Potentially dumb question on low angle planes

[Gary Herrmann]

I've noticed that LV sells a low angle jack and a smoother. I think LN has a low angle jack, smoother and jointer.

I still don't have a bench plane (haven't gotten around to tuning up the old rusty jack I was given).

So, can low angle planes, take the place of traditional bench planes? Why or why not?

Thanx.

[Louis Bois]

Low angle planes have the versatility of acting as different planes based on the cutting angle of the blade you put in them. You'll notice that Lee Valley sells optional blades for each of the models you mentioned.

The bed angle on standard bench planes is typically 45 degrees, while on most low angle planes, the bed angle is 12 degrees. Since the blade is placed "bevel up" on low angle planes, you can grind any angle you want on the blade to get the desired effect.

The standard bevel angle on the low angle planes seems to be about 25 degrees giving you an attack angle of 37 degrees (12 + 25). If you want your plane to act as a smoother, you simple grind a steeper angle on the bevel of the blade, ie, 33 deg to give you a combined angle of 12 + 33 = 45. This would make the plane cut at effectively the same angle as a standard bench plane.

You've probably noticed that the LV low angle jack plane is a very popular plane on this forum (as well as others) and this is mainly due to its versatility. Most people buy 2 different blades when they order the plane to make the change between cutting angles fast and easy.

Hope this helps.

[Marc Hills]

So, can low angle planes, take the place of traditional bench planes? Why or why not?

Hi Gary:

I'll preface this by saying that aside from some low angle blocks, I don't actually own any LA bench planes. But apparently low angle smoothers can take the place of traditional ones. I think perhaps we're seeing a quiet revolution in modern hand tools with LN and Veritas spearheading a renaissance for this once limited purpose tool.

One of keys that allow low angle bench planes to work for such a wide variety of smoothing tasks is probably the build precision of these modern tools, allowing such narrow throat openings. A traditional shortcoming of the low angle bench plane has been that its low angle of attack had a tendency to lift and tear off wood fibers when planing with the grain. The very feature that made them so effective in trimming tough end grain limited their usefulness in normal smoothing operations. But a very tight throat on the modern versions allows the plane body to hold the wood fiber down almost all the way up to the point where the blade is cutting the wood. This causes the shaving to chip up, without tearing up extra, uncut fibers.

The other key, one that Veritas in particular is promoting, is the use of a second blade, with a much steeper (more oblique) bevel. The steeper bevel, oriented bevel up on a low angle bench plane, offers the same effective cutting angle as a traditional smoother with a blade bedded at 45 deg with the bevel down.

One tool, with two blades, apparently makes the low angle bench plane capable of handling all but the most demanding smoothing tasks.

HTH,

[Mike Holbrook]

Yes, in fact you can even go further and make the LA planes 50's, York Pitch, suppose to be the best angel for very difficult grain. I believe the extra blades that you can order from Lee Valley come ground for York Pitch. I keep a 37 LA and a 50 York for my LA Block and Jack planes. The 45 is a kinda compromise so I skip it and go for the best for soft & end grain, 37 and the best for tough grain, 50.

[Michael Perata]

Gary

I have both a L-N #164 (LA) and L-N #4 1/2. They both work nicely but I think I prefer the #4 1/2. Both of these planes have adjustable mouths - The #164 block plane style and the #4 1/2 frog style.

I tried a L-N #7 1/2 (LA Jointer) and returned it because the mouth is NOT adjustable. I would not recommend a bench/LA style plane without an adjustable mouth.

[Gary Herrmann]

I think I'm getting a LV gift certificate as a gift soon. Think I'll pick up a LA Jack with the HA blade. Maybe even one of those plane sacks...

[Clay Craig]

It might be worth holding on to that GC for juuust a little bit. Rob Lee has said that - very shortly - Veritas is going to come out with a slightly modified line of bevel-up (low-angle bedding) planes, all of which will take interchangeable irons. So, you could have three lengths of plane bodies (smoother/jack/jointer), with three angles ground on the different irons (say 25/32/40?), and since they will all be interchangeable, this will allow 9 different configurations with only three planes.

My recollection is that the currently-absent part of this new 'line' is due out in April/May ... I just don't remember which current models will be altered to 'fit,' and which (one?) will remain as currently configured, but that info has been released.

