Stout Hardware for Tail Vise

[Gary Curtis]

A little search on this forum turned up rather old threads about the Benchcrafted vise assembly. Benchcrafted refers their equipment as a "Tail Vise". When in fact it is a Wagon Vise.

Making the wood parts for my Tail Vise (Lee Valley hardware) was the most challenging part of building my bench. Crazy me, I'd like to do it all over again. This time with a 4-5" top and heavier hardware on the Tail Vise. I would also like to put an "L" leg on the Tail Vise. But I can't get out of my mind the handiness of the Benchcrafted iron parts. The 1 1/4" acme thread, the large handwheel.

Has anyone adapted that hardware to a true Tail Vise? Not a Wagon type?

[Martin Shupe]

You might want to look at Lie Nielsen's tail vise hardware. I am told it is very stout.

[David Weaver]

If you can well, drill and tap, you can probably make whatever you want for not too much money. Imported threaded rod and handwheels are available at the machinist supply places, and often with a matching nut or retaining hardware.

[Gary Curtis]

So, you are saying I should do a bit of machining? My neighbor is a machinist. He fettled all my hand planes for me. I guess I could dissemble my Lee Valley tail vise, give it to him and tell him to scale it up by 25% and put a 4" handwheel on the end of the Acme screw rod.

Can you think of any refinements that might improve things?

[Curt Putnam]

Why is it that you want a "tail" vise as opposed to a "wagon" vise? What is the functionality difference that is causing this shift? I'm not arguing; I'm just learning about such nuances and would appreciate your thoughts.

[Rick Fisher]

I have the Lee Valley tail vice.. I really like the quick release.. Its very solid .. seems heavily built.. The Jaws I installed are about 3-1/2 wide x 6" deep.. no problem at all..

What I really like is how easy it is to install .. if you follow the instructions and flip the table top.. .. otherwise its a 2 person job. .

[Jim Koepke]

Why is it that you want a "tail" vise as opposed to a "wagon" vise? What is the functionality difference that is causing this shift? I'm not arguing; I'm just learning about such nuances and would appreciate your thoughts.

I can't answer for the OP, but a wagon vise seems to be a limited way to hold one's work on top of the bench.

Other tail vises, depending on configuration, allow pieces to be held vertically for cutting dovetails or tenons.

Don't get me wrong, a wagon vise is a consideration for my bench. For what it does, it may be the best for the job. I just like the options that other vises allow.

jtk

[Gary Curtis]

Carl, I hope this answer also addresses what Jim asks. I prefer a tail vise because I can clamp wood on the front edge, straight up (almost any size) and in an "L" leg off the bench end. The Wagon Vise makes a whole lot of sense due its mechanical strength. But is limited to clamping with dogs or to relatively skinny pieces clamped vertically. It would require forethought to consider how to clamp boards. Way too much time.

I want to cut dovetails and tenons. I already own the Lee Valley tail vise. unless I am missing something, it is not a quick release device. Purchased in 2005. For the reasons stated, and due to the handle and screw dimension, it is annoying to crank in & crank out.

[Mike Holbrook]

I am making plans to build a Rubo bench myself. I think the main use of a tail vise is to clamp boards for surface planing. The issue can be that too much pressure from the vise will bow the board, creating a whole new set of problems. I thought a wide double screw vise or Moxon Vise built to clamp to the top of the bench were preferable ways to clamp tenons or dovetails? Derek Cohen designed a work support to go with his Moxon vise that enables it to function like a bench on bench, elevating the work to a preferable height for this kind of work. Benchcrafted also makes hardware for Moxon Vises. I am thinking about leaving the tail vise off and going with a Moxon.

[Gary Curtis]

I did a little further research following the helpful advise here. I thought my criteria (delusions?) would be met if I could take the solid hardware made by Benchcrafter and mount it sideways so it would power a Tail Vise instead of a Wagon Vise. They said that it was improbable and furthermore, none of their customers have done it.

So, out goes the appeal of 1 1/4" Acme thread powering the vise. I then asked them if I could purchase the hand wheel as a part and marry it to a Leigh Neilsen TV assembly. Then I would have the benefit at least of a 1 1/8" acme thread. They said no. They don't sell parts alone, and advised me to stick with the handle that comes with the LN hardware. Handwheels bring a new set of demands to these applications.

