Calabash and photo tent questions

[Patrick Doody]

Hey guys, I haven't had much time to post lately but I'm still turning. I'm working at setting up an online gallery for my stuff and my wife's pottery. So, I setup a light tent, but I'm not sure I'm doing the best job of lighting, if you can tell me what can be improved upon, that would be great. The bowl is sugar maple it's about 9" at the widest point(that I can remember from the couch). The background is just a white cotton sheet I think it looks greyish but the bowl colors seem to be a close representatio. Any thoughts or tips would be greatly appreciated. I hope everyone had a great thanksgiving! I will also add, I am using 2 daylight balanced cfl bulbs one on each side of the object.
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6221/6403030429_b71cac190b_z.jpg

[Don Kondra]

It helps if you post a shot of the set up but on a quick look I would suggest you move the lights more towards the sides of the object :)

Try one light from four oclock and the other at nine oclock. Move them closer/farther and notice how their positions affect the "shadows" at the base.

If the lights are 5500k you should be okay with auto white balance.

Get the object as far forward of the backdrop as you can, ideally two to three feet.

Etc... :)

Cheers, Don

[Joe Watson]

Don't think ive seen a shape like that - looks good.
9" wide ??? Looks small and tall in the image - guess no reference.

[Scott Hackler]

Your white balance is off, causing the blueish tint and it looks like the exposure was a bit too long. As Don said the lights could be moved more to the side, but with a non high gloss finish the lights are a little less of a concern.

[Robert Henrickson]

Don't think ive seen a shape like that - looks good.
9" wide ??? Looks small and tall in the image - guess no reference.

It did look much smaller in the photo than the actual dimensions. Nice display of the wood grain. I have seen the shape before -- the shape is typical of early second millennium BC western Iran (part of my dissertation).

[Patrick Doody]

Great comments guys! Scott I think I've got the white balance figured out. Don, If I move the lights too much more to the side I get a shadowy front, but I'll try your suggestions and play around a bit. I'll try to post some more pics this morning and a shot of my extremely basic setup. I was thinking about adding an acorn into my photos to give the piece some scale. Do you think this is a good idea? How else can I make the piece look bigger? As far as the shape goes I've been making a few calabash bowls and I went a little non traditional on the rim of this one. Its got a little Mahoney in the rim, at least thats where the inspiration came from. Tough to hollow these things with a bowl gouge and a scraper.

[Don Kondra]

Maybe think about adding a pencil or a coin to give some scale.

More lights might confuse things but if you do decide to add more I would start with one slightly right of camera front and another from the top onto the background.

Also play with some white foam core used as reflectors. For example, light camera right/reflector camera left. Observe the effect on the shadows.

Ideally you want one "shadow" mimicking natural sunlight.

Cheers, Don

[Mark Levitski]

Patrick, first I would suggest not using a black and white photo to present your work :). Just kidding......yes, you definitely need to play with the white balance, and part of that is how the background affects it. It depends on what camera you are using, but best results are sometimes had with neutral gray background. There is as much of a learning curve to photographing your work as there is to creating it. Research the topic on this forum and others. There are some good photographers that can or have chimed in re: this. Good luck..........Mark

[Scott Hackler]

Patrick, what kind of camera do you have? I only ask because I don't have a light meter and was having a lot of trouble dialing in my white balance, but I discovered that my Canon T2i allows you to take a picture of a blank white piece of paper (in the tent) and calibrate the white balance to that "white". It fixed my problems instantly. I guess it helps to read the manual! :)

[David DeCristoforo]

Since my "photo tent" is actually a "tent" that houses my shop and seeing that the "skin" is white vinyl "rip-stop" material, there is excellent diffused light inside all day. So my photos only require a simple backdrop. i have always preferred "diffused daylight" to any other lighting. There's enough to worry about what with apertures and shutter speeds and ISOs and depth of field and all that other crap that the last thing I need is another worry about shadows...

[Kenny Jacobson]

Of all thing techniques I've tried and equipment I've bought/made, I think the most bang-for-the-buck is buy a good graduated background. I have the Flotone Gray Thunder (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/17747-REG/Flotone_GFT409_Graduated_Background_31x43.html) and it has improved my photo quality by an order of magnitude. I've found that my graduated background and a nice overcast day outside yields much better photos than my light tent with my expensive photography "natural" light bulbs inside.

The other lesson I've learned by looking at galleries online (like the del mano gallery site http://www.delmano.com (http://www.delmano.com/)), is that even though I want to show off the amazing depth of field my expensive lens can capture, I think with our art, it's the details that count, so you don't want any blur on the subject. I mention this because the back of your bowl is in the blurry zone (I'm sure other will disagree with me...that's fine). But I adjust my F-Stop more towards the "pinhole" side of things. This aperture, of course, will require a longer shutter speed, so I make sure I have the camera on a tripod with a remote switch so my unsteady hands don't shake the picture.

