Crown Revolution Hollowing Tool - Anyone used it?

[Matt Owen]

Does anyone have any experience with the Crown Revolution hollowing tool? It looks similar to the Munro, but I'm not sure if it works as well. At that price, it looks very tempting. TIA.

Matt

http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/3541/crown-revolution-turning-system

[Peter Blair]

Verrrrry interesting Matt. Please keep us informed if you decide to go that way.
Ps. pricing looks really good.

Pete

[Jamie Donaldson]

Too hard to sharpen, the shaft is too short for all but very short vessels, too much torque when hollowing sideways, overpriced -what else would you like to know?

[Ryan Baker]

It says it comes with a 13" shaft, so I assume it telescopes into the handle and is just pulled in all the way in the picture. That could be a useful feature, along with the articulating head. The brass fitting "feature" doesn't seem like a good choice because of wear. It probably works OK (a direct competitor to the Munro and several others), though the price is high.

[John Keeton]

Lump this one in with all the other hand held hollowing tools, and the reality is that after you try 2-3 of them trying to find the magic bullet, you could have purchased a very nice articulated system - Monster, for instance, and not have wasted your money.

All of these straight handled tools will kick your butt while using them, and they all do pretty much the same thing. However, you are young and your elbows, wrists and shoulders are in much better shape than are mine. So, take my words with that in mind - just the ramblings of an old man that went through the same searching. Fortunately, my search was short and didn't involve a lot of money.

I have NEVER regretted spending the money for the Monster! However, if I were intent on not making that size expenditure, I would be much more likely to buy Dave Schweitzer's (D-Way Tools (http://www.d-waytools.com/tools-hollowing.html)) hollowing tool for about the same money as the one you are looking at. It has a D-bar that relieves the torque and a thickness gauge that actually works very well. I have seen this tool in action and was impressed - plus, Dave is a great turner and super nice guy.

As for cutters, you really don't need anything exotic - a simple piece of HSS will do the job quite well.

[Rick Markham]

+1 on the monster system being an excellent value, and money well spent from the get go. Some of us younger fellas have bad wrists already ;)

[John M. Smith]

I would have to agree with John on this. I have spent so much on various handhold followers, I could have saved money by waiting and buying a hollowing system from monster or one of the other similar ones.

[Jim Underwood]

Thanks for asking this question. I'm shopping for some kind of hollowing tools right now too... If notice if you buy three hollowing tools at $100+ each (straight, shallow goose-neck, deep goose-neck), you'll soon have spent enough to buy the mini-monster in the first place..

Can the mini-monster be adapted to a Jet 1642?
Not sure I wanna spend $400+ for the full sized rig...

What other alternatives are there?

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Matt,
I hollow by hand. I do it that way because I MUST BE NUTS. But that aside, if you don't own any hollowing tools at all and want to get your feet wet before you do buy a more expensive system, I suggest you buy any one of the basic tools with a pistol grip handle. The pistol grip (armbrace) helps control the torque. I would buy a straight bar that uses a 3/16" HHS/Cobalt bit and a gooseneck bar that fits the same armbrace. They are inexpensive. Pick up a copy of Mike Mahony's DVD on hollow forms. He describes all the styles available and actually demonstrates most of them.
faust

[John Keeton]

Jim, as I understand the Mini, the base is sized for a 12" swing vs. 16", and the hollowing bar is 5/8" vs. 4/4". There may be other differences of which I am not aware. When I bought mine, Randy encouraged me to buy the full size unit even though at the time I had the Delta 46-460 - I am glad I did.

There are multiple articulated and captured rigs out there, including Kobra, Lyle Jamison, and a new one by J T Turning, and perhaps others. The best approach is to be able to see these tools and use them hands on. I have done that with the Jamison and J T Turning, but not the Kobra. Rick owns both the Kobra and Monster, as I recall, and each of them has different features, with the Kobra being much more heavy duty. How that relates to function, Rick can comment. He previously posted a comparison, as I recall.

[Matt Owen]

I guess I should have been a little more descriptive with what I was planning to do with it. Sorry about that.

I have a home made articulated hollower as shown below.

213499

I was planning on ordering just the tool (sans handle) and use it with my hollower. It's $100 for that.

http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/3543/crown-revolution-turning-system

All I really want is the cutting tip with the depth-of-cut limiter as I can easily make my own boring bar to whatever size I want. However, I haven't seen that as an option.

There is also a swan neck tool for $40.

http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/3547/crown-revolution-turning-system

I have heard several people say that they really like their monster unit with the Munro cutter installed, and I was hoping I could do the same thing with the Crown system. I have tried hand held hollowing using a home made hollower similar to the Sorby, which is what led me to make my articulated unit. I just didn't have much control with the hand held hollower and it was pretty rough going.

Thanks for the help.

Matt

[Dick Strauss]

A friend has the Monster articulated system and really likes it. He has started turning lots of small hollow forms that would look strange with a larger opening. However, the Monster art. system cannot get under the shoulder through a hole less than 1.25-1.5" using the pivoting 1/4" cutter holder. So, he bought the Sorby articulated knuckle system (similar to the Crown one mentioned above) to help solve the problem. Only time will tell if it actually solves his issue. As good as the Monster articulated system is, even it has its limits.

