Poor cut quality with a powermatic 15s planer.

[keith micinski]

So, I recently bought a used Powermatic 15s that had about 5 hours of use on it and was in mint condition to replace my DW735. I thought I was making a great desicion on making the upgrade because I hated how underpowered my 735 was. I am starting to think that maybe should have went a different way. A few things I am unhappy about is that there is no gauge to tell you when the board is going to start getting its initial cut. I never used this as an accurate measurement on the 735 but it was nice to stick the board up there and then just lower the planer down till the gauge moved. I also don't like that there are no positive stops on the powermatic for standard board dimensions. I have a digital read out that is nice but I really liked having the positive stops to make 3/4 boards at any time and even if I messed up I could come back and make another board the exact thickness. The digital readout doesn't seem to be quite as accurate at this. One of my biggest complaints though is I have never used a machine that had a serrated roller instead of a rubber one and when you need to just clean a board up with a really light pass it leaves little marks in the board because you aren't removing enough material. I have lowered the tension on the indeed roller but I don't think I can lower it any more and I am still getting marks if I try to make a really light pass. Other then all of those complaints I am happy.:) The planer came with a new set of knives so I went ahead and replaced them while I was checking all of the settings and making sure everything was set properly. I will say the knife replacement took time but I didn't have to worry about lining the blades up because there is a little channel that tabs on the blades run in so they are self aligning. The problem I am having is that I ran some poplar through the machine yesterday and I was getting a pretty good surface for the most part but in some areas I was getting little scallop tear out pieces that didn't appear to have anything to do with grain direction. The only thing I could think of was to try lowering the chip breaker a little more even though it is set to the factory settings. I was going to take a picture but I wasn't sure if the little chipouts would show up in the photo. What do you guys think?

[Mike Heidrick]

Here is some solutions you could try.
Try different wood and see if that makes a difference on chipout.
Get a scale, set it up corectly on the planer (no need for digital), grab calipers and set your table height to start.
Remember the handle positionget at 3/4" or just over (leave room for sanding) Count rotations from that spot.
Try not to take super light passes on a planer.
Best of luck to you.

[John Aperahama]

You are comparing a lunchbox planer to a 500 pound gorilla with three blades sharpened at a 30-35 deg angle pounding around at some ungodly speed it cannot take feather thin cuts it is not a delicate machine. A lunchbox machine has all the whizzbang guages to make it well, exactly that "whizzbang". The gorilla on the other hand will run all day everyday as to the chip outs, it could be anything wood, sharpening angle, feed speed,anything but thats why we have sanders even these larger machines have a learning curve I am continually adjusting pressures as I am working and I do almost exclusively pine.

[glenn bradley]

As stated, I think you have an improper expectation of the tool. The move to a floor model was a diligent study for me. Lunchbox planers are often called 'finish' planers for good reason. The rubber rollers allow you to shave off a 32nd or less without undo machine marks. The larger machines are made for milling rougher stock but, can be adjusted to minimize roller marks.

I have a Grizzly G0453Z which is the same basic form-factor. It sounds like we have the same thing in common; a wish that the larger planer had rubber rollers ;-) Skipping the differences in feed rates and cutter heads, here's some things I do/did to minimize problems.

- Don't get rid of your finish planer yet. My DW734 is still sitting in the corner waiting just in case but, I found that after a bit of adjustment . . . well, I have not powered up the DW734 since I got the floor machine.
- Come to grips with the fact that this is NOT a finish planer. Kind of like getting used to which chisel or plane to reach for a given task; other than being planers, your DW735 and you 15s have little in common.
- I took great pains to assure a level feed path from indeed table tip to out feed table tip
- I adjusted the bed rollers at zero. That is; even with the tables.
- I adjust the indeed and out feed rollers quite light in relation to the cutter head. These planers are designed to have their setup altered based on the type of stock you are milling. It’s pretty quick and easy considering.
- I adjusted the tension on the feed rollers MUCH lighter than the spec. You do need to be careful to leave enough thread engaged on the one adjuster that sets higher (or this may be a Grizzly thing). I have my tension adjusters so light I marked them and put a drop of hot glue on them to assure that they stayed put.
- Hold your material down flat to the indeed table. Don't just shove the material into the machine; that way lies snipe.
- Control your material at the out feed as well. I press down on it a bit to assure a valid travel path, ergo, no snipe.
- Do not take less than 1/32" off in a pass. I added a DRO to my planer so I can go precisely to the thickness I want. This precludes "sneaking up" on a dimension but, does teach one to measure his desired thickness more diligently ;-)

I found that after about a week of practicing my "new" technique and modifying my expectations/approach to the machine; all has gone well except with very soft woods like mahogany and pines.