[Patrick Doody]

Yup I've got some stuff to work on for sure. I do plan on getting a better background. I also figgured out how to do the custom whitebalance. So I think it may be a fey days before I get the stuff I need together to take some more pics. But I already see an improvement with the custom white balance and moving the lights back. I'll post some more pics whe I get setup properly. Look like I'll have to read through the camera manual too. ;)

[phil harold]

I prefer not to use CFL
I use halogen lamps
or diffused sunlight

[Jamie Donaldson]

Once again I suggest that you search my tutorial on the Phrugal Photo Studio for reference in setting up your light enclosure. Using a single light source eliminates problems with multiple highlights and shadows, and diffused light bounced off a white surface at about 45 degrees from the front works well for most all turnings. Don't place any extra light on the background, because the brightness draws the eyes away from the wood itself, the primary subject of interest.

[Rick Markham]

I agree with DD, diffused sunlight is always the best option. For those of us that can't a phototent is next. I get the best results with two lights at 45 degrees to the object. (I use two free standing photo spotlights.) My tent allows me to enclose the front as well and peek the camera through a hole in the front.

Scott, that's an absolutely fantastic feature of the T2i, I LOVE mine!!!! I just took a bunch of portraits today :) That is seriously a professional camera, and the picture quality shows. We might have to compare notes ;)

[Patrick Doody]

214163
so I got a new background, some white ragboard, and i adjusted my camera to a custom white balance, and moved the lights back, difusd them a bit more with some press-n-seal. i think this is a tough piece because the heartwood is a greyish tan, not a ton of color in it, I feel like it's either too dark or too washed out. this was the best of my test shots with the new setup.

FWIW i have a Canon EOS Digital Rebel Xsi(no i don't know how to use it very well)
camera settings:
f stop f/5.6
exposure time 1/160 sec
ISO-1600
exposure bias 0 step

[Scott Hackler]

Change your setting to something like the following (from what I have learned):

F stop to f22 (will close the aperature and give you a more consistant focus across the entire piece and creat a better depth of field
ISO to 400, a high ISO is for low (non controlled light) situations. High ISO can introduce noise.
Alter the exposure time for several test shots until you find the "sweet spot"
The white balance still seemed a little bit off, if you just set it to "custom" without setting the custom manually, it really doesn't correct things. Your camera is likely similar to my Canon T2i and you have to take that test picture of a white paper in your tent/area and in the menu, choose "set image to custom WB" or something like that. Otherwise you might have to adjust the photo in a editor like Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro (which is what I use).

Its getting better!

[Don Kondra]

I disagree.

Set the f stop at f8 - 10 and leave the iso at 100 or whatever the base iso is for your camera.

Shoot in aperture mode, use a tripod and two second shutter release.

From http://www.learnslr.com/slr-beginner-guide/digital-slr-learning-guide/av-mode-aperture-priority


When you drop aperture down to a lower F stop, for example from 8.0 to 11.0 you are narrowing the diameter of the hole light passes through to reach the sensor. Because lenses are limited due to their optics, stopping down too far will result in a softening of your image. The softening effect is called “diffraction” and is the result of light bending once it has traveled through the small aperture hole. Unfortunately, due to diffraction you often times will lose the benefit of an increased depth of field achieved by stopping down your aperture. There is a balance and on more recent DSLR’s the balance tends to be between F8 and F11.

Cheers, Don

[Jamie Donaldson]

A much better image, but the R side light is too far toward the back, rather than about 45 degrees from the R front side, creating an unwanted shadow in the L front of the turning. I suggest eliminating the L side light completely, and bouncing the R side light back into the L side with a white bounce board, to open the shadows without creating a second highlight. Scott has given good suggestions about lowering your ISO setting, although your lens may not stop down all the way to f 22. If you bracket your exposures in aperture priority mode, a selection of images will give more useable choices, and a white background most often requires an exposure pre-set in the area of +1 f stop on the camera.

[Patrick Doody]

214166
OK, some more experimentation, i'll double check the WB but I'm pretty sure I've got it set. anyways, i've changed a few things around so it wouldn't hurt to re check it.

this one was taken with a single light source (2 bulbs) in my "diaper super softbox"
and i have a little tinfoil on the opposite side to bounce a little light back.
ISO-800
F5.6
1/100 sec.
I'll try the settings you guys suggested and post some more photos tonight, thanks for all the help!!!