[Jim Underwood]

Nice job on the rig Randy. Can one make that with a drill press and a hacksaw? And thanks for the clarification on what you wanted to use the hollowing tool for.

John, thanks for the info. If you do a Google search for hollowing tool systems, all kinds of stuff pops up... and you just don't know what to think. One tool that I have had my hands on is the Elbo tool from Highland Woodworking. (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/elbotoolhollowingtool.aspx) I don't have any comparison to any other systems, but it sure beats hand held hollowers...

[John Keeton]

However, the Monster art. system cannot get under the shoulder through a hole less than 1.25-1.5" using the pivoting 1/4" cutter holder. Dick, most of my forms have a 7/8" hole, and I have been able to reach just about anything I do with no more than a 1" hole.

Jim, I have not used the Elbo, but have seen it used in person. I was not impressed.

[Jim Underwood]

Why were you un-impressed with the Elbo tool? I wasn't going to say, since I had nothing to compare it with, but the cutting action seemed a bit on the rough side still. I'm assuming that whatever you were dissatisfied with, the monster tool rectified it?

[Scott Hackler]

Jim, I have also seen and touched the elbo and I second the vote for "not impressed". For me I wasn't impressed because its not a very heavily built set up and has a lot more flex than other articulated hollowers. I also am not a fan of any hollowing tool that is held in the tailstock. I dont care how tight you clamp it down, its still a round MT2 shaft in a round MT2 and a bad catch or number of small catches WILL start rotating the articulated portions.

I have also played around on the Gizmo from JT Tools and it is a fine piece of tool. Very sturdy and some folks here have commented that it is noticably heavier than the Monster setup, but it also cost more. The Kobra is the ultimate in articulated hollowing, but it is also built to order (with a long wait time) and easily the most expensive (see $1500 ish for a whole set up)

Now I have the Carter Hollow Roller set up and it is a nice hollowing setup that acts more like a captive system than articulated. I can go pretty deep without a problem, but the down side is I have to have a 1" hole minimum for the boring bar and there isnt (yet) a swan neck or smaller boring bars. I have to hand hollow the shoulders.

I would recommend a hand hollower FIRST, just so you understand how the process works and through that process you will get to understand what the tool is doing while inside the vessel. I have started turning a lot of palm sized HF and I have to hand hollow them. It is surprizing how you get "used to" the feel and touch to know what is going on in the inside of the piece. BTW, I use a 3 piece B Best el cheapo hollwoing set and they aren't too bad for the small stuff.

[John Keeton]

Why were you un-impressed with the Elbo tool? I wasn't going to say, since I had nothing to compare it with, but the cutting action seemed a bit on the rough side still. I'm assuming that whatever you were dissatisfied with, the monster tool rectified it?Jim, Scott has identified many of the issues I saw, and overall, I felt the machining looked as though it had been built in someone's garage vs. a machine shop. The Monster is light enough in weight to make it easy to handle - one hand easily - and the machining is absolutely top notch. To me, that spells tight tolerances and a well built unit. The Monster is effortless to use, the bearings are smooth, and the design is simple, yet well conceived. It just looks like a lot of planning went into it. It is simple to adjust, and easy to move around on the ways to achieve any desired "angle of attack"

Like Scott, I felt the unit from J T Turning was well made, too, and would be a close second for me were the price the same for similar features.

I failed to mention that at AAW, I also used the Carter unit (probably the same time as Scott) and for a captured unit I felt it was well made and easy enough to use. However, there were some features I did not care for. It seems a little more cumbersome to set up, uses the banjo for part of the unit and a separate rest is required - part of the setup. I did not care for the cutter choices, though I imagine one could adapt some cutter heads for it. I like being able to hold the cutting/boring bar on the Monster close to the work, as I can feel what is going on. The Carter tool is held with both hands in normal use. Finally, I like the laser attachment better on the Monster and it is part of the price - not an optional purchase.

[Matt Owen]

Can one make that with a drill press and a hacksaw? And thanks for the clarification on what you wanted to use the hollowing tool for.

One probably can, but I'm not that one. :D

I used a milling machine to bore the holes for the bearings to get a good fit. Also, I used a welder to weld the tool base together. That was easier than drilling & tapping up through the bottom of the base.

Some of the pieces for construction details can be seen here:

http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/mmowen78/General Woodworking/Articulated Hollower/ (http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/mmowen78/General%20Woodworking/Articulated%20Hollower/)

[Neil Longhenry]

I am gathering information on hollowing systems. Seems like the Monster gets a lot of press. I did look at Jamieson System at the AAW show in St. Paul. Is the Jamieson captive type of systems considered old school? Are the articulated styles taking over? Looking for comments to put into my idea book.
Thanks

[Jamie Donaldson]

The articulated systems are a generation more advanced in design and use(as well as cost) in my opinion, and I learned to hand hollow from David Ellsworth in 1991. One big aspect that is often overlooked is ease of sharpening the cutters, and the shaft size of the tool holder that will be extended past the tool rest. To extend more than 6~8" I would recommend a shaft diameter of no less than 3/4," and if any further the flex and resulting chatter will not be conducive to having a good time hollowing! I might add that my years of hand held hollowing have contributed to 2 elbow surgeries for tendonitis!

[Dick Strauss]

John,
Now that you mention it, his wife was in the room. Maybe he told me that in front of his wife for obvious reasons ...;)?