Clay

[Wendell Wilkerson]

My recollection is that the currently-absent part of this new 'line' is due out in April/May ... I just don't remember which current models will be altered to 'fit,' and which (one?) will remain as currently configured, but that info has been released.

Clay

On WoodCentral, Rob Lee posted that LV will be introducing a Heavy LA smoother and and LA jointer that will share the 2-1/4" sized blade of the current LA jack plane they offer. The Heavy smoother is due out this spring (April) and the jointer is suppose to be released this summer (July). He posted links to some renderings of the planes also:

Heavy LA Smoother (http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/heavy_smooth.jpg)
LA Jointer (http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/lajoin.jpg)

Wendell

[Gary Herrmann]

So do you guys think there will be a new LA Jack, or will the existing Jack work with the new LA smoother and jointer? Based on Wendell's post I think I'm reading that the Jack should match the new ones, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

I appreciate the tip on the new planes. And if the Jack won't work, I will hold off.

[Wendell Wilkerson]

So do you guys think there will be a new LA Jack, or will the existing Jack work with the new LA smoother and jointer? Based on Wendell's post I think I'm reading that the Jack should match the new ones, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

I appreciate the tip on the new planes. And if the Jack won't work, I will hold off.

Everything I've read indicates that LV is making the new LA smoother and jointer to match the blade width of the existing LA jack plane. It is my understanding that the current LA smoother will still be made which is why they are referring to the new smoother as a "Heavy LA Smoother". The new smoother is heavier and wider sort of like the difference betweem a #4 and a #4-1/2 bench plane.
If you're interested in the LA planes, I would buy the jack plane first. It has machined sides so you can use it on a shooting board. With extra blades, it is a very versatile plane. I have one that I got last summer. I haven't used it much but it was pretty easy to adjust and use.

Wendell

[Derek Cohen]

Gary

Here is the article I wrote on LA planes. It may help answer your query.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~derekcohen/reviews/stanley/

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Scoggins]

Gary,

This is a timely question for me too. I've been exploring the options regarding low-angle bench planes trying to make the right decision on "best bang for my buck."

Wendell,

I had read about the new LA smoother coming out in a couple of different forums, but couldn't remember exactly where. I hadn't got around to searching on WC yet. Thanks for posting this information.

I really applaud the concept that LV is about to launch with the introduction of the new LA planes. It seems to me they are on the cutting edge of providing products that make a lot of sense for the end user and giving the customer what he/she really wants. The idea of interchangeable blades among various models is very appealing and makes a lot of sense to me. This is preferable, as opposed to being “nickeled and dimed” (I know, inflation has made this term practically irrelevant, but you know what I mean) with one-size-fits-one-model type designs without a really valid reason.

Rob Lee, if you happen to see this, thanks for implementing such innovative ideas. I appreciate it.

Mike

[Gary Herrmann]

Derek, that was a very well written article. Thanks for the link. I think my LA Jack should be here in 4 or 5 days.

[Gene Collison]

Gary,

This is a timely question for me too. I've been exploring the options regarding low-angle bench planes trying to make the right decision on "best bang for my buck."

Wendell,

I had read about the new LA smoother coming out in a couple of different forums, but couldn't remember exactly where. I hadn't got around to searching on WC yet. Thanks for posting this information.

I really applaud the concept that LV is about to launch with the introduction of the new LA planes. It seems to me they are on the cutting edge of providing products that make a lot of sense for the end user and giving the customer what he/she really wants. The idea of interchangeable blades among various models is very appealing and makes a lot of sense to me. This is preferable, as opposed to being “nickeled and dimed” (I know, inflation has made this term practically irrelevant, but you know what I mean) with one-size-fits-one-model type designs without a really valid reason.

Rob Lee, if you happen to see this, thanks for implementing such innovative ideas. I appreciate it.

Mike

Mike,

Just so that you know, Lie-Nielsen will also supply blades ground to any angle the user wants. It is not a LV exclusive in any sense of the word. You can also do it very easily yourself, it is only necessary to steepen the angle to the desired one on the first 1/16" of the blade and your done. A few minutes is all it takes.

Gene