So, I'm a bit torn. Part of me wants the flexibility of clamping in a Tail Vise. Part of me wants the obvious mechanical advantages of the BenchCrafted Wagon Vise. Perhaps the answer lies outside this choice. It might be possible to fabricate a few fixtures or jigs to work with the Wagon Vise and thereby get it to clamp in improvised ways.

The Moxon Vise seems like a solution to the frustration of vises where the screw gets in the way. My main vise (on the left side) will be a Leg Vise, so that isn't a problem I face.

[Mike Holbrook]

Gary, you might want to check out Chris Schwarz's DVD The Workbench, How to Design or Modify a Bench for Efficient Use. It addresses the three major functions of a workbench, preparing surfaces, edges & end grain. He discusses different ways to approach these three challenges on a well designed bench, which has largely to do with vises. Chris demonstrates a few bench jigs that are easy to make and quite functional. I just have the DVD but I think there is also a book. There is some good information on his Blog page too.

[Ron Brese]

The BenchCrafted wagon vise works well with their Glide leg vise because the few task the wagon vise won't perform can be done rather easily in the leg vise. This is an often overlooked aspect of these vises. I also prefer the wagon vise for holding panels. It is held rigid and contained in the bench top in lieu of hanging on the side and the panel never moves. Just my 2 cents.

Ron

[Salem Ganzhorn]

I built a bench based off the benchcrafted hardware early this year. The wagon vise is limited but it works so well for it's intended task. Very fast, very smooth, tenacious grip when using suede. I also like that I can still pound on the right side of my bench without worry of sag in the tail vise.

When I want to cut tenons or dovetails I use the leg vise on the other side of the bench.
Salem

[Gary Curtis]

Mike, I own Chris Schwarz' workbench book. The Wagon Vise discussion is distributed through the book, and I'm struggling to get a concept of how I would use it. Thanks to all of you for your comments. Maybe the best clue is when Ron said that some of the intended tasks could be shifted to the leg vise. I hadn't thought of that before : do some of the smaller jobs on ends of boards in the Leg Vise. It opens up new possibilities.

[Ron Brese]

In my bench I can clamp boards up to 13" wide vertically in my wagon vise making them easily available to layout and saw dovetails and other joinery. At present I'm using a stool to adjust my working height so that I don't have to bend over. I'll do this at least until I get a Moxon vise kit from BenchCrafted. I can also clamp boards across the bench between dogs for cross cutting.

Ron

[Gary Curtis]

13 inches? That is impressive. At the moment I am reading the Schwarz book again (the 3rd time) to understand. The author moves from one process to the next. But that minimizes space for a summation of each bench fixture with pluses and minuses so the reader can evaluate. I may go to the Library to see if his Videos are available.

I want an image in my mind how that right corner of the bench will operate for me. I don't seem to be getting it from the book alone. Probably just me. This is no criticism of Chris as a writer. To the contrary, he interjects objectivity and real-world needs that are sadly lacking in many woodworking discussions. And he approaches it logically. But his book throws a lot of choices at the reader and I would like more detail than his book provides. A little more about different variants of Tail Vises (shoulders, or L's are barely mentioned) and more about Wagon Vises.

I'll seek out the video.

[Mike Holbrook]

The video seemed to me to be a sort of summary of Chris' thoughts on how to do tasks best/fastest/simplest on a workbench. I have a copy of Hand Tool Essentials which has a chapter on building a Rubo bench done by Chris. The guy has built a bunch of benches and I am sure the information and suggestions have been pruned during the process. In this article Chris mentions that you do not have to add all the accessories to have a working bench. He actually suggests: "In fact, you may want to try this bench in its purest form first: a crochet, planing stop and holdfast holes. You can accomplish every major workholding task with this setup and a single clamp."

I guess if you have Chris' job you are required to try just about everything and write about it. I think " The Anarchist's Tool Chest " may be his best work as he whittles things down to bare bones, even for a hand tool geek.

[Gary Curtis]

Here's a refinement of my questions and thoughts. I typically use a bench as an adjunct to working with power machines. I saw a board a bit long on a tablesaw and want to lop off 1.5 inches by hand. I go to that little flip-up saw stop on the right side of the bench.

Or, I've plowed a length of plywood for biscuits and want to trim the overall board a bit. If it is the width, I'll run it through the tablesaw. But it needs 1/2" off the length, my choice would be using a hand saw off on the benchtop. That sort of preferences is just habit in my shop. And I always find myself gravitating to the right hand front corner. Right where a Tail Vise would be.