[john davey]

I agree with Don here. F8 is going to be closer to the sweet spot of the lens and will have more depth of field than you need for a 9" bowl. F22 is great for landscapes but not needed here. ISO 1600 is also not needed at all in a controlled environment. Use ISO 100. The tripod and 2 second delay are both great suggestions. Changing a white background to grey can be a symptom of exposure. There is a reason portrait photographers have a light on the background as well as the subject. If you expose for the bowl and it is 3 feet in front of the background I would expect the background to look a little grey. Not a bad thing. I actually have one background for portraiture that is grey. I can make it look white, grey or black by how I expose it. Since you have 2 lights experiment with aiming one at the bowl and one at the background. Move the lights until you get an exposed bowl and white background. Personally I would rather have 2 lights on the subject and deal with the slightly grey background. Or of course you could add another light :). As far as custom white balance goes it does work. But to be honest the cameras are really nailing WB now on auto. Wedding photogs still use it (think white gown and black tux). And what you are doing in product photography with a white background I can see using it. But remember changing the WB will not change the grey to white. Getting more light on the background will. By the way nice job on the bowl...John.


I disagree.

Set the f stop at f8 - 10 and leave the iso at 100 or whatever the base iso is for your camera.

Shoot in aperture mode, use a tripod and two second shutter release.

From http://www.learnslr.com/slr-beginner-guide/digital-slr-learning-guide/av-mode-aperture-priority


Cheers, Don

[Patrick Doody]

ok after much experimentation i think we're getting somewhere!
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7030/6422246019_ca868a6c54_z.jpg
shutter priority mode
F/5.6
iso-100
1/4 sec. exposure

most of the pics we tried on aperture priority mode were overexposed, and i messed aroud quite a bit with that. this seems to be the best representation of the piece so far, tonight we're going to take a ton of pics and hopefully put some stuff up for sale so i can get my "bigger lathe fund" going. any thoughts on the latest image? there's still a hotspot, but maybe i can diffuse the light a bit more, maybe move it back some more.

[Don Kondra]

Hi Patrick,

This image is looking much better :)

What metering mode were you using in aperture mode ? If you can find the setting :) tie the metering to the focus point...

You still haven't posted a shot of the set up, that would help us with suggestions on light placement, etc..

Cheers, Don

[Ken Hill]

Try moving the light closer and higher and keep your current settings

[Jamie Donaldson]

Your L side light is still quite "hot" and should be diffused, as well as moved forward to place the R side shadow more toward the back quarter. Your fill on the R side looks fine, but your problem with aperture priority doesn't make sense, and eliminates your control over depth of field. Did you try bracketing your exposures using the same f stop?

[Mark Levitski]

Patrick,

I'll chime in again, but I don't want you to think I'm picking on you , so don't read between the lines here: Forget the shadows, the light positions, even the depth of field and the tripod (some good suggestons nonetheless). The color is all wrong and you need to experiment more with your particular camera. Seriously fellas, you guys think that is the color of hard maple? My wife thought it looked more like an unearthed bronze vessel, and then she asked (knowing it was turned wood) if it was dyed.

You can revert to an auto mode for better color as was said, but if that doesn't work, the camera might be suspect (I doubt it).

We use a Nikon D40 and use aperture priority, ISO 200, direct sunlight w/ various sub-settings plus or minus. We've got a couple of white photo tents and use daylight CFL's. Adjust the F-stop for the depth of field, yes use a tripod and remote if you can. More important: experiment with slightly different settings and take a series of photos. Then pick the best one. Sometimes you can get camera guides for your particular camera online that will help you with more support.

Keep the faith............Mark

[Patrick Doody]

maybe it's my computer, I'm viewing these photos on a cheap HP netbook, here is another photo taken with the same settings, there's a penny in the photo, it's a shiny new penny so that will give you an idea if my color is off, to my eyes it looks right but like i said im on a computer with a fairly basic small monitor. what do you think?
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6096/6428145371_9ba31ae1bf_z.jpg
BTW I don't feel like anyone is picking on me, all the comments are helpful.

here's a pic of my setup:
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6054/6405835427_b2ccbdcdcc.jpg
my "softbox" is a diaper box lined with tinfoil and i'm using a few layers of press-n-seal to diffuse the light. i've replaced the cloth background with some white ragboard, also i now have 2 lights in the softbox and none on the right side.

[Don Kondra]

Hi Patrick,

The color looks pretty close to me on a calibrated IPS monitor.

You might have better results if you just drapped a white bed sheet over the sides and top and eliminated the "softbox" :)

Cheers, Don

[Ken Hill]

Calibrated monitor here as well, coloring looks fine. I agree, get a sheet and shoot through the sides.

[Joe Landon]

I have used Jamie's Phrugal Photo setup for a couple of years. It is an inexpensive setup that yields professional results.

Thanks again for sharing, Jamie.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Can't add much about the pic's but the bowl is really nice. Like the form.