[keith micinski]

Well I already sold my 735 so that's not an option. As far as counting revolutions and using calipers every time I want to plane a board I think I would quit working with wood. The positive stop is kind of annoying but not a deal breaker. These features just seem like a no brainer on a 2000 dollar machine. All I want is a a little flap of metal that shows me when the cutter head is roughly going too come in contact with the board. As a matter of fact I am going to make something up as soon as I get laid off.

[keith micinski]

I forgot to add that I do have a 16/32 to do my finish sanding so that helps but I would almost rather just buy another lunchbox planer to clean things up because my 735 left a finish that was amazing when it was all said and done

[Jeffrey Makiel]

One of the biggest reasons why I haven't upgraded to a full size planer is quality of surface finish. I've read too many posts that indicated that the final finish on stationary machines was less than anticipated relative to portable machines. This was because of the serrated outfeed rollers common on many stationary planers.

I'm a hobbyist. So, production is not important. I'd rather have good quality vs. time saved.

My only caveat is that it would be nice to have a planer that has spiral or helical cutters to dimension funky woods. I understand that helical/spiral cutters is also quieter. That's important as I do woodworking to relax. However, I must admit, my crappy old Delta portable planer (circa 1990 with no cutterhead lock) does a great job on making things smooth and will achieve my specified thickness in due time. I just need to wear ear muffs as this thing is deafening.

Again, time is not important to me.

If I do upgrade to a stationary planer, it will have a smooth outfeed roller as to prevent the issue you raised. Wood costs too much these days. And, my spare time, and my shop's air quality, is too valuable as to just achieve a great surface that a $1,500 planer failed to do.

Maybe I'm wrong on this. It won't be the first time!

Jeff :)

[keith micinski]

I'm starting to feel his way also. I got a pretty good deal on this planer though so my thought was always try it out and then if I didn't like it I could probably sell it for what I have into it. It is nice how quiet it is and the extra power is also nice so we'll see, I haven't run enough wood through it to make a decision anyway.

[david brum]

I think there's some light at the end of the tunnel. The stock thickness gauges on these planers are pretty primitive, for sure. For $40 on Amazon, you can get a Wixey planer thickness gauge which will make your life much easier.http://www.wixey.com/planer/index.html. You have to be a bit creative to fit one to a stationary planer, but it's not difficult. These digital gauges allow consistent repeatability, which it sounds like you're after.

The infeed roller marks are usually most noticeable on soft wood like pine, etc. You shouldn't see it on harder stuff. I've also seen the marks begin to disappear over time with my planer, I suppose because the ridges on the serrations aren't as sharp. I've read this before and I think there's something to it.

Lots of guys are upgrading to spiral heads on their stationary planers. The finish is pretty good with a spiral head, but should be pretty darn nice with standard blades on your planer, as long as they are adjusted right and are sharp. It sounds like your machine uses an insert blade system. Are those ESTA blades with disposable inserts? You can always have a set ground with a back bevel to help with tear out.

[David Kumm]

Keith, as David said don't give up. 15" stationary planers have some design limitations compared to bigger ones but are still better over the long run than lunchbox types. The cutterhead might run a little slower but if adjusted correctly it will give a great surface. You will get out of the habit of running such light passes as the machine will give a better finish with a deeper cut- regardless of the type of infeed roller. Large machines are built to operate best in one pass or at least deeper cuts. I have a Wixey on my DC 33 and a proscale on my Oliver 299. Proscale is way better but way more expensive so get the wixey. Check the knives as even the esta system can get out of whack. Some index off the jack screws, some off the cutterhead. Don't go so light on the pressure that you lose the benefit of the stationary design which is to hold the wood firmly and eliminate vibration. Get some canning wax and use it on the beds. Keep the feed rollers flush with the table as non power bottom rollers are poor idea anyway. A oneway dial indicator upside down on the table will give you the actual height of the knives, chipbreaker and upper rollers. Best accessory for setting planers, jointers, and sliding tables. Dave

[keith micinski]

I have the digital read out already. My problem is when I take my board from the jointer and it is some random thickness around an inch or a little less I may have to run the board threw 2 or 3 times before I get it to cut anything. The 735 had a simple metal flap at the front of the planer that raised up once it touched the board and let you know roughly what kind of a cut you were going to take. The marks on the boards from the indeed roller really isn't a concern unless I try to clean a board up and I don't take enough off. I still haven't figured out what the magical number is yet on how much I have to take off to remove those lines so that I don't have to sand them out. this head is actually a spiral head in that the blades flex around the head so its not a segmented spiral head but you still get some of the cutting advantage. I am not crazy about this head design as of yet so I think before I upgrade the head I would probably just move it down the road. I kind of wanted a new grizzly with the segmented head and am starting to wish I would have just went that route although I would still have a lot of the same issue's I currently have with the powermatic.

