and I was very pleased with the results. I cut it 2 to 1 part thinner. I also upped my pressure to ~ 45#. The overspray is reduced significantly compared to rattle cans and the finish is smoother than I've ever received using either rattle can or my HVLP gun. The downside is it will take more coats due to thinning.

I will confess I spray on the lathe, I put it on low range and turn it ~ 25 rpms as I spray. Using a raking light I can see my spray pattern, starting at the base and moving towards the end. As soon as I finish spraying I turn the lathe off and slowing rotate by hand to ensure it doesn't run to the bottom. I continue to rotate slowly until the coat sets up. Then repeat.

I should also mention I run my dust collector to capture the fumes and overspray but I cover the inlet with a piece of filter to capture the overspray. There is no odor nor fog hanging in the air as I spray or afterwards.

My sealer is usually 2 coats shellac or sanding sealer, either lightly sanded with very fine grit or 0000 steel wool depending on how smooth the sealer coat is.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Jack,
Spraying lacquer successfully is half art and half science with a whole lot of experimentation mixed in. Besides temperature of the lacquer, the humidity and the temperature of the work are all a factor. You are making a tiny turning. By the time you pull the trigger, you're done. I think your best tact might be a wipe on lacquer or a wipe on poly. Both are easier to deal with for a tiny piece than setting up to spray. Wipe on Poly does a great job and can be buffed to a very rich sheen. It is available in small containers and easy to use. You can even start with a coat of shellac if you want, though I am not convinced it is needed. If you do, be sure to buy de-waxed shellac.
faust

[Peter Elliott]

If your spraying small items, I highly suggest Deft Spray Lacquer (spray can) found at the box stores. I have used a lot of rattle cans, keeping them for back up if my spray equipment is out of service.

If you buy shellac found at the box stores, you need to cut with achohol down to 1lb cut or even 1/2 lb cut. Just the natural color will give your project a slight amber tone of color and brings out the wood grain. If you buy Sealcoast at the box store, it's a 2lb cut and you'll need to cut it that down too. Sealcoat is dewaxed and might be a good choice if cut in half. But I really think people using shellac like the tones brought out in the woods. It's a great finish.

The also sell shellac in a spray can and it does very well on small projects. It is dewaxed and cut down to 1lb (it maybe 1/2lb) but shoots very well. I think dewaxed is the route for any base layer if your going to top coat it with another product, even laquer.

shoot it with can of Zinser shellac spray can - very light coat - it will run quick if you overly spray
sand with 400 to take the nubs off - lightly
2nd coat of spray shellac - light coat
sand again - lightly
spray with Deft lacquer ( I like semi gloss) - light coats - no sanding between coats
Keep spray deft lacquer every 10min or so until you like what you see.

Sounds like a lot but this is maybe 30mins on a small project. Both spray shellac and deft dry extremely quick.

Let it dry 24hrs -48hrs if you plan to buff it.

Hop over to the SMC finishing section and you'll get good info on buffing out lacquer or any other product.
Don't worry, the guys over there are nice too ;)... "the water is warm" !

As every finishing person will tell you.... DO A TEST first... find a similar piece of wood and try the finish schedule.
I keep those test samples, write on them what I did and keep for future reference on what "look" I may want.

ps. You can use the deft lacquer as a base coat.. spray 2 layers, sand in between and top coat with the same till your satisfied.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Jack I mix my own shellac. I buy the super blonde flakes and mix with DNA to a 1 lb cut. I brush it on with a natural bristle brush. Generally one or two coats are enough and I hit it with just 0000 steel wool between coats. Once this is dry I part the piece from the lathe. I then will spray maybe 5 to 9 light, light coats of lacquer. I feel the key here is not to put on to heavy a coat at a time. I use Deft rattle can lacquer as I feel it is the best. As was said even if the lacquer feels dry and you sand it isn't really dry for about 72 hrs and will leave a rough surface with sanding marks. I never sand lacquer between coats. Haven't really felt the need to on small items. If it feels a little rough I hit it with 0000 steel wool only. On bigger stuff such as a HF if I use lacquer I might wet sand a couple of times between coats with 800 grit and water but most of the time a little steel wool works fine.

[Josh Bowman]

Jack,
I like lacquer and the smell makes you feel sooooo good:D. I also agree with Jeff that Deft is good stuff. However you have to understand that wood when first hit with most liquids will absorb into the fibers and cause them to swell or as it's said raise the grain. So I allow that to happen with the first couple of coats and allow it to cure for a day or so and gently with 0000 steel wool shear those fibers off, trying not to remove much of the finish. You'll know if it's not cured enough, when you get a kind of gooey mess, just stop and let it cure hard and go at it again with the 0000 wool or fine sand paper. The result after the wool will be dull but smooth. Then I reapply coats until I get the thickness of the film I want. If you buff it at the end, you better let it cure until you can't smell any of the finish, or you'll just melt it off, don't ask how I know that:o. What's good about lacquer is it melts into the previous coat, unlike poly which should be sanded between coats to produce a tooth. Also it drys to the touch very fast, so you can re-coat after 30 minutes or more.
Old time car guys use it on their antiques cars because it can produce a very clear and deep shine.
The attached bowl has several coats on it. I had some problems because a couple of areas would not take the finish. I took some shellac on my finger and just rubbed it over those areas and problem solved.

[Prashun Patel]

I've used a decent amount of Deft from the rattle can - as well as the Brushing Lacquer thinned down and sprayed thru a cheap HVLP sprayer.

I can say that it is about the easiest thing to spray. Even in my impatient hands, I have been unable to mess it up. I've never experienced blushing, orange peeling, or drips and runs - things that I have experienced with even shellac.

I would spray it OFF the lathe. 3 quick passes. Let it dry a few minutes, and re-apply.

[Larry Pickering]

Off lathe, 2-3 wet coats, don't worry about runs or texture, let dry to touch, sand smooth with 320 or 400 dry, apply one more wet coat scuff with gray scuff pad then one final wet coat.

[David DeCristoforo]

As many have pointed out, if the scratches are in the wood, they will show through the finish. But fine sanding scratches in a coat of lacquer are not really a problem. The next coat will "burn in", effectively dissolving the the previous one, fine scratches and all. Final lacquer coats should be heavy enough to "flow out" but not so heavy that the material runs. I sand lacquer with 220. As long as the surface feels dry, you can sand and recoat. However, you should let the finish cure for at least 24 hours before final rubbing out an/or polishing.

[Russell Neyman]

Josh Bowman's point about doing touch-up with shellac is an important sidenote. Shellac is the "universal primer/sealer" and is compatible with pretty much everything, and his tip about filling in imperfections is a good one. And for bigger holidays, you can mix a little fine sawdust with the shellac and it's the perfect filler. There other thing is that if you have a poly-finished object that your want to refinish with lacquer, an intermediate coat of shellac will make the transition possible.

Having touted the merits of a lacquer finish several times here, I admit that recently I've begun to use wipe on poly on certain projects because it has a much higher build in fewer applications. I like both.

[Jack Gaskins]

Wow, lots of great info. Thanks for all the suggestions. Will have to print this thread and post it by my lathe to try some of these suggestions out.