When do you throw away the bath water?

[Mike Cruz]

After roughing a bowl out, I throw that baby into DNA. Lately, it's looking more like really dirty bath water. Actually more like coffee...:o Anyway, as I understand it, the way DNA works is that it pushes out the water/moisture in the wood and replaces that water with itself. Eventually, don't you end up with more water than DNA in your bucket?

So, what do you do?

1) Keep adding more DNA to the mix.
2) Throw away the old stuff at "some point", and start anew.
3) I don't need no stinkin' DNA!

[David E Keller]

I add to the soup, but lately I find myself avoiding the DNA all together.

[charlie knighton]

have never used dna, tried boiling, tried kiln, liked cardboard barrel

[Jack Mincey]

Don't use it. I feel that if you turn wood that is free of hidden checks without the pith to a uniform thickness and simply place in a brown paper bag to dry is all that one needs in the area I live. Being patient is the secret in this method. I have around 100 bowls and HF's dry waiting to be finished right now so it will be a year or more before I get around to returning a green bowl anyway. I don't know of any of the big name turners that use DNA for drying their bowls. I've only lost two bowls to cracks over the last couple years and in both cases every bowl turned from the log cracked. One of these had checks in it when I turned it so it was no surprise and the other one was from beach which is the only time I ever turned it. One other thing that I've noticed is that wood from very large trees say 40" dia are more are more stable as they dry as a rule. I do realize that if I lived in a dry climate that drying the rough outs might have to be done in different way.
Happy Turning,
Jack

[Peter Elliott]

At some point in the 100's of DNA threads here someone (with experience) mentioned that the color did not effect the outcome on any wood species. I wonder about evaporation. Water is heavier than alchohol so the water would sit lower in the bath not evaporating. I guess it would become diluted enough to not be as efficient? I know that has been discussed too. I wonder if you had marked your container when you got the new DNA and would see a rise in level. But how much water would it take to effect 5 gallons of DNA. My guess is a lot..

[Prashun Patel]

I asked this very question a month or so ago. The conclusion I found is that it just doesn't matter. The color doesn't matter, and the water % doesn't matter. So now, I just keep using it.

In fact, lately I've been using a hybrid drying approach: 24 hour soak in DNA, 1hour air dry, then Anchorseal and shelf it.

The DNA cleans it, (I'm hoping) debugs it, and also accellerates the removal of any pungent odors from stuff like oak or spalted box elder.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I used it for a long time and just kept adding but as of the last year I date and coat the pieces entirely with anchorseal. I talked with Mike Mahoney at two of his demo's. He lives in Utah and says his climate is very dry which is about the same here in western kansas. He said the method of covering the entire piece and putting them in a cool place near the floor has worked best for him so I decided to give it a try. I have a place that is fairly cool year round. I stack them on the floor to dry. I have about 75 to 80 bowls, vases, lidded boxes, etc that are in various stages of drying and so far no cracks in any of them. When I return a bowl or whatever to the lathe I try to rough out 2 or 3 more to replace it in the drying corner. As Jack said and I agree a lot of it depends on the climate.

[Scott Hackler]

I am still in the "uses Dna" camp, for 90% of my turnings. Reason being that it works very well for me and its faster than the other methods .....for ME. I just add more Dna as needed in my bucket. I have thought about throwing it out and starting with some new, but I figure that if the smell of alcohol is still very strong, its still strong enough for the soak.

The whole Dna arguement is a funny thing. If I was a production bowl turner or the majority of my forms were bowls, I don't know if I wouldn't just anchorseal them and store them for a year, but I don't doo all that many bowls and becuase of the creative juices flowing, I need that particular form to get dry for a return to the lathe as fast as possible. 3-4 weeks is a resonable average for my stuff to be dry and that works better for the impatient turner! :)

[Roger Chandler]

Mike,

My understanding is that coloration does not really matter...........just keep adding from time to time [when it has evaporated] some fresh DNA to the mix and you will be good to go.

[Tony De Masi]

I've used the same DNA bucket for almost five years now and have never thrown any of it out. I just keep adding to the mix stricly by feel. Meaning, when I feel it needs more I just add more. Have I lost bowls to cracking/checking using this method? Sure I have. Two in five years and both were apple wood when I didn't realize that they needed longer than the 24 hours I usually soak an item for.

[Steve Schlumpf]

I use the DNA method because it is something that seems to work for me. I live less than 1/4 mile from Lake Superior and the humidity levels here are usually pretty high. The DNA works, but in all honesty, back when I was having trouble getting green wood to dry without checking, I was very new in turning and really didn't do a very good job at turning forms with a consistent thickness. Now that I have started to venture into larger forms, have a little more turning experience under my belt, I may try some other methods and see what else works.

[Greg Just]

I don't do too many bowls, but when I do I use the dishwashing soap method. Workd pretty well for me.

[Ben Hatcher]

... Water is heavier than alchohol so the water would sit lower in the bath not evaporating....