[keith micinski]

I also noticed that the rollers really do need to be set flush with the tables to eliminate snipe. I have no clue why they are even there because they are at best useless but probably more of a detriment. I will just have to get used to the no light passes thing but when I have a board that is .775 I have no choice but to make a light pass if I want to end up with a 3/4 board.

[Rick Fisher]

Normally what happens when you get into bigger machinery is you start using different stock.. I upgraded from a Makita 2012 and remember the exact same types of complaints you have ..

Then I discovered all the amazing woods available in rough.. Rift cut red oak in 8/4 .. tropical hardwoods like Sapelli etc.. Even rough Maple.

I have a General Int 20" HH planer and can easily dress down face jointed 2x10 Oak or Maple. Its not that the DeWalt or Makita cannot technically do the same, but its where the advantages of a cast iron machine really shine through.. Do a glue up 14-1/2" wide for that powermatic and feel free to push it through.. it will impress you how easily it flattens the board..

[keith micinski]

Ya I definitely see the advantages of the bigger planer I just wish it didn't come with trade offs while costing 3 or 4 times as much.

[glenn bradley]

With the DRO on the planer I just measure the board I have just jointed with a caliper and set the planer for a bit thinner than that to start. Easy-Peezy.

[david brum]

Same here.

[keith micinski]

Ya just not as easy as setting the board on your planer and raising the table till it raises a little meal pin signifying zero.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Make your own stops. After you get a board to exactly 0.750, using calipers measure the gap between the bed and bottom of the cutter head at the post with the height adjustment knob on it. Plane a block to this thickness, and just put it under post to stop lowering the cutter head at desired thickness. Remember you can crush this block if you lower too much.

[Kevin Presutti]

Keith,

Assuming you followed powermatics instructions in the owners manual as I did before I started this reply, clean is very important as well as alignment with the 3mm tool. That said you say the guage when set and you proceed with the board does not cut it seems the guage is not in time with the bed. I am not physically familiar with the 15S but it would seem one could adjust it as it had to be installed on assembly and there is a p/n listed for it. If that is not an option adjusting the bed to the cutting knives would be the next option. I am replacing my blades for my PM100 and it too has a serrated infeed roller. I read an earlier post several weeks ago that either had a link or referenced Bob Vaughn. This video he has on youtube is very informative and gives general tips based on the issues one may have witheir specific planer. Chipbeaker settings seem to be crucial in preventing tearout and Bob covers this very well in the video. Some planers have their own identity and what works for an infeed roller on one planer may not be liked by another planer of the same make and model and may require some adustment. Manufactures specs are a baseline at best, the tweaking for your planer is up to you. One thing that bothers me was you only mentioned this planer had 5 hrs. on it, you did not mention whether this was a store return, purchased from an individual, or a store demo. This makes me think it was sold for some of these and possibly other issues with the machine. I hope you watch this video and find it as informative as I did. I really feel like I have a better understanding of how these machines operate after watching this several times. I hope this helps.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-986589700074242027 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-986589700074242027&q=bob+vaughn&hl=en)&q=bob+vaughn&hl=en (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-986589700074242027&q=bob+vaughn&hl=en)#

[Cary Falk]

I have the G0453Z sporal 15" planer. I set the bed rollers to .000. I eased up on the infeed and outfeed rollers to get rid of the infeed and outfeed roller marks. I only get them when I send the board back through without taking off any wood. It can be done. I put a DRO on it. I have not felt I needed to take off a tiny amount. The spiral head and low noise made it worth it for me.

[keith micinski]