[Mark Levitski]

Here are two photos of hard maple. One is merely a quick one of a hollow form sitting on the lathe under the shop flourescents. The other is a photo tent shot of a spalted hard maple bowl. Although I'm still learning a lot, compare the warmth of color of these two to Patrick's results so far and decide what you would rather see and what is more true to the wood that you have. P.S.--I don't know how to remove the duplicated attachment.

214265214263

[Ken Hill]

He claimed the piece was lacking color and described it in his 1st post. His eyes arent off even if his camera settings were, and the penny is spot on. In the wider shot, the blues of the totes and the red item in the background are true colored, and the piece is still being represented as the color he describes.....

[Jamie Donaldson]

Mark- your example of maple color is not accurate for all maples due to the warm colored finish, probably some oil combination like Danish oil that contains quantities of BLO and varnishes. When maple is finished with clear finishes such as lacquer, Patrick's maple looks quite accurate on a color balanced monitor, and laptop screens are not a reliable color accurate duplicator in most cases. Some turners get too involved with constructing the ultimate photo set-up gadgets and forget the principle of KISS applies best.

[Steve Busey]

shutter priority mode F/5.6 iso-100 1/4 sec. exposure That's a real long exposure. Can you move to higher wattage/lumen bulbs? F/5.6 at 1/4s indicates a pretty low light situation.

[Scott Hackler]

Very interesting information in this thread. A lot of it goes 180 degrees away from what I had read and have been using for my shots. I guess I will start from scratch and see if I can improve upon my photos. Generally I shoot in a tent(homemade), #39 graduated background, two 75 equilvilant CFL, F22, ISO200, 1 second exposure and I thought the photos were 100% in focus with accurate color / illumination / contrast. ??????

[Mark Levitski]

Conscensus seems to be that the color's pretty accurate in your photos, Patrick. I guess it's a paler piece of wood and/or you're using a finish that doesn't add any color whatsoever. They're right about the finishes on my two examples--Waterlox Original. It does add some warmer color.


If we are speaking of producing photos that "sell" or represent one's work (for instance, to send to a juried art show or to a gallery), then IMO pieces created or photos of such with little of the warmth of the wood will not help your cause. It's obvious to us, in our experience with the public walking into our art show booth, or gallery owners looking at our work, that they are wowed by the grain, the pop of the figure, and the beauty of the wood's highlights. With some wood, you will have to do little with to show it off. Other pieces need some help to bring out the best in it. There are some woodworkers who, with some species, will not use some of the clear finishes such as lacquers and water-based products because they add no warmth. Some use them because the like some of their other features but actually add colorants to make them like an oil-based product. If one is not careful though, you can quickly go to far the other way (i.e., overly yellowed or darkened), and the people do pick up on that too.


By the way, my wife and I both like the form of your bowl. Nice work.

[Don Kondra]

With all due respect Mark, you might like the results better if you place your focus point just below the lip at the front of the bowl.

I've also found with maple sometimes the best option is manual focus :)

Cheers, Don

[Scott Hackler]

Don, when using manual focus.... do you apply a lot more light on the piece so you can clearly see the piece for focusing and then turn those extra lights off? I have tried to use manual focus but I have not had much luck trying to focus in lower light.

[Don Kondra]

Hi Scott,

When I was shooting with continuous lights I was using 85w CFL bulbs, no problem "seeing" to focus :)

In this case the shop lights are OFF.

http://www.alzodigital.com/online_store/light_bulbs_compact_fluorescent-daylight.htm

With strobes the modeling lights plus shop lights provide enough illumination to focus and with flash the shop lights have no effect on the shot.

If you are using lower powered lights I would use a 500w, etc. work light to focus and then turn it off.

Cheers, Don

[Mark Levitski]

Thanks, Don...........yep, I use manual focus for most shots.

[Ken Hill]

Focus about 1/3 of the way into the item...not on the leading edge. It appears in Marks images of the bowl the auto focus picked up the rear of the rim....probably due to higher contrast which is what your cameras use to help it focus. Read your manuals folks...and a few hours on basic photography will help you a ton.

[Mark Levitski]

Thanks, guys. Since I don't take notes for each photo, I'm not sure about the one phototent shot of mine that you are referring to (the one in the shop was a handheld, all auto quickie). However, many of my photos were taken w/o tripod and no remote or delay for shutter. Shame on me, but with a day job and production with turnings, I shortcut it a lot. I try to glean as much as I can to help me in the photo dept. from the manual and forums like this. Thank you all for the input...........Mark

[Don Kondra]

Not to be a smart a** Mark but are you aware of exif data ?

Each photo you take will have the shooting settings information embedded in the file.

Cheers, Don

[Mark Levitski]

No, Don, not aware.Will learn about it, thanks. But it wouldn't be able to tell me if I used a tripod or let the camera move on shutter release or not. I guess an educated eye can easily pick that up just by looking, eh?

By the way, don't worry. I'm looking for the smart without the a**, so your replies are fine :).

Mark