Water and DNA form a solution. One will not sink below the other.

[Mike Cruz]

I guess my thought is that every time I put a bowl in, it soaks up DNA and leaves water. I can keep putting in more DNA, but more water will be dispersed from the green wood, and never really leaves... I understand what you guys are doing and that it works, but in Dan's honor, I guess I'm looking for a little "why?" here.

Seems to me, that the water content would just keep building up over time...

Oh, and the color thing...yeah, I get it that it won't make a difference. That was more of an EEEEEWWWW moment... One reason to start anew might be that my DNA bath REEKS of that smelly maple I had gotten... No more thowing THAT stuff in there. Anchorseal for the rest of that wood, for sure.

Scott, I'm right there with ya! I don't turn enough to wait 6 months or so to return a piece. Not to mention, I've picked up a lot of wood from folks that I promised a bowl out of for them. I want to get those done quicker. Some day, when I am turning a LOT more, I will be fortunate enough to be able to wait...

[Baxter Smith]

Have never tried DNA so I never have to add to it.;):) Waiting a year or so by using paperbags or anchorseal does result in me forgetting what I had planned. I doubt only having to wait three weeks would change that.:)

[Noah Barfield]

When the baby is no longer in it. Sorry, couldn't resist!

Noah

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

I use DNA whenever I want to shorten the drying process. As my liquid has been used a lot, it has darkened quite a bit. It still works perfectly but when I throw in light colored material, I expect some darkening. It turns away in the second turning process.
faust

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Mike
Could not use a Hydrometer to check the specific gravity of your ethyl alcohol? You might take a look at alcohol hydrometers, or this link for H2O-alcohol ratio. Tom http://www.avogadro-lab-supply.com/content.php?content_id=2

[Mike Cruz]

Brilliant, Tom. Don't know why I didn't think of that... Must be because I've been out of school for so long that I forget that there are math equations and scientific experiements that can answer my questions! I think I'll go pick a hydrometer up and do a little testing. Now...where to find one. I'll start on Amazon... Thanks.

[Prashun Patel]

IMHO, you'd spend yr money better on a lumber moisture meter. You really care about the final moisture content of the wood - not the alcohol. Even if you were able to control the ethanol water content, you'd still find that different woods require different drying times and possibly different techniques. You can also use the moisture meter on your flatwork (oops, did I say that ;))

[Jim Slovik]

I keep my DNA in my unheated pole barn garage. In the dead of winter, the water in the DNA turns slushy. I skim the slush off and assume that my DNA to water ratio has improved.

[Rich Aldrich]

I just keep adding to it. I use it because I live between Lake Superior and Lake Michigan which makes the humidity levels high in the summer. In the winter, due to heating, the shop gets very dry. These varying effects are difficult to control, so the DNA method seems reasonable and works for me. Like Scott, I am a very impatient turner. I like to get to the conclusion so that I can learn and go to the next piece.

[Rich Aldrich]

Mike
Could not use a Hydrometer to check the specific gravity of your ethyl alcohol? You might take a look at alcohol hydrometers, or this link for H2O-alcohol ratio. Tom http://www.avogadro-lab-supply.com/content.php?content_id=2

Tom - excellent idea - use science to actually measure the quality.

[Mike Cruz]

Jim, that might be the best unscientific method I've heard. Of course, I'd hate to have to wait until winter to clean up my DNA, but at least it works in winter!

[Mike Willeson]

as of the last year I date and coat the pieces entirely with anchorseal.

How long does it take a piece entirely covered with anchorseal to dry?

[Keith E Byrd]

My limited experience with color was bad. I had a bucket of DNA that I soaked 3-4 walnut bowls in. A coupole of weeks later I through in a spalted box elder bowl that came out very brown- a very ugly brown. I now keep two buckets one for walnut the other for all other and have had no more problems.

[Mike Cruz]

Mike, about 6 months.

[Dan Hintz]

but in Dan's honor, I guess I'm looking for a little "why?" here.
<sniffle> I'm getting a little teary-eyed... my young padawan is learning to question the world around him :D

[Frank Hasty]

I believe what happens is that the alcohol is diluted by water in the wood by a process similar to if not actually osmosis. Therefore the specific gravity of the solution should change (alcohol is lighter than water), and that difference should show up on a hygrometer.
Therefore if you begin with say 100 % alcohol bath and soaked a piece of green wood for some period then the resulting water/alcohol solution now being more dense than straight alcohol would make the hygrometer float rise higher. If you continue soaking more wood in the same bath there would come a time when the solution was so close to that of the water in the green wood that it would take much longer to obtain a satisfactory result....if ever. Seems to me that additional alcohol is necessary and that the way to test the solution is with a hygrometer.

[Bill Wyko]

You guys have a drying problem? I live in Tucson, 30 miles from water & 3 feet from hell. Anchorseal it and throw it in the garage. It'll be ready in no time.