Yes I could make my own gauge blocks and that would definitely work, or a planer that cost roughly 2500 dollars new which is 4 to 5 times as much as most lunch box planers could just incorporate it into the design. I guess I am not being clear. The gauge I am referring to is not the depth gauge on the planer. That works fine other then having to mess around getting it set to that exact number every time instead of just turning the crank to the pre set stop. The gauge I am referring to is in this photo, it's the last photo and it's the gauge in the middle, http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW735-13-Inch-Thickness-Planer/dp/B0000CCXU8/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t It doesn't tell you the thickness of the board and it doesn't tell you the height of the table. It tells you the relationship of the top of your board to the zero of the cutter head and roughly how much material is being removed. There is no need to dig out calipers and measure every random rough sawn board you have and then go over and adjust your planer height to that number for every board. That system works and it works fine I just don't like the fact that you pay significantly more and lose a feature that makes working quicker and easier and costs almost nothing to add to the planer. The floor planer does a different job then a lunch box planer, and it does it well, I guess I am just curious why for this much money it can't be made to do most of the things a lunch box planer can do. There is no reason not to have these easy to use features included into the planer. The serrated in feed roller is one thing that could use improvement. I find it hard to believe that they couldn't design a rubber roller system that uses enough pressure to still feed the board under heavy load conditions. If it was segmented then I can see the need for a serrated roller but otherwise I am not seeing it. Again having a planer that can hog material off due to its size and power is a great option but if I have a board that only needs a little cleaned off the expensive tool now becomes less usefull and actually cause's more work and sanding. I knew most of these limitations going into this purchase I just didn't realize how much it would irritate me. Thanks for the link to the video Kevin I am sure there is a lot more I can learn about this planer and I'll take a look at it.

[keith micinski]

I already have a pretty good idea how to make the zero gauge for the top of the board and hopefully it won't look to crappy. Maybe I'll get rained out tomorrow and have time to make it up.

[Stephen Stark]

Those small scallop shaped divots may be caused by inadequate dust/chip collection. The uncollected chips stay on the fresh board surface and are squashed into the wood by the outfeed roller. What CFM are you using?

[keith micinski]

I wondered about that also Stephen. I have the harbor freight dust collector and it usually does a pretty good job but I am going to investigate it more tomorrow since I already got rained out.

[Don Wacker]

Your machine should have a depth of cut limiter. My 20" is exactly 1/8". I run the machine up to the top of the material and back off as needed using the scale.
The limiter can be adjusted to a perfect 1/8" or 1/16" with card stock.

Don

[keith micinski]

Ya that depth bumper doesn't really do a lot of good unless you are using a full width board and mine is currently not set right anyway. I should be able to build my prototype deth of cut gauge tomorrow since I have the day off.

[Don Wacker]

Ya that depth bumper doesn't really do a lot of good unless you are using a full width board and mine is currently not set right anyway. I should be able to build my prototype deth of cut gauge tomorrow since I have the day off. The limiter is fixed so just put a board under the limiter that tells you exacly the cutter depth then move the board off to the side if you dont want to cut in the center of the table. It cant change unless you shim the limiter. If i want to make a 1/16 cut i run the table up to the limiter then back down 1/16. Its always 1/16 cut no mater what position the wood is in. Your 15" also has no pressure bar so elevate your infeed and outfeed tables to make up for lack of pressure bar.Don

[keith micinski]

Ya I want to find zero of the cutter head not an 8th or anything else that involves having to subtract dimensions from the scale. Also as nice as the digital scale is trying to hit an exact number isn't as easy as it sounds and then you end up adjusting it two or three times.

[keith micinski]

So I just spent some time messing with the settings again and I think I have it dialed in about as much as it can get. I lowered the chip breaker and I took some pressure of of the infeed roller and am getting pretty good results. I have a little bit of snipe but I bet I can get rid of most of it if I raise the indeed and out feed tables a little. If not, it isn't enough that it will kill me. I haven't run but probably 20 board feet through this planer but I hate to say I think I might just be a lunchbox planer man after all. I really don't do that much woodworking except in the winter when I am laid off and I may have gotten a little carried away with a floor model planer. I think I might be putting this thing up on the classifieds sooner rather then later.

[Paul McGaha]

Sorry to hear that you're not happy with your planer Keith.

I understand that it may not be able to take as light a pass as a lunchbox planer. Or have thickness presets like some lunchbox planers have.

I went from a Ridgid lunchbox planer to a planer very similar to yours except it has a byrd head and I couldnt be happier with upgrade. Quality of cut is reallly good, much more powerful tool, far less noise. No looking back for me.

To each their own way.

PHM

[Jerome Hanby]

Or have thickness presets like some lunchbox planers have.
PHM

I've never verified the pre-sets on my Ridgid, I just assumed they wouldn't be reliable and used my digital callipers. Are they pretty close?

[Paul McGaha]

I've never verified the pre-sets on my Ridgid, I just assumed they wouldn't be reliable and used my digital callipers. Are they pretty close?

Jerome,

On my Ridgid, the presets were close and they were consistant. I used them routinely.

PHM

[keith micinski]

I was able to set my Pre sets and even I they aren't it doesn't really matter. As long is everything is the same what you are calling 3/4 becomes